Behringer line array

Re: Behringer line array

This is yet another manifestation of the story Green Eggs And Ham, Sam I am. I would try to write a whole new story, you see. I would compile it so it rhymes, but my time is not that free. Plus nobody would care to read, all we can think about now is Ulrich's greed. So be it on a boat, a boat that can no longer float, or in a stadium with lots of sound and light. People are getting what they asked for. The customer is always right. :twisted:
 
Re: Behringer line array

Just noticed, they are 16ohm boxes, an idea that I like. Also I see that they have matching flightcases which hold 4 units per case.

And yes, the J series style rigging is nice.

1.6K crossover isn't great, and the fact that they are building the drivers themselves is an area of concern... but who knows. If it doesn't totally suck I can see there being an anklebiter frenzy for these, and they'll likely sell a pile to the lower budget HOW clients, community theaters, etc.
 
Re: Behringer line array

Marjan Milosevic said:
Those pictures there are drawings, not actual product pictures. So another market research trick?
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I saw the actual product at NAMM... They had pricing there in the booth. If I recall correctly the small boxes were around $600, and the "large" boxes were around $900, the subs were around $1k. Im pretty nervous of a lot of clubs and churches buying these because of the "look".
 
Re: Behringer line array

Tom Hester said:
I saw the actual product at NAMM... They had pricing there in the booth. If I recall correctly the small boxes were around $600, and the "large" boxes were around $900, the subs were around $1k. Im pretty nervous of a lot of clubs and churches buying these because of the "look".
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That was the basis of my comment earlier. The form factor and price will drive customers to these regardless of technical or sonic merits.

Was there any display of configuration/aiming/prediction software, or just some pretty painted boxes that can't be sold in the USA yet?
 
Re: Behringer line array

Tom Hester said:
. Im pretty nervous of a lot of clubs and churches buying these because of the "look".
Click to expand...
And everybody "knows" that line arrays are better----------------------------

It is really amazing the number of customers that sales guys run into that statement and what the "general public" thinks of line arrays.

Yet when questioned about WHY they are better-they can't give any reasons. And if they do offer anything it is usually the statement that line arrays only fall off at a rate if 3dB/doubling of distance vs 6dB for "normal" loudspeakers.

But they don't realize that this only applies if the line is long enough (in many cases they aren't), and they totally dismiss the fact that a properly designed "point source" will have the SAME level at the front as the rear seating (at least in the install world-not so much the portable world). So there is no "falling off" in level-at least at the listening positions.
 
Re: Behringer line array

Tim McCulloch said:
That was the basis of my comment earlier. The form factor and price will drive customers to these regardless of technical or sonic merits.

Was there any display of configuration/aiming/prediction software, or just some pretty painted boxes that can't be sold in the USA yet?
Click to expand...


Nope, And I seriously doubt they will spend the time and money to develop any prediction software. THey just had 2 stacks of 4 boxes ground stacked with the name and price on a card next to them.
 
Re: Behringer line array

Though I will reserve final judgement until I hear it, I fear that this line array will be the cause of frustration for me in the next few years. Just as with VRX, I am afraid that theaters will be sold a bill of goods by installers that the product doesn't deliver on. I will then be expected to mix on it. The venue production people will be confused by my refusal, and hours of time will be wasted attempting to educate them as to why this isn't an acceptable PA for my show.

Even if it sounds great and is built to last, I will try my best to avoid it as I have with all Behringer gear due to their business practices, which lack respect for patents and intellectual property.

I also like the barrier to entry of most line arrays. There is a certain comfort in the financial requirements of buying a line array or really any large PA. Of course this doesn't guarantee that the system will be deployed, rigged, or processed optimally, but it certainly is scary to think of a bunch of weekend warriors stacking and flying this stuff. It takes more education, experience, and knowledge to fly out a line array at the proper angles for the venue than it does to stack some trap boxes or fixed angle systems.

I get a certain comfort when a provider has L'acoustics that they have been "vetted" by L'acoustics. In theory, they have the necessary knowledge and experience to get the PA in the air safely and optimally. I know this is all in theory, but I have have never walked into a venue with Meyer, D&B, or L'acoustics brought in and scratched my head about the array.

For a while I was taking pictures of questionable arrays and was going to start a site called linedisarray.com but never got around to it.
 
Re: Behringer line array

Jason Raboin said:
Though I will reserve final judgement until I hear it, I fear that this line array will be the cause of frustration for me in the next few years. Just as with VRX, I am afraid that theaters will be sold a bill of goods by installers that the product doesn't deliver on. I will then be expected to mix on it. The venue production people will be confused by my refusal, and hours of time will be wasted attempting to educate them as to why this isn't an acceptable PA for my show.

Even if it sounds great and is built to last, I will try my best to avoid it as I have with all Behringer gear due to their business practices, which lack respect for patents and intellectual property.

I also like the barrier to entry of most line arrays. There is a certain comfort in the financial requirements of buying a line array or really any large PA. Of course this doesn't guarantee that the system will be deployed, rigged, or processed optimally, but it certainly is scary to think of a bunch of weekend warriors stacking and flying this stuff. It takes more education, experience, and knowledge to fly out a line array at the proper angles for the venue than it does to stack some trap boxes or fixed angle systems.

I get a certain comfort when a provider has L'acoustics that they have been "vetted" by L'acoustics. In theory, they have the necessary knowledge and experience to get the PA in the air safely and optimally. I know this is all in theory, but I have have never walked into a venue with Meyer, D&B, or L'acoustics brought in and scratched my head about the array.

For a while I was taking pictures of questionable arrays and was going to start a site called linedisarray.com but never got around to it.
Click to expand...

+1

And I used to have a very similar blog that I took of all the questionable "house rigs" I encountered... as you have I have discussed before and found we've been to some of the same places. I took it down after I was subject to a WordPress hack and have never reposted.
 
Re: Behringer line array

Ivan Beaver said:
And everybody "knows" that line arrays are better----------------------------

It is really amazing the number of customers that sales guys run into that statement and what the "general public" thinks of line arrays.
Click to expand...

It's not that amazing... this quasi scientific, popular wisdom has been percolating around for a while... A few people understand the actual science (or general principle), others see high end tours and installs using them, and think, I wanna get me some of that...

Of course It's a specific tool for a specific job, and there may be a lot of buyer remorse after these don't live up to the broad market expectations.

JR
 
Re: Behringer line array

Jason Raboin said:
Though I will reserve final judgement until I hear it, I fear that this line array will be the cause of frustration for me in the next few years. Just as with VRX, I am afraid that theaters will be sold a bill of goods by installers that the product doesn't deliver on. I will then be expected to mix on it. The venue production people will be confused by my refusal, and hours of time will be wasted attempting to educate them as to why this isn't an acceptable PA for my show.

Even if it sounds great and is built to last, I will try my best to avoid it as I have with all Behringer gear due to their business practices, which lack respect for patents and intellectual property.

I also like the barrier to entry of most line arrays. There is a certain comfort in the financial requirements of buying a line array or really any large PA. Of course this doesn't guarantee that the system will be deployed, rigged, or processed optimally, but it certainly is scary to think of a bunch of weekend warriors stacking and flying this stuff. It takes more education, experience, and knowledge to fly out a line array at the proper angles for the venue than it does to stack some trap boxes or fixed angle systems.

I get a certain comfort when a provider has L'acoustics that they have been "vetted" by L'acoustics. In theory, they have the necessary knowledge and experience to get the PA in the air safely and optimally. I know this is all in theory, but I have have never walked into a venue with Meyer, D&B, or L'acoustics brought in and scratched my head about the array.

For a while I was taking pictures of questionable arrays and was going to start a site called linedisarray.com but never got around to it.
Click to expand...

I'm working with a club now where the owner's stated budget and assumed desire for line array puts them into the target market for this, er, stuff. Based on their goals and needs, an L'Acoustics true line array is what looks to be the best fit. If all goes well (and budget goes up, drastically) - a few of you here will probably mix at this venue. If all goes south - they think a few of you here will be mixing shows there, happily, on a near-Behringer rig.
 
Re: Behringer line array

John Roberts said:
It's not that amazing... this quasi scientific, popular wisdom has been percolating around for a while... A few people understand the actual science (or general principle), others see high end tours and installs using them, and think, I wanna get me some of that...

Of course It's a specific tool for a specific job, and there may be a lot of buyer remorse after these don't live up to the broad market expectations.

JR
Click to expand...

If you need 4/side to make even a tiny array, for $3600 plus amps and processing you can buy a great trap box ala Danley and have it sound awesome. I have been forced to mix on a few 2 box/side VRX systems last year and it was unnerving and frustrating at best...and totally inadequate...in a situation where my "C" rig with Community SLS960's would have kicked some serious butt!
 
Re: Behringer line array

Jason Raboin said:
Even if it sounds great and is built to last, I will try my best to avoid it as I have with all Behringer gear due to their business practices, which lack respect for patents and intellectual property.
Click to expand...

I wonder how many people would be prepared to not buy Midas and give it a bad rap solely because it is owned by Uli?
Food for thought?
Darren
 
Re: Behringer line array

Darren Scaresbrook said:
I wonder how many people would be prepared to not buy Midas and give it a bad rap solely because it is owned by Uli?
Food for thought?
Darren
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Well, I'm not prepared to give it a bad wrap, but I am prepared not to buy it. I was seriously looking at Pro6 when Uli bought Midas. I immediately withdrew the Pro6 from my short list. I still have hopes that Uli will honor the Midas heritage and continue to produce a superior product, but there is no guarantee and the verdict is still out. Jay is still in place and I consider that a good sign. In another two years I will consider the dust to have settled enough to see what direction Midas is truly headed. A leopard doesn't generally change it's spots, but never say never.
 
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Re: Behringer line array

Steve Payne said:
A la Lexus, these new products would need to be built to a higher standard in order to differentiate them. At this point, there is no evidence that that is the case.
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That may be true, but I suspect Uli has enough sense to realise that he's not going to succeed in the professional market with the same approach that worked for the low-end / DJ sectors.

Part of the problem with the Behringer brand is that a handful of horror stories have "tainted" it forever with many professional users. Which is where launching a new brand, perhaps as a lower cost member of the Midas/KT stable, would make more sense.

In a similar vein, we might have seen more iLive sales if it hadn't needed to overcome the Allen&Heath badge, which despite many solid products, still had a bad rep from some previous failures and was generally perceived as lower end gear.

And I suppose the other lesson here for manufacturers is that one turkey can taint your name for years to come. It's probably worth going to almost any lengths necessary to avoid that kind of failure.
 
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