New Monitor Console

Re: New Monitor Console

Silas Pradetto said:
Well, the iLive has 'sends on fader' both the usual way and backwards. In the backwards way, any one channel can be mixed to ALL sends, on faders, at once. No other console that I know of does this. It is the only console I've used where I can be adjusting multiple monitor mixes simultaneously with one hand.
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That is a nice feature. The Yamaha PM5D, and before that PM1D have a similar feature, but they are on rotary encoders. You can have 1 mix on either a knob above the fader, or the fader, and all other mixes for a single channel on a set of 24 rotary encoders with level tallies. It is very handy for quickly seeing all the sends a given channel is routed to.

Mac
 
Re: New Monitor Console

mackerr said:
That is a nice feature. The Yamaha PM5D, and before that PM1D have a similar feature, but they are on rotary encoders. You can have 1 mix on either a knob above the fader, or the fader, and all other mixes for a single channel on a set of 24 rotary encoders with level tallies. It is very handy for quickly seeing all the sends a given channel is routed to.

Mac
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Mac, Silas.

I realize I probably misunderstood what Silas meant earlier. What I thought you meant initially was the system (also present on the X32 AFAIK) where you can use the VCA bank to quickly send one channel to many mixes. The way it works is that you select a channel and then each VCA fader represents an aux send for that one channel.

The system of building matrices on the PM1D is such that one can hold sel on an matrix and then "spin up" whatever mixes you want in that one matrix. Or you can hold sel on a mix and then "spin up" whatever matrices you want that one mix to feed. Mac, is this what you were alluding to before?
 
Re: New Monitor Console

kristianjohnsen said:
Mac, is this what you were alluding to before?
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No, although that too is a nice feature, and another reason I like the 5D and 1D. I was merely describing the 32 rotary encoders that are either mix masters, or mix send level for the selected channel. In mix send mode they let you access all 24 mixes that the selected input can be sent to, while there is another mix on the 24 rotary encoders that are above each input fader. The ones above the fader are the ones that "Fader Flip" to put the mix send on the faders and the channel level on the rotary encoder.

Mac
 
Re: New Monitor Console

Silas Pradetto said:
Clearly you haven't used an iLive, that is not what I am talking about.

You can have ALL the sends on fader, for any one channel, at any time. So, channel 1 could be mixed, independently, to any or all of your auxes, at once. Depends how many fingers you have available to push faders.
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Ok that is a cool feature, but not very useful to any touring monitor engineer as they "build" a show file once and they operate off that. This feature would be great for building mixes, but I don't see it as useful once they are built.


I have used almost every digital console under the sun in monitor world and have to say my favorites (and the ones on my rider) are

- PM5D
- Midas Pro 2 (Like using the 2 over the 6 in monitor world)
- Any Venue desk
- Soundcraft VI6

The opp is looking for a desk that would be good to have on a rider. The I live stuff is a very bad choice for riders. It is a cool desk, but I can name multiple markets that don't have a single iLive for rent (Chicago being one!). We needed an iLive for a rider a few months back and had to freight it in. If you can't find a desk in one of the bigger markets it is kind of pointless to put it on your rider.
 
Re: New Monitor Console

Silas Pradetto said:
Well, the iLive has 'sends on fader' both the usual way and backwards. In the backwards way, any one channel can be mixed to ALL sends, on faders, at once. No other console that I know of does this. It is the only console I've used where I can be adjusting multiple monitor mixes simultaneously with one hand.
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Well, the PM5D does this. Which is why I still love this console for monitors. And the iLive, of course. Good feature set, low latency, not heavy...
 
Re: New Monitor Console

Andrew Broughton said:
I've been using the PM5D forever, and it's still a good one on riders because it's easy to find. That may not last, however. At some point I'll need to update the rider to a more modern board, but I'm wondering if there really is anything out there that's better suited (or least as well suited) to monitor usage as the PM5D?

What I like is that I can see all mix values at once on the surface. I like that I can send to a mix pre-comp and post-comp on the same strip. I like it's reliability.
There's also things I don't like - the difficulty in moving channels around on the board, the library/scene system, the lack of granularity in the "safes" system...

I've used DiGiCo, Avid, Midas, Soundcraft, other Yamaha consoles, all for FOH, but not for monitors.

So, what are the newer consoles out there that people are finding easy to work QUICKLY on? Again, I'm only talking about monitors, don't really care about plugins and other FOH-friendly features.
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Is the 5D doing everything that you need it to do and keeping your artists happy? If the answer is "yes" to both of those questions, then stick with it for now. The 5D is likely to remain ubiquitous for at least another 2-3 years, why rock the boat if you do not need to? In my experience as both the still (short) touring band ME and as a regional provider in one of the largest US markets:
5Ds are everywhere, closely followed by Avid/ Digidesign Venue/ Profile. Midas Pro series have decent availability in major markets, YMMV vary in smaller markets. Digico and Soundcraft VI (my favorite)- with the exception of some of smaller Digico SD models, both can be tough even in a large market, good luck finding one in Podunk.
Forget about the Ilive, Innovasan, etc...
 
Re: New Monitor Console

Andrew Broughton said:
So the PM5D is still the winner?
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Didn't really mean those in any particular order, but yea I would say I like the workflow of the 5d the best, followed by the Pro 2 which is a VERY different work flow. It is growing on me every time I use it so ask me again in 2 months and my answer would probably be Pro 2. The MCA is a very cool feature set as it POP groups. Having a POP for each artist on stage is great. Put all the things that you normally adjust thru out the show in that group and you have extremely easy access to it. That being said the 5d is only 2 layers and very fast to move around on!

Either way they are all just tools. I believe in finding a good tool that is easily acceptable and rolling with it. I also believe in having show files for 4-5 desks so if you run into a show where you can not easily get the first choice doing the second is no issue.
 
Re: New Monitor Console

Just did a 3day monitoring festival on a Midas Pro 9. Didn't use the MCA's but Collapsed flip is what made my day.

Allowing you to only see channels that are assigned to the selected outputs. And if you hold the aux button down you can select what channels you want to send to that output and it automatically turns it on.

For example, when a new band walked in I could either ask or guess "Drummer will probably want to hear kick, snare, bass, gtr 1 and 2 and lead vocals" then I enabled those channels, so each time i selected the drum output I would get those channels on my faders. Making it really quick and never having to navigate to much.

So if the drummer then said "can I have some keys" I'd just have to hold his aux send button, find the keyboard channel and press it. Then keyboard would be added to the channels I see when I select the drum aux.

I've used the iLive (T80) for monitoring, and I like many things about it. I tend to get lost at times within it's layers, since you are working on layers on two sections of the console.
 
Re: New Monitor Console

I'm currently out with an SD10 managing 73 inputs from stage (103 active inputs on the desk) 16 stereo in-ear mixes, stereo side-fills, and 8 mono mixes. The desk lays out any way I want it to so I always have quick access to anything I need. Digico now offers the same thing that Midas does with MCAs, where control groups can be set to make moving-fader-style changes to all associated channels for a particular soloed aux send. I have a macro programmed to flip between "VCA" and "MCA" mode so I can make use of both as needed.
 
Probably not pertinent to this conversation, but the Si3 is a great desk if you are running wedges. It is split in the middle with each side having full access to all Functions. This allows you to pull up your graphics on one side and channel sends on the other. You can leave them up that way and when you select an output on the master section it pops to the appropriate graph, and the sends on faders at the same time.
 
Re: New Monitor Console

PM5D is a great work flow. Easy and fast. Plus why would you be interested to change Andy if you have your program that has your act all dialed?
Digico SD8-36 is my current go-to desk. FOH or MONS. It's got a very "analog" workflow, very intuitive. I know you used the SD8 in the past at FOH. It's my favourite monitor desk by far. Again it's always just personal taste.
 
Re: New Monitor Console

Andrew Broughton said:
So the PM5D is still the winner?
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I don't think so.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Digico.

I'm mainly a FOH engineer, but I know my comrades at the wrong end of the multicore love the Digico as much as I do. The SD10 is probably your best bet.
112 inputs, 48 mix busses, 16x16 matrix. Plenty of direct control too with 3 assignable rotary encoders per fader strip. This is great for mons because you can have, for example, channel gain, pan and compressor threshold all available while in sends on fader mode

The SD10 also has, over the SD8, a bank of user definable backlit LCD keys. 10 keys, 4 layers, that can be used for anything you like, but would be ideally suited to selecting mixes to flip to faders.

Completely freely assignable fader strips. You get 36 faders, do with them what you like, in any configuration. You can have 36 inputs up at once if you like.

Powerful snapshot engine.

The list goes on...
 
Re: New Monitor Console

Adam Robinson said:
I'm currently out with an SD10 managing 73 inputs from stage (103 active inputs on the desk) 16 stereo in-ear mixes, stereo side-fills, and 8 mono mixes. The desk lays out any way I want it to so I always have quick access to anything I need. Digico now offers the same thing that Midas does with MCAs, where control groups can be set to make moving-fader-style changes to all associated channels for a particular soloed aux send. I have a macro programmed to flip between "VCA" and "MCA" mode so I can make use of both as needed.
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I missed your post! But my post above details why this is a good call!
 
Re: New Monitor Console

Chris Johnson said:
I don't think so.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Digico.
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Ummm.... Digico is mentioned several times..

I'm mainly a FOH engineer, but I know my comrades at the wrong end of the multicore love the Digico as much as I do. The SD10 is probably your best bet.
112 inputs, 48 mix busses, 16x16 matrix. Plenty of direct control too with 3 assignable rotary encoders per fader strip. This is great for mons because you can have, for example, channel gain, pan and compressor threshold all available while in sends on fader mode

The SD10 also has, over the SD8, a bank of user definable backlit LCD keys. 10 keys, 4 layers, that can be used for anything you like, but would be ideally suited to selecting mixes to flip to faders.

Completely freely assignable fader strips. You get 36 faders, do with them what you like, in any configuration. You can have 36 inputs up at once if you like.

Powerful snapshot engine.

The list goes on...
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Can you see all mix sends and pans at the same time as you can on the PM5D?
Can you send to a mix pre-comp and post-comp as you can on the PM5D?
I've used the Digico consoles. For FOH they are great. For monitors, not so sure...
 
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