Indiana State Fair Stage Collapse

Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

In the midwest when the siren sounds that means a twister is on the ground. They do break in to TV and radio with emergency broadcast messages. The six minute delay for a site that size is pretty good. The command center is for the entire event, not just the main stage. It would take that long for word to get out to those that need it and get people in place to deal with the crowd. Sad. Very sad.

Local 15 rocks!
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Here's one tidbit about the Emergency Alert System. Working in a radio station and dealing with EAS, my station relays severe weather and amber alerts for our listening area automatically. Many commercial stations that still have operators in studio have the ability to delay alerts and run them within programming so as to not disrupt their playlists as much.

Knowing who the primary and secondary alert originators for your area is a VERY good idea. It could save you several minutes!

In the Greater Cleveland, OH area, these stations are WTAM AM1100 and WCPN FM90.3. Do a google search for EAS LP1 and LP2 stations in your area to find out who you should really be listening to.
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Evan Kirkendall said:
I wonder if bringing down the PA(even lights for that matter) would have helped the situation at all... 4,000lbs+ of speakers swinging in the air must have put some extra force on the structure.

I've done shows where they've brought the PA in and kept things rolling. It's not ideal, but if it keeps the stage in tact...


Evan
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Landing the PA is certainly an option when you have more time. When things come in this fast the safest thing to do is get the hell out of the way. It looks like a Vdosc rig, so I'm sure it weighed a lot.
 
Re: Indiana State Fair Stage Collapse

we're very sad here in Indy. I was doing a show in Fishers, In, about 20 miles northeast of the fairgrounds at the same time as this, and during load in at the club, straight line winds hit us very hard lifting outdoor seating umbrellas up and out of the tables toppling food plates and drink glasses and dropping them onto the patrons in an instant. Noone was injured fortunately. Several families were present in this area as it is a very popular commercial area with restaurants and shops. The area was heavily populated and people scattered instantly for cover.

I watched this storm approach from the west around 8:20 pm and honestly, was scared at what I saw approaching. I'm used to storms here, this just looked different and I found it very unnerving. My wife and I also had attended the fair the night before and I remember looking at the empty stage structure thinking about its vulnerability to weather. Our load in last evening was completed before heavy rains and wind hit the area just moments later. I consider myself and my helper and the band members very fortunate.

five are now reported dead, with many, many others injured quite seriously. I'm without words. and thinking of the families of those affected. I knew nothing of the event until our performance was completed.

Steve
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

G
Rick Stansby said:
Landing the PA is certainly an option when you have more time. When things come in this fast the safest thing to do is get the hell out of the way. It looks like a Vdosc rig, so I'm sure it weighed a lot.
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Chicago tribune has some pics, and it clearly vdosc with dv underneath, there's a later picture with audience people propping it up, presumably to rescue folks. They also have a striking photo that clearly shows the dsr vertical trust members failed at a joining plate.That was a big, proper roof, scary stuff.
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Evan Kirkendall said:
I wonder if bringing down the PA(even lights for that matter) would have helped the situation at all... 4,000lbs+ of speakers swinging in the air must have put some extra force on the structure.

I've done shows where they've brought the PA in and kept things rolling. It's not ideal, but if it keeps the stage in tact...


Evan
Click to expand...
Bringing in the PA would have helped but there are 2 factors that make a move like that hard to do:

1. Time. The winds seemed to move in so fast that even an evacuation was not possible.
2. Human hesitation. Killing time additionally, people seem to wait too long, keeping fingers crossed, hoping the condition will move away and the show can go on, until it's too late for a proper reaction.

This brings me to some fundamental questions:

Why must stages be so tall, especially in regions where there is the possibility of high winds? Why must they be made from aluminium? Why was there no (don't know the correct word in english) diagonal reinforcement in the towers? Why was the PA not in seperate towers?

This brings me to an even more fundamental question?

Why must the show always go on?
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

One issue I can see after years around these structures is that to layman, including local cops and fire personnel is that they probably don't know the structural specifics of these stages. It was built in front of a grandstand, the grandstand survives no problem. People see a storm coming and seek shelter where?.. -In a building of course. What's to differentiate in an average person's mind one big huge structure from another -Huge grandstand? Large livestock shed, Massive very expensive looking stage? If anything people might get nearer to these structures thinking they are safe! The other buildings in these venues have survived years of even stronger storms -overall why as an industry do we tolerate such relatively flimsy construction -yes to us we think it's proper and everything is done above-board but we are hanging more load on these things than we trust on some permanent buildings!
There will be much finger pointing but I'm just trying to step back from our industry perspective and wrap my brain around the tragedy in a way someone just watching the evening news -a possible juror or even attorney might see it. I'm thinking there might be some changes ahead in how we will be required to do things and it may backlash even beyond what's actually needed to solve these problems (-like even the U2 claw stage being deemed inadequate.)
 
Re: Indiana State Fair Stage Collapse

Condolences to all the brothers and sisters of IATSE #30 for your loss. A very sad day indeed.

Rob Ottaviano
IATSE #77
Atlantic City NJ
 
Re: Indiana State Fair Stage Collapse

Best wishes for a speedy recovery for those injured, and my sincere condolences to all family, friends and co-workers of those who are no longer with us.

I hope we as a business can learn something from this who can help us prevent such tragedies from happening again.
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Dave Stevens said:
In the midwest when the siren sounds that means a twister is on the ground. They do break in to TV and radio with emergency broadcast messages. The six minute delay for a site that size is pretty good. The command center is for the entire event, not just the main stage. It would take that long for word to get out to those that need it and get people in place to deal with the crowd. Sad. Very sad.

Local 15 rocks!
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In MPLS/STP the sirens sound for severe thunderstorms as well as high winds.
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Dave Stevens said:
They do. According to the Indiana State Police they were not only monitoring the situation in real time, an auto dialer contacted them with a severe storm warning. At 8:45 pm it was announced to evacuate and at 8:49 pm the structure failed.

Here is the official ISP timeline...
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/28862508/detail.html

As for why they didn't bring it in, you can't land it under load. How those big structures work is they hoist the roof structure/ grid into position, lock it off they hang from that. On that scale they don't have the lift capacity to bring it safely under load. Best thing to do at that point is get everyone clear. They were trying it seems but didn't have the time. Some of the armchair guys that don't do it at this scale need to give it a rest until the pros weigh in on what did cause the failure. Last night some of us "gray beards", about 150 years experience combined watched the video and not one of us had witnessed such a thing. Ever. We're talking well healed, ultra Varsity 25-30 years in the biz guys. None of us could speak for a little bit.
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Dave,
Thank you for being (again) the anvil of reality. My company owns and operates a similar stage structure. My post on facebook last night:

Though smaller, our 46x65 Applied roof is set in one location for the season, all towers are on concrete footings, we are guyed and cross braced to 80,000 lbs (yes) of ballast and we do not allow windwalls on the sides or more than one blowthrough scrim on the rear. But I for one will wait to pass judgement until some of the facts come out, word from better sources than facebook is that this was a by the numbers build that got hit fast with out of the ordinary circumstances.
I am not making excuses by any means, only making the statement that all of us armchair quarterbacks need to take a half of a step back before pointing fingers. None of us were on the job, and so far the shit videos and pics that I have seen (including some stills from touring crew) show the storm moving in fast and furious, quicker than forecast. Steps were already being taken in the right direction, evacuating and battening down hatches. Not to mention that can anyone count on such said grainy images to accurately show just how the rig was guyed/ ballasted? And to call it "spindly?" This wasn't a radio tower on genie county park mess, it was a properly engineered pro stage.
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

I've been in my busiest part of the year and haven't heard of this until today. What a sad outcome when lives are lost in this and any situation. I'm sure we all send our thoughts and prayers to the friends and families of those killed and injured.

I wonder why the roof panels were not engineered to let loose under a certain set of loading conditions. Some (temporary) structures under which I have worked would "tear away" the roof panels when the load threatened the frame. Better to lose the roof and get the gear wet than end up with a structural failure. But I'm just a layman wondering about this stuff.

DR
 
To the person who asked about the stages being flimsy. The strength in permanent structures comes from both the weight and the foundations. The grand stand is anchored on concrete footings with steel beams extending about 3-4 feet into said concrete. I wonder if you realize how difficult it is to create a portable building at that size.

I'm not saying everything was right. And I've been hearing that the producers wanted to try and keep the show going but did "notify" the public about an evac plan and the told them sugarland was going to proceed as planned.

Sent from my ADR6300
 
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Re: Indiana State Fair Stage Collapse

Jordan Lahr said:
I'm not saying everything was right. And ivebeen hearing that the producers wanted tri keep the show going but did "notify" the public about an evac plan and the told them sugarland was going to proceed as planned.
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According to an investigation by local TV WISH the decision had already been made to cancel the show but the storm hit prior to them making the official announcement.

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/marion_county/fair-we-made-the-decision-to-evacuate
 
Re: Indiana State Fair Stage Collapse

as soon as i heard that one of our own had lost his life in this tragedy i was filled with such sadness. anyone from the local, please tell everyone that there are many of us across the country praying for the families of those lost, the injured, and the emotional and physical well being of everyone that was there that day, and especially for our fellow professionals from local 30...
 
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