X16 Preview

Re: X16 Preview

I can't believe the market for this could be anything but small church organizations, djs and the like. Even most weekend warriors, such as myself wouldnt buy a product that's dependent upon a 3rd party device who's manufacture could decide to update which would make the mixer I just bought useless without voiding warranty on my 3rd party device.
 
Re: X16 Preview

Well I'm glad I didn't sell my LS9-16. I had it ready to list in the marketplace so that I could wait for the x16 to be released. Looks like I'll be keeping my Yamaha after all. This iPad based solution is just completely rediculous. Sorry Uli I love my x32's but I will not buy the x16 nor will I recommend it to anyone. 3rd party platforms are just a bad idea all together. What happens when my iPad gets dropped or stops working at the gig??
 
Re: X16 Preview

Uli Behringer said:
View attachment 4968
View attachment 4969

We like to share with you a preview of our new X16, which is based on the X32 digital mixer.

The iPad/PC based digital mixer includes 16 Midas-designed preamps, Ethernet connection for a wireless router, Ultranet for our P16 Personal Monitor system and also a bi-directional 16-channel USB recording interface. Like the X32, it will be remote controllable via iPad and PC (iXControl, XControl).

The unit is also rack and floor mountable for fixed installations.

Aside from the reduced channel count (16 inputs, 8 outputs) it has the same DSP engine and functionailty of the X32.

Delivery is targeted for Q2 2013 and the estimated price will be around US$ 1000.

Comments are appreciated.

Uli
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WOW!

Please no!

You should make an x16 which is just the same as the x32 cut in half. Less physical i/o, less faders/knobs, that's it.

Then you should make a 2u dsp box with any i/o on the rear, no controls on the front, and a fully published osc spec.

you are over thinking it. Just make the hardware that is useful, publish the osc spec and forget ipad development.

just put your head in the mind of an engineer trying to solve a problem.

i am right now sitting with a very big name producer in the studio and his workflow fits PERFECTLY with the x32. I could drop one in right now for 3000 bucks and not affect his workflow. In this case you nailed it.

other situations i would love a solution to are:

rack mount in ear mix setup in one box, x16 that drop in replaces an ls9-16 and again you nailed it.

Recording solution without a mixer type work surface. I just want to drop 6u - 10u worth of stuff on the side of a stage and hit record without needing to find space for a mixer.

your current new idea doesn't solve any problems for anyone, it is a cumbersome and 'show off' kind of thing.
 
Re: X16 Preview

Jason Glass said:
Guys,

It's plain to see that this product must be well along in its development if Uli can tell us that it will be shipping in less than a year and that it will have a certain price.

There's a high probability that it's way beyond the stage of its development where they could abandon the iPad processing platform or give it a completely different mechanical form (ie., rack mounted with self contained processing), and meet the price point and delivery schedule.

I'm just sayin'...
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If this is the case there will be plenty of x16's available to give out at the behringer christmas party. I dont wish anybody any ill will but i think you are hearing a resounding "NO!" to this type of platform. I think the proverbial ball was dropped on this one Uli. Maybe you werent looking for the pro sound dollar on this one, but by coming here, i would assume you were looking to address this audience. Well duck cause here comes the rotten tomatoes and heads of lettuce :)
 
Re: X16 Preview

Bennett Prescott said:
JR,

While I don't disagree that it would be nice for the Music Group to advertise in light of the exceptional exposure their products have received here, that exposure exists only because of the enormous apparent interest of the readers and participants in this forum. Uli and crew have responded to that interest by giving us several sneak peaks of new products before official release, as well as by giving unprecedented access to high level representatives of one of (if not the) largest pro audio manufacturers in the world. It is plain that Uli personally reads and responds to the X32 thread, and I am sure he will do the same here. That is a pretty large risk and commitment for a man and a company that has no need to do so, the X32 would clearly be successful whether or not they were so generous to our community here. I see no foul here, and in fact I see something that is of great benefit to this bulletin board.

This whole site exists only to serve the interests of its contributors. I think that the level of interest in anything Uli Behringer or one of his representatives has to say has been pretty clearly expressed. I have no desire to create additional forums as long as these threads are infrequent, and they are. The threads themselves may be very long, but that does not seem to be a barrier to anyone. Neither Uli nor his representatives have disguised their affiliations, nor have they been assholes, so they are not violating either of our written rules regarding content and manufacturer participation.

I feel this thread to be appropriate in every way. If you or any member of the community would like to discuss it further I am not hard to get in touch with, and it is easy to start a thread in the basement or tech support forums as well.
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Thanks... your call.. I wish I could have done market research this way back in the day, but this is a fairly unique situation with Uli's direct participation.

As I have already said more than once, people should take advantage of this unusual opportunity while that door remains open (to learn about him and his company).

JR
 
Re: X16 Preview

Shane Presley said:
If this is the case there will be plenty of x16's available to give out at the behringer christmas party. I dont wish anybody any ill will but i think you are hearing a resounding "NO!" to this type of platform. I think the proverbial ball was dropped on this one Uli. Maybe you werent looking for the pro sound dollar on this one, but by coming here, i would assume you were looking to address this audience. Well duck cause here comes the rotten tomatoes and heads of lettuce :)
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Hi Shane,

I'm not affiliated with Behringer in any way. Just a professional audio engineer with some knowledge of design and mass manufacturing processes, trying to point out the futility in asking for a complete redesign of a new product with a targeted delivery date 9 months away.
 
Re: X16 Preview

Jason Glass said:
Hi Shane,

I'm not affiliated with Behringer in any way. Just a professional audio engineer with some knowledge of design and mass manufacturing processes, trying to point out the futility in asking for a complete redesign of a new product with a targeted delivery date 9 months away.
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at the very least, if they release it and it flops then they might listen to us next time :)

Jason
 
Re: X16 Preview

Hi Uli,

Greetings from Stuttgart, Germany.

As you have probably noticed, the x16 has not been warmly greeted here. There are several reasons for this that I'm going to try and distill.

This forum is mostly viewed by professional or semi-pro sound technicians who are very aware of the ROI potential and suitability of any given piece of equipment for a particular job. Collectively we have raved about the x32 and bought a bunch of them because we can clearly see how its feature set and price position it well in the marketplace. We can see the potential for profit: in our own shows, renting to other techs or by installing them. While I have not even bought one yet, several technicians I know and trust have already told me they would gladly rent it from me, should I buy one. In other words, profit is guaranteed. The only other piece of equipment I've had a similar experience with is my Presonus StudioLive. It makes me money every week.

The x16 unfortunately is not in the same class as the x32. Although the ipad is a slick interface, I am not going to rent a mixer and an ipad to anybody. Maybe my most trusted colleague, but the chances of the ipad being stolen are too great. Even if someone has their own ipad, I'd have to have a great deal of faith that the app works every time on every ipad. If there are problems, who is going to be blamed? Me, regardless of the real cause. This is a cute piece of equipment, but it is not aimed at the pro or semi pro market and only dilutes the good name of the x32.

You may want to continue with development of the x16, but call it something else and aim the marketing at small amateur bands, acoustic duos or the like. Then, take the best features of the x32, trim it down to a 19" format, 17 faders, two layers, less functionality, but still a professional and usable product. Go head to head with the Presonus StudioLive and carve an even bigger market niche for the x family of products.

As they say in Germany, Mit freundlichen Grüße

Ciao
Simon Coffin
 
Re: X16 Preview

As I just bought a Mackie DL1608 I find this interesting but I'd also suggest releasing it under another name and keeping the "X" brand reserved for pro level equipment. +1 for a cut down rackmount X32 with at least the channel count of an SL16 (16 mono + 3 stereo + talkback). And while you're at it expand this iPad guy to the channel count of an SL16 also if you really want to bury the DL1608 ;) - or at least a single 1/8" stereo in, a talkback would be nice too :).

BTW I assume Behringer is collecting up the comments made on the Mackie user forum as to what they got right and wrong - if not:
http://www.mackie.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=27&page=1
:)
 
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Re: X16 Preview

I agree with the others.

I'm sure there is a market for the iPad based mixer, but I would rename it an have it be it's own product. As other have said, make an X16 a scaled down version of the X32.

If you look at the Presonus 24.4.2 the 16.4.2 and the 16.0.2 you can see they all share the same lineage, as mixers, and are cut from the same cloth. An iPad based mixer would just be out of place with the whole lineup.

01q.jpg
 
Re: X16 Preview

My opinion is make this concept a 1U or 2U rackspace control unit for use with the S16. Add a headphone out and an iPod and talkback in. Call it the X16R. Maybe an X32R as well. I know many people still want a 16 channel console version of the X32 which this is not. I would suggest keeping it all compatable. We all want another excuse to buy an S16 or two anyway and that would be a good one. Just my opinion.
 
Uli, I am with the majority here.

This mixer is clearly aimed at the Mackie product. That is fine but it isn't of interest to most folk here. I am sure it will sell well at Guitar Center especially if it is priced lower than the Mackie model.

Don't call it an X16. Create a brand series for the garage bands, DJs, and smaller church users.

Save the X series for the Pro mixers or it will diminish the great press you have gained with the X32.

As others have said, the X16 needs to be the mixwix/cr1604/sl16 competitor.
Rack mountable and able to use the S16 stage boxes.

I still want a x32 variant with only 8ch of local I/O and remote stage box preamps. Perhaps a pair with 25 and 17 faders?



Sent from my iPad
 
Re: X16 Preview

Guys, SERIOUSLY?
I can't believe you are complaining about this. This is a mixer for under $1000!
It's ridiculous to expect aes50, remote stage boxes etc. It's not designed to be a varsity level product. It is aimed at a particular market, evaluate it as such.
If you want/need more features, spend more money. The x32 is pocket money really, then comes the Midas pro series, and finally the xl8. Uli has every segment of the market covered.
Darren
 
Re: X16 Preview

Darren Scaresbrook said:
Guys, SERIOUSLY?
I can't believe you are complaining about this. This is a mixer for under $1000!
It's ridiculous to expect aes50, remote stage boxes etc. It's not designed to be a varsity level product. It is aimed at a particular market, evaluate it as such.
If you want/need more features, spend more money. The x32 is pocket money really, then comes the Midas pro series, and finally the xl8. Uli has every segment of the market covered.
Darren
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I don't recall saying I wanted those features for $1000.00. I do recall uli presenting a mock up of a product which I can only assume he wishes to sell to a junior/varsity crowd... If he is looking for a Dj, or small church dollar then I think he's asked the wrong group. I also think he is tarnishing the accomplishment he's done with the x32 by releasing yet another close representation of another original idea and branding it in the same line. It's been said more elequantly by others here, so that's all I got to say about that - f gump
 
Re: X16 Preview

Darren Scaresbrook said:
Guys, SERIOUSLY?
I can't believe you are complaining about this. This is a mixer for under $1000!
It's ridiculous to expect aes50, remote stage boxes etc. It's not designed to be a varsity level product. It is aimed at a particular market, evaluate it as such.
If you want/need more features, spend more money. The x32 is pocket money really, then comes the Midas pro series, and finally the xl8. Uli has every segment of the market covered.
Darren
Click to expand...

Disagree!!
 
Re: X16 Preview

Darren Scaresbrook said:
Guys, SERIOUSLY?
I can't believe you are complaining about this. This is a mixer for under $1000!
It's ridiculous to expect aes50, remote stage boxes etc. It's not designed to be a varsity level product. It is aimed at a particular market, evaluate it as such.
If you want/need more features, spend more money. The x32 is pocket money really, then comes the Midas pro series, and finally the xl8. Uli has every segment of the market covered.
Darren
Click to expand...

Completely agree, for the price its probably an excellent product .... but it’s not what I was hoping for. I wanted a 19 inch rack mount X32, not a MI - iPad thingo … but I was expecting to pay a lot more than $1K, almost X32 price..... perhaps the maket for this in MI land is better and it will sell more than what I (we) wanted ? ...

I also agree with Shane … It has tarnished what he has done with the X32 a little. It should have been released as an i16 or something like that, not part of the X32 family

Bottom line for everyone ... if you don't like it don't buy one! ...simple.
 
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Re: X16 Preview

Darren Scaresbrook said:
Guys, SERIOUSLY?
I can't believe you are complaining about this. This is a mixer for under $1000!
It's ridiculous to expect aes50, remote stage boxes etc. It's not designed to be a varsity level product. It is aimed at a particular market, evaluate it as such.
If you want/need more features, spend more money. The x32 is pocket money really, then comes the Midas pro series, and finally the xl8.
Click to expand...
I think you may have missed the point of the comments. Nobody seems to be negative about this as a sub $1,000 mixer for some applications, the comments seem to be expressing that it is not what the people here want and that calling it the "X16" may not be the best idea. For example, I don't expect AES50 or a digital snake capability for a sub $1k mixer, however I think not having it is a definite differentiator from the X32 and thus probably justifies this being a different product 'series'.

Darren Scaresbrook said:
Uli has every segment of the market covered.
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Really, every segment of "the market"? As wide and varied as the markets represented here may be I'll have to disagree, but then I don't expect any manufacturer to be able to offer a solution for every potential situation or application.
 
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