Indiana State Fair Stage Collapse

Re: Another Stage Collapse

Tim Padrick said:
Still photos during the collapse: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.233517350025642.61407.100001021352237&type=1
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From the comfort of my couch, and with 20/20 hindsight, I'd say there are a couple of damning photos in that group.

I only see one guy on that DSR corner, and you can see where the truck strap they used at the ballast end snaps and flies towards the roof. I'm assuming the USR corner guy suffered a similar failure. That's preventable, folks.

Then again, the cause was outflow winds that apparently didn't show on radar (Weather Channel showed that this morning) and it was a fast-moving storm front. Often there is no way to know how strong and how fast these things are coming, and it is understandable that it would be nearly impossible for a crew member to stop a show on a hunch and a guess. The concept "The show must go on" lies at the heart of the entertainment business, and it's a tough one for any of us to confront.

Bring the roof down quickly isn't the answer. Getting people out of the potential fall zone is. Evacuation can happen much more quickly than coordinating bringing in a roof that size.

What do I hope to see from this? First and foremost is a public database where post-failure investigations are fully available for perusal by roof owners and operators, and by show producers and their personnel. Why can't all of us easily go back and learn from past failures, instead of the information being buried in legal filings and manufacturer's records? I know there is a large quantity of data out there, and we should be able to use it in negotiations with event producers and in staff (and producer) training.

I also hope some kind of event stoppage guidelines are created. In the oil industry they are implementing new procedures where any person all the way down to the lowest probationary employee can immediately and completely stop any work action from going forward if anything appears unsafe, and they can do that with zero repercussions. It'll be tough to explain to audiences, sponsors, and producers, but it needs to happen.

Thank you for reading. I need to go think about something else for a while.
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Got that message from Joanne S. Sad days in Indy.

Our condolences to all affected by this tragedy, and especially to our Brothers and Sisters of Local 30.

Tim McCulloch, Secretary-Treasurer
IATSE Local 190 Wichita/Hutchinson/El Dorado Kansas
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Kelly Johnson said:
6 of my friends from IATSE Local 30 are at Methodist Hospital, PLEASE PRAY! 2 of my friends are in "very critical" condition. There were 4 Truss Spot operators in the roof when it came down. I was doing an acoustic gig no where near the roof.
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I am with them in thoughts. What a shame having crew up there during these weather conditions.
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

The Indiana State Police had instituted an evacuation prior to the structure coming in. According to a local DJ those in front in the VIP Sugarland seats for whatever reason weren't leaving the area. Over the PA they announced that a storm was on the way in, they delayed the act starting and told the crowd to seek refuge in the arena or the swine barn. There were sustained gusts to 60 mph and the structure came down.
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Ben Lagman said:
Similar to what Hammer said,

when doing an outdoor concert, are there not people that constantly check the weather every X-amount of time to make sure the safest possible conditions will be present?
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If only there were some way to receive alerts of impending severe weather, instead of having to constantly check the weather. Perhaps the government could set something up?
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Rob Timmerman said:
If only there were some way to receive alerts of impending severe weather, instead of having to constantly check the weather. Perhaps the government could set something up?
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They do. According to the Indiana State Police they were not only monitoring the situation in real time, an auto dialer contacted them with a severe storm warning. At 8:45 pm it was announced to evacuate and at 8:49 pm the structure failed.

Here is the official ISP timeline...
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/28862508/detail.html

As for why they didn't bring it in, you can't land it under load. How those big structures work is they hoist the roof structure/ grid into position, lock it off they hang from that. On that scale they don't have the lift capacity to bring it safely under load. Best thing to do at that point is get everyone clear. They were trying it seems but didn't have the time. Some of the armchair guys that don't do it at this scale need to give it a rest until the pros weigh in on what did cause the failure. Last night some of us "gray beards", about 150 years experience combined watched the video and not one of us had witnessed such a thing. Ever. We're talking well healed, ultra Varsity 25-30 years in the biz guys. None of us could speak for a little bit.
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Rob Timmerman said:
If only there were some way to receive alerts of impending severe weather, instead of having to constantly check the weather. Perhaps the government could set something up?
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Hello...on the web...sometimes it's hard to determine if there is sarcasm. If not.... many (if not all by now) places around the Country do have "Severe Weather" warnings broadcasted on every Radio and TV station. On these systems there is an audible (and annoying) series of beeps and buzzes, while the TV stations also will broadcast a video placard of the warning.

There is also high spl "air raid" sirens that give warning. There are also plenty of Emergency notice radios on the market...some will self activate when they detect the warning signal being broadcast.

Hammer

ps...being that this was the Indiana State Fairgrounds...wouldn't they have a municipal siren installed on site?
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Does anyone know of any foundation being setup for the members of IATSE 30 who were killed or injured? I'm a member of IATSE 15 and would like to contribute in any way I can.
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Charlie Zureki said:
Hello...on the web...sometimes it's hard to determine if there is sarcasm. If not.... many (if not all by now) places around the Country do have "Severe Weather" warnings broadcasted on every Radio and TV station. On these systems there is an audible (and annoying) series of beeps and buzzes, while the TV stations also will broadcast a video placard of the warning.

There is also high spl "air raid" sirens that give warning. There are also plenty of Emergency notice radios on the market...some will self activate when they detect the warning signal being broadcast.

Hammer

ps...being that this was the Indiana State Fairgrounds...wouldn't they have a municipal siren installed on site?
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Looks like I forgot the </sarcasm> tag. I was referring, of course, to the National Weather Service weather radios, which are quite inexpensive and which will provide alerts to severe weather.

Reading through the linked timeline, my biggest question is why the 6 minute delay between the issuance of the Severe Thunderstorm Warning and the evacuation announcement? Especially given the initial reports as to the strength of the storm? Perhaps somebody thought there was more time, given that the storm was supposed to pass through around 9:15?
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Dave Stevens said:
In that part of the Midwest those are typically tornado warnings, not just severe weather. AFAIK there were no tornado warnings or watches in effect at the time.
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Hmmm... tornado only? ....interesting.

I was posing the question about the municpal siren because I didn't know, and in my experience (that I could recall) it seemed like everywhere I've lived seemed to have a series of these sirens.

Being right on the eastern edge of what's considered the Midwest, we have severe weather alert broadcasts...it covers any type of severe weather. (high winds, tornados, snow storms, hail, downpours, sleet/freezing rain) But now, these "severe weather warnings" don't seem to be true of all of the U.S....I never would have guessed...

Then, depending on whether it's radio or Tv...they'll either verbally describe the potential hazard and/or show a placard.

Hammer
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

Rob Timmerman said:
Looks like I forgot the </sarcasm> tag. I was referring, of course, to the National Weather Service weather radios, which are quite inexpensive and which will provide alerts to severe weather.

Reading through the linked timeline, my biggest question is why the 6 minute delay between the issuance of the Severe Thunderstorm Warning and the evacuation announcement? Especially given the initial reports as to the strength of the storm? Perhaps somebody thought there was more time, given that the storm was supposed to pass through around 9:15?
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Hey Rob,

I thought it was sarcasm.. because, I thought that it was a nationwide mandate from the FCC that severe weather warnings were to be broadcasted in areas that could potentially be affected... (of course I have known of the specialized weather alert radios) but, apparently not all areas of the Country broadcast severe weather alerts on Tv and/or Radio ...some only broadcast in regards to tornados, according to Dave.

The evac announcement... someone fucked up....it's that simple. They were hoping for the best, and many people received the worst.

No one can tell me that this storm just popped up undetected and unannounced. It wasn't like a clear-day tornado that just pops up.

Hammer
 
No, this is a misunderstanding. They broadcast for all severe weather but the sirens in the Midwest are used for tornadoes only. At least that's what its like in south Dakota.

Sent from my ADR6300
 
Re: Another Stage Collapse

I think these stages are just getting way too large. The "sails" are getting bigger and bigger. You can't put up enough rigging to stand up to 60-70 mph winds on a stage that size. The bigger they get, the more un-safe they are.

Just my opinion.
 
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Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

We were doing a show last night at a county fair under a large tent.They recieved a storm warning with predicted 40 mile an hour wind,heavey rain and hail. We made annoucements over the PA and the Fair made announcements over their system telling people the storm was comming and to seek shelter in their cars.Some did that but most people didn't. Fortuantely, the heavey wind and hail didn't materialize,only heavey rains.Problem is many people don't believe the weather forcasts since they are often wrong plus people don't want to lose their good seats.Better to lose a seat than your life,but that's the reality in these types of situations.
 
Re: Indiana Stage Fair Stage Collapse

I wonder if bringing down the PA(even lights for that matter) would have helped the situation at all... 4,000lbs+ of speakers swinging in the air must have put some extra force on the structure.

I've done shows where they've brought the PA in and kept things rolling. It's not ideal, but if it keeps the stage in tact...


Evan
 
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