Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Marsellus Fariss

Marsellus Fariss

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Oct 25, 2011
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I fixed up an old crest VX a few years ago and put it at FOH and while the VX is a nice console and has made a world of difference from the venues previous A&H GL2800 (now a monitor desk) its getting long in the tooth and I'm getting tired of replacing switches and cleaning it constantly and all the care and feeding of an older console that's been around a whle. I'm planning on phasing it out in the next year or two but I'm not exited about possibly taking a step backwards in sound quality.. The 550cap venue like many has never had much money so calling up sweatwater and buying a Pro 2 or SC48 is not an option. We have band's engy's several times a week as well as several house engy's so we do have to pay some attention to riders although we're a small room and nobody actually expects to get the H1000 and D&B they spec in their rider. A 40 input Crest VX and EAW rig has caused zero problems thus far. And before that an old ass JBL MR/SR rig with a 32 input GL2800 and no monitor desk or processing anywhere in the building never was a deal breaker either. Though we've really ramped up booking since those days to 25-31 shows a month. And anyway I ain't going back and nobody can make me! Those where dark times....:cry:

Here's the desks I'm considering and feel free to throw in a few more.

Used Analogue:

Midas Verona
A&H GL4k
Soundcraft MH
XL200, H1K, APB Dynasonic (unlikely unless i'm patient and lucky but then I did buy a 56 frame crest VX for under a grand. :)~:)~:smile:)
Midas Legend. (Nobody really liked that desk it seems. I've never used one but they can be had for a good price.)


There's still not many acceptable digital consoles that sound good and are affordable for us. The M7, SC48, Pro 2 and Digico SD's are still all 10k+. And the LS9 sucks.

X32- In a years's time IF it proves to be trustworthy and acceptable it would work. Hell I'd get a pair even! I'm considering one for my freelance work already. I may just put it on a credit card just to try it out. No problem selling it or sending it back. Time will tell. Id park it on top of my big ass Crest for a while to see who balked at it. I'd post pics of course. Is it the Mackie 8 Bus of the 2010's or is it an actual good sounding professional console for 3k? Reviews from friends I've gotten is that it sounds better then the M7 but not quit like a Profile. That said does it sound as good or better then a Verona?
 
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Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

You should be able to score a used MH2 or MH3 for a reasonable price these days.
For a club with that many shows a month I think an analog rig will be less headache. If bands really want a digital desk, let them bring their own. This coming from a digital desk fan.... think about how many questions and training sessions you will avoid by sticking to analog.....
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Jeff Babcock said:
You should be able to score a used MH2 or MH3 for a reasonable price these days.
For a club with that many shows a month I think an analog rig will be less headache. If bands really want a digital desk, let them bring their own. This coming from a digital desk fan.... think about how many questions and training sessions you will avoid by sticking to analog.....
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Yea I feel the same way. If I did put in a digital desk it would have to be easy to get around on AND I would leave all the outboard graphs in place for FOH and wedges at both FOH and in monitor world. So many new rooms around town have installed Pro 1's or Pro 2C's and Si Live compacts without a scrap of outboard gear anywhere. Even with something as ubiquitous as a M7CL I hate when people ditch all the outboard and force you to maneuver around several menus to get to the EQ. Just having to use fader banks is a hassle to me sometimes.
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Marsellus Fariss said:
Yea I feel the same way. If I did put in a digital desk it would have to be easy to get around on AND I would leave all the outboard graphs in place for FOH and wedges at both FOH and in monitor world. So many new rooms around town have installed Pro 1's or Pro 2C's and Si Live compacts without a scrap of outboard gear anywhere. Even with something as ubiquitous as a M7CL I hate when people ditch all the outboard and force you to maneuver around several menus to get to the EQ. Just having to use fader banks is a hassle to me sometimes.
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Mars,
Whatever you decide, I hope you can bring the level of the equipment up to match the reputation for service you and your club have garnered amoung my circle of musician friends (even if that means I don't get hired to go in their with the bands).
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Easy there Jay your gonna give me a big head and I'd have to start career as a tour manager. *rimshot*

Remind me where we've met Jay? Have you been through the joint? Play the dance maybe?

Seriously though.. that's exactly what I've been doing for the last few years. The room has always been kinda special I'm just trying to make the furniture match the drapes. It's in pretty good shape these days. Worlds different then years past.


Would anybody recommend a Verona over an MH? I know a lot of people rip on the Verona because it doesn't hold a candle to the real Midas desks but if it didn't say Midas on it how would it compare? It's been a few years since I flew one.
 
Marsellus Fariss said:
Would anybody recommend a Verona over an MH? I know a lot of people rip on the Verona because it doesn't hold a candle to the real Midas desks but if it didn't say Midas on it how would it compare? It's been a few years since I flew one.
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I'd go MH over verona for the VCA. As you said you have guest engineers. I don't know what caliber of bands and BEs come thru but that is a workflow plus in that direction

On a side note I don't personally like the 'ergonomics' of the verona, a really 'slick' preamp pot too close to the hi pass for my fingers, funky eq layout - either make it straight or all the same slant, I can see what band I'm going for...
 
re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

The MHs are really good sounding, solidly built and well laid out consoles. If you like the Vx, you will be very happy with an MH.
A better desk all around than the Verona IMHO.
 
re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

honestly, if you've got the room for a large format analog desk, you're in a position to get something really great for very little money. in fact, the larger they are, the cheaper you can get them. you basically have your pick of any number of wonderful, time proven desks.

my $.02...

get a VCA console. no reason not to. i don't think very many people will be sad to see a high quality analog desk, but most would be sad to see no VCAs. i definitely would.

get something with a good reliability track record. these things are gonna get real difficult to fix, real soon. that being said, most are modular and you can practically buy a parts desk in addition to the main one and still come out ahead. so maybe this is stupid.

i think the soundcraft desks mentioned would fit the bill, although i'm not personally a soundcraft fan. the XL200 would be a good choice too.

also, take a look at the yamaha PM5000. someone is gonna say they 'sound bad', but i bet they haven't actually heard one. they were introduced so far into the digital console revolution that most of them on the open market have very low mileage. a LOT of desk for a little bit of money.

lastly, look for analogs coming out of fixed installs. i just unloaded a ML5000 from our church. i practically had to give it away, and it was in excellent shape. i sold it as a package with some processing, but by itself i doubt i would have gotten more than 1500 bucks.

good luck. happy hunting....
 
re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

brian maddox said:
honestly, if you've got the room for a large format analog desk, you're in a position to get something really great for very little money. in fact, the larger they are, the cheaper you can get them. you basically have your pick of any number of wonderful, time proven desks.

my $.02...

get a VCA console. no reason not to. i don't think very many people will be sad to see a high quality analog desk, but most would be sad to see no VCAs. i definitely would.

get something with a good reliability track record. these things are gonna get real difficult to fix, real soon. that being said, most are modular and you can practically buy a parts desk in addition to the main one and still come out ahead. so maybe this is stupid.

i think the soundcraft desks mentioned would fit the bill, although i'm not personally a soundcraft fan. the XL200 would be a good choice too.

also, take a look at the yamaha PM5000. someone is gonna say they 'sound bad', but i bet they haven't actually heard one. they were introduced so far into the digital console revolution that most of them on the open market have very low mileage. a LOT of desk for a little bit of money.

lastly, look for analogs coming out of fixed installs. i just unloaded a ML5000 from our church. i practically had to give it away, and it was in excellent shape. i sold it as a package with some processing, but by itself i doubt i would have gotten more than 1500 bucks.

good luck. happy hunting....
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Ill add a PM5k to the list! The crest I have was replaced in its previous venue with a 5k but all the engineers preferred the sound of the crest :/ Also, I've added the Audient Aztec though it's in the high end and ill be lucky to find one under 8k. I actually just found a Heritage 1000 for 8k as well and while its a killer deal I just can't justify it given what the non-purple desks are going for. I can replace both our consoles for as much with a pair of MH's for that much. Any XL like heritage and gambles are still bringing real money. I'd consider a ML although I prefer the sound of the crest. It's still a good desk though. I'me also keeping my eyes open for another crest VX as a parts desk. I have a box of cards for mine and its easy to work on I'm just getting tired of it. I've got too many other things to keep up with. I never even got around to doing op amp mods and such maybe I should put it in my home studio when I yank it out of the club and get tweaky ;)
 
re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

I will third a PM5K recommendation if you can find one within your budget. I thought we were sticking to under $10k, and didn't think they could be had for that. If they can, then I would take that over anything other than a Midas H3000 or XL4.
 
re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Steve Payne said:
The MHs are really good sounding, solidly built and well laid out consoles. If you like the Vx, you will be very happy with an MH.
A better desk all around than the Verona IMHO.
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I guess I could add, if you like the Vx, you will LOVE an APB Spectra. I suggested the MH because you ruled the APB out due to cost.
 
re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Im sure I would love the spectras. Considered biting on one last year that went cheap. I don't know what a PM5k goes for. Haven't found a sold price for one yet. The ML's and MH's seem real attractive and abundant at the moment. Its hard to not daydream about a heritage deal though. Anyway I've got time to wait.
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Marsellus Fariss said:
Yea I feel the same way. If I did put in a digital desk it would have to be easy to get around on AND I would leave all the outboard graphs in place for FOH and wedges at both FOH and in monitor world. So many new rooms around town have installed Pro 1's or Pro 2C's and Si Live compacts without a scrap of outboard gear anywhere. Even with something as ubiquitous as a M7CL I hate when people ditch all the outboard and force you to maneuver around several menus to get to the EQ. Just having to use fader banks is a hassle to me sometimes.
Click to expand...

Jeez, ditching the outboard was the one thing I liked most about going dig-it-all. No matter how badly noise boy du jour would hack things up, I was always one pushbutton away from workable settings again.
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Dave Barnett said:
Jeez, ditching the outboard was the one thing I liked most about going dig-it-all. No matter how badly noise boy du jour would hack things up, I was always one pushbutton away from workable settings again.
Click to expand...

Hi Dave, long time, no see. How are things?
 
Dave Barnett said:
Jeez, ditching the outboard was the one thing I liked most about going dig-it-all. No matter how badly noise boy du jour would hack things up, I was always one pushbutton away from workable settings again.
Click to expand...

Which is why even with analogue back in my club days, all the good BEs would ask, make it how you had the rig (appropriate dsp in the right places), just after noise boy hacked/carved/chopped everything to smitherines .... Bypass! I left the graphs for the next noise boy to have a starting point!

I do prefer the outboard combo still with the dig-it-all (thats a new one to me), but rarely (if ever) see it due to the flexibility of everything in the desk. Let the BE use the desk to create the 'sound' and use the system rack to make the rig linear and 'samey' sounding between zones ....

BRad
 
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