Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
I need to order a couple K20s
Hey, anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
I need to order a couple K20s
Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
- Thread starter Silas Pradetto
- Start date
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
Hello Silas,
Since you have the shop and have experience builing boxes....how's about some of the Welter subs? they're pretty small and have high output.
Hammer
Hello Silas,
Since you have the shop and have experience builing boxes....how's about some of the Welter subs? they're pretty small and have high output.
Hammer
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
~:-D~:grin: .
Yep, 18KW each would really hurt anyone within 100 feet of them subs
~:-D~:grin: .
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
I built something nearly identical to one back in the day, probably even before Art did, but I was unimpressed. The box is now sitting as Adrian's nightstand and the woofers went on to do something else.
I'm sure that 8 of them would thump, and the fact that they're not that good at the top end of their range doesn't matter much to me, since my mains are solid down to 80Hz or below. I have added them to my mental list of 'subs for consideration'.
Thanks!
I built something nearly identical to one back in the day, probably even before Art did, but I was unimpressed. The box is now sitting as Adrian's nightstand and the woofers went on to do something else.
I'm sure that 8 of them would thump, and the fact that they're not that good at the top end of their range doesn't matter much to me, since my mains are solid down to 80Hz or below. I have added them to my mental list of 'subs for consideration'.
Thanks!
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
Yep, there's a little button for it in the formatting bar. Looks like a 35mm film strip, to the left of the quote button and the right of the picture button.
Yep, there's a little button for it in the formatting bar. Looks like a 35mm film strip, to the left of the quote button and the right of the picture button.
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
when I use it, it pops up the video code with the url in it but nothing shows in the post.
when I use it, it pops up the video code with the url in it but nothing shows in the post.
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
Different designs all have their own advantages.
FLH (front loaded horn) designs like the LABsub probably have the most efficiency in multiples.
TH (tapped horn) designs have slightly less efficiency, but do not require multiple units to get low frequency extension.
BR (bass reflex designs) and bandpass designs can be made smaller than the above, using more speakers and more amp power can put out more level per truck space.
I have been using my new Keystone TH subs rather than the BR Lab 12s
http://www.soundforums.net/live/thr...N-Dual-Lab12-(Front-Loaded)-by-Welter-Systems
now for a while.
One Keystone outperforms 2 of the Lab 12 ported subs, in exactly the same truck space.
For what it’s worth, four of the dual Lab 12 cabinets using only a pair of Crest CA-9 to drive them have more output at 40 Hz than eight Meyers 650P dual 18 cabinets .
I have no doubt that a pair of the Keystone 18 cabinets with a bit more power would outperform a LABsub, and take up about the same truck space.
The Keystone 18 using the BC18SW115-4 has almost the same phase and magnitude response as the DSL TH-118s that Langston Holland uses, though his are loaded with the 18 Sound NLW9600-4.
Plans for the Keystone are in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/185588-keystone-sub-using-18-15-12-inch-speakers.html
Don't forget the bracing!
More information in these threads:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/184992-tapped-horn-vs-bass-reflex-case-study.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/184986-horn-extender-wave-guide-th.html
Art Welter
Silas,
Different designs all have their own advantages.
FLH (front loaded horn) designs like the LABsub probably have the most efficiency in multiples.
TH (tapped horn) designs have slightly less efficiency, but do not require multiple units to get low frequency extension.
BR (bass reflex designs) and bandpass designs can be made smaller than the above, using more speakers and more amp power can put out more level per truck space.
I have been using my new Keystone TH subs rather than the BR Lab 12s
http://www.soundforums.net/live/thr...N-Dual-Lab12-(Front-Loaded)-by-Welter-Systems
now for a while.
One Keystone outperforms 2 of the Lab 12 ported subs, in exactly the same truck space.
For what it’s worth, four of the dual Lab 12 cabinets using only a pair of Crest CA-9 to drive them have more output at 40 Hz than eight Meyers 650P dual 18 cabinets .
I have no doubt that a pair of the Keystone 18 cabinets with a bit more power would outperform a LABsub, and take up about the same truck space.
The Keystone 18 using the BC18SW115-4 has almost the same phase and magnitude response as the DSL TH-118s that Langston Holland uses, though his are loaded with the 18 Sound NLW9600-4.
Plans for the Keystone are in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/185588-keystone-sub-using-18-15-12-inch-speakers.html
Don't forget the bracing!
More information in these threads:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/184992-tapped-horn-vs-bass-reflex-case-study.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/184986-horn-extender-wave-guide-th.html
Art Welter
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
Yah but that's no fun. The 21's are the bomb and I can't wait to see what some of the low end cork sniffers on this board have to say about them when faced with 4 or more. I guess I'm the only guy here that's had that experience. Anyone else out there that has heard multiples of the 21" Ramsdell Sub Engine?? represent:lol:
The 18" version is 22.5" and quite a bit lighter.
Yah but that's no fun. The 21's are the bomb and I can't wait to see what some of the low end cork sniffers on this board have to say about them when faced with 4 or more. I guess I'm the only guy here that's had that experience. Anyone else out there that has heard multiples of the 21" Ramsdell Sub Engine?? represent:lol:
Good to see you. Art!
Art. I was just thinking about you today when I saw the EAW thread. Good to see you are still lurking
Art. I was just thinking about you today when I saw the EAW thread. Good to see you are still lurking
Re: Good to see you. Art!
I had no problem using my 6 SRX718 in warehouse with 500 people and Go-Go music; granted the breaker did trip often (on the deep bass drops on the sampler pad).
Have you looked at dB Technologies offerings, with the DVA S20 & DVA S30?
But if it was me, I'd stock up on the SRX718s or SRX728 (better for stacking multiple tops).
I had no problem using my 6 SRX718 in warehouse with 500 people and Go-Go music; granted the breaker did trip often (on the deep bass drops on the sampler pad).
Have you looked at dB Technologies offerings, with the DVA S20 & DVA S30?
But if it was me, I'd stock up on the SRX718s or SRX728 (better for stacking multiple tops).
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
So Silas, how about 8 SRX728's?
Evan
So Silas, how about 8 SRX728's?
Evan
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
728's don't fit his size constraints.
728's don't fit his size constraints.
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
Or power consumption requirements.
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
At this point, I think I'm guaranteed to build more LAB subs in the future. For now, I need something smaller to get me by until that day comes, and those smaller subs should be able to take care of my smaller shows.
Last night, I saw ATL at the Oakdale with Ace Audio's VT4888 rig (6/side groundstacked
) with 8 SRX728S subs. The subs definitely did the job in the room, which had about 2000 people in it and was relatively shallow (and domed, much to Evan's dismay).
Evan was obviously hitting the sub limiter all night, but from what I heard, I'd say 4 LAB subs would keep up with the 8 SRX728S pretty easily. In fact, I was going to bring down my LABs to supplement the SRX but things didn't quite work out.
@Steve, the SRX728S don't fit the 22.5" dimension, but I could pack 33" items two wide in the trailer. In that case, the SRX718S would fit.
@Ron, you are absolutely correct here. Many of my shows have bad or no power, and I would be unable to power that many subs to full potential. However, it may not matter, since I would probably only buy something like two of them and use them at small events, and use the yet-to-be-built LAB subs at larger events.
I guess at this point, it's just a matter of which smallish front-loaded subs I should get?
According to a reliable source, the new B&C series of drivers is the best there is, and I should get something properly designed using those drivers (like the Fulcrum subs!), or just go with the JBL stuff.
Let's see what happens after I make a few phone calls...
So Silas, how about 8 SRX728's?
Evan
At this point, I think I'm guaranteed to build more LAB subs in the future. For now, I need something smaller to get me by until that day comes, and those smaller subs should be able to take care of my smaller shows.
Last night, I saw ATL at the Oakdale with Ace Audio's VT4888 rig (6/side groundstacked
) with 8 SRX728S subs. The subs definitely did the job in the room, which had about 2000 people in it and was relatively shallow (and domed, much to Evan's dismay). Evan was obviously hitting the sub limiter all night, but from what I heard, I'd say 4 LAB subs would keep up with the 8 SRX728S pretty easily. In fact, I was going to bring down my LABs to supplement the SRX but things didn't quite work out.
@Steve, the SRX728S don't fit the 22.5" dimension, but I could pack 33" items two wide in the trailer. In that case, the SRX718S would fit.
@Ron, you are absolutely correct here. Many of my shows have bad or no power, and I would be unable to power that many subs to full potential. However, it may not matter, since I would probably only buy something like two of them and use them at small events, and use the yet-to-be-built LAB subs at larger events.
I guess at this point, it's just a matter of which smallish front-loaded subs I should get?
According to a reliable source, the new B&C series of drivers is the best there is, and I should get something properly designed using those drivers (like the Fulcrum subs!), or just go with the JBL stuff.
Let's see what happens after I make a few phone calls...
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
Ramsdell makes both single and double 18's using B&C drivers that are 22.5" or less . I'd choose their 18" bandpass over either but that's just me .
Ramsdell makes both single and double 18's using B&C drivers that are 22.5" or less
. I'd choose their 18" bandpass over either but that's just me .Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
What amps did they have on the Subs?
I know that Evan with 4 Labs in a crowd of 1800 people does make some noise.
What crowd sizes are you trying to work?
Ideally this would be what I’d bring (for a rock band): Typical set-up with Subs on Stage sides
Ideally, if I was doing a typical rock show with the sub stacks on the stage side (tops stacked on top), I would bring out:
>175: 2 SRX718s
175-300: 4x SRX718s
300-500: 6x SRX718s
(not at the next level yet)
600-800: 4x SB1000 or SRX728
800-1000: 6x SB1000 or SRX728
Anything above 1000 people; I’ll use the SB1000 (as they are readily available in the area)
Last night, I saw ATL at the Oakdale with Ace Audio's VT4888 rig (6/side groundstacked
Evan was obviously hitting the sub limiter all night, but from what I heard, I'd say 4 LAB subs would keep up with the 8 SRX728S pretty easily. In fact, I was going to bring down my LABs to supplement the SRX but things didn't quite work out.
What amps did they have on the Subs?
I know that Evan with 4 Labs in a crowd of 1800 people does make some noise.
What crowd sizes are you trying to work?
Ideally this would be what I’d bring (for a rock band): Typical set-up with Subs on Stage sides
Ideally, if I was doing a typical rock show with the sub stacks on the stage side (tops stacked on top), I would bring out:
>175: 2 SRX718s
175-300: 4x SRX718s
300-500: 6x SRX718s
(not at the next level yet)
600-800: 4x SB1000 or SRX728
800-1000: 6x SB1000 or SRX728
Anything above 1000 people; I’ll use the SB1000 (as they are readily available in the area)
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
I'd say my average 'large' venue is 800 to 1500 people, and my average 'small' venue is 300-600 or so. I'll probably always need LAB subs for the larger, but I hope to be able to take care of the smaller with a couple subs smaller than LABs.
And, the SRX728s last night were powered with IT8000s, but not exactly sure in what configuration.
I'd say my average 'large' venue is 800 to 1500 people, and my average 'small' venue is 300-600 or so. I'll probably always need LAB subs for the larger, but I hope to be able to take care of the smaller with a couple subs smaller than LABs.
And, the SRX728s last night were powered with IT8000s, but not exactly sure in what configuration.
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
The SRX718's or powered VRX (same box) sitting on its back is less than 21".
The SRX718's or powered VRX (same box) sitting on its back is less than 21".
Re: Yes, it's cliche, yes it's overdiscussed, but yes, I need new subs.
The 718/918 port area is too small to be worth considering. A pair of 728s could go two wide in the trailer, though.
The 718/918 port area is too small to be worth considering. A pair of 728s could go two wide in the trailer, though.