Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

What's the budget? It seems like Heritage 1000s are in the $10k range, and Heritage 3000s are going for around $12-20k, depending on condition, accessories, etc. I can count on one hand the number of H2ks I've seen in the last couple years, so not likely to find one. If you can find XL200s, they seem to be going for next to nothing - last one I saw was tour packed and under $3k.

Someone on the *other* board has an APB in the marketplace, although it's only a 32 ch.
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Midas Verona or the Soundcraft MH for sure. I worked in a very similar room for nearly 5 years, 550 cap with a 48 channel verona, and an old floodlight/TSW721 system. All well dated but kept functionally sound. Almost never had a complaint at all. In a venue that sized most people are happy if everything just works now days. Usually if anyone wants a better console or piece of gear at this level they will either bring it or have it rented for the show.
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Dave Barnett said:
Jeez, ditching the outboard was the one thing I liked most about going dig-it-all. No matter how badly noise boy du jour would hack things up, I was always one pushbutton away from workable settings again.
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Oh yea that's why I put in a Klark DN3600! So pleasant to save noise boys hacked to death curve and recall a flat one to mix the other acts and hear everything spring back to life. ahhhhh!

So much of what we do in clubland is making things noise boy proof that it means compromise in how we house guys work and the gear we put in. I may never use outboard EQ's if I had a new Pro 2 but green engy's who've never flown one don't need to spend half the soundcheck remembering how to call up the graphs. Nor do I want to have to pay an A2 to stand around and tech FOH for a Tuesday show that sold 50 tickets because said noise boy is helpless. It happens enough already with a standard analogue rig. So I'd have graphs and probably an M-One patched in even if I never use them.

Evan F. Hunter said:
Midas Verona or the Soundcraft MH for sure. I worked in a very similar room for nearly 5 years, 550 cap with a 48 channel verona, and an old floodlight/TSW721 system. All well dated but kept functionally sound. Almost never had a complaint at all. In a venue that sized most people are happy if everything just works now days. Usually if anyone wants a better console or piece of gear at this level they will either bring it or have it rented for the show.
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That's exactly where I'm at. The hunt is still on and we're getting closer to buy time.

Here's the narrowed down criteria:

at least 40 mono's
at least 8 groups
at least 8 auxes
4 sweepable bands w/ a variable highpass
mute groups
sounds very good
still serviceable
5k or under

I love VCA's as much as the next guy but I can live without them. And honestly most of the BE's that come through don't even use them. I've had guys ask me how to pan them. That's the world I live in.

We're most likely going to wind up with either a MH or a Verona. Both can be had for 5K and under all day long and both are reliable. In some ways I would prefer a Verona because it sounds like a Midas and because it's dead simple any hack can fly it without asking any questions. In some ways I'd prefer the MH because it's more feature rich with VCA's, Q controls etc..

I'm not gonna rule out a Legend for us house guys. We do up to 6 mixes from FOH more often then we get to fire up the monitor desk. I would love it. And it sounds like a Midas. But once again.. If me or my A2 aren't available for a show and I need to call in the second string guys the complicated Legend could cause almost as many headaches in clubland as an unfamiliar digital console with no outboard. So I'm really on the fence about that one. If one floats along in our budget I'd probably go get it and see what happens.

What I really want is a big Venice f with 40 inputs, 8 groups, 8 auxes and a variable HPF. I've had my f 32 in the club the last few days doing small shows before our insane February starts and I really love it except for the limitations. I don't think they're going to make one though. Those days are over. Even though the original Venice was their best selling console of all time.
 
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Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Marsellus Fariss said:
Here's the narrowed down criteria:

at least 40 mono's
at least 8 groups
at least 8 auxes
4 sweepable bands w/ a variable highpass
mute groups
sounds very good
still serviceable
5k or under

I love VCA's as much as the next guy but I can live without them. And honestly most of the BE's that come through don't even use them. I've had guys ask me how to pan them. That's the world I live in.

We're most likely going to wind up with either a MH or a Verona. Both can be had for 5K and under all day long and both are reliable. In some ways I would prefer a Verona because it sounds like a Midas and because it's dead simple any hack can fly it without asking any questions. In some ways I'd prefer the MH because it's more feature rich with VCA's, Q controls etc..
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Depending on your market (ie how many were ever sold new in the first place), the Soundcraft Series Two ticks all those boxes, would be cheaper than an MH, and sounds decent enough, IF you can find one in decent condition (might find one coming out of a church install if they were trading up to digital for example).
HTH,
David.
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

How do the older Midas such as an XL200 or XL3 hold If I put one in? if serviced before being installed? Do they require regular care and feeding or would it be something I wouldn't have to think about?
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

If I have anything over 16 or so inputs with a 5+ member band, I really want VCA's. If more mixers knew what the did they would use them instead of or along with groups. On the X-VCA with the built in comps on the 8 groups and available VCA control of them the dynamic possibilities are greatly enhanced. Just oversaw a studio class and we mixed on the Crest and I was impressed myself when explaining all the possible routing and dynamic options it has.
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Marsellus Fariss said:
Oh yea that's why I put in a Klark DN3600! So pleasant to save noise boys hacked to death curve and recall a flat one to mix the other acts and hear everything spring back to life. ahhhhh!
Click to expand...

I had one of those, it was a lifesaver, and sounded good too. I also liked being able to highlight multiple frequencies simultaneously, for un-hacking purposes.

Marsellus Fariss said:
So much of what we do in clubland is making things noise boy proof that it means compromise in how we house guys work and the gear we put in. I may never use outboard EQ's if I had a new Pro 2 but green engy's who've never flown one don't need to spend half the soundcheck remembering how to call up the graphs.
Click to expand...

I went digital and outboard-less at the club I used to work in, and never regretted it. Especially with all the multi-band package tours we were getting, being able to save multiple sound checks was priceless.
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Marsellus Fariss said:
How do the older Midas such as an XL200 or XL3 hold If I put one in? if serviced before being installed? Do they require regular care and feeding or would it be something I wouldn't have to think about?
Click to expand...

The only 'no maintenance' large format desks I have ever seen had model numbers that started with PM. Every Midas, Soundcraft, Crest, or whatever desk I've used required at least a modicum of upkeep. That being said, a well preserved XL200 or XL3 that doesn't have to move might still serve you quite well. If you're moving it in and out of place on a regular basis you might not fare so well.
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Dave Barnett said:
I had one of those, it was a lifesaver, and sounded good too. I also liked being able to highlight multiple frequencies simultaneously, for un-hacking purposes.



I went digital and outboard-less at the club I used to work in, and never regretted it. Especially with all the multi-band package tours we were getting, being able to save multiple sound checks was priceless.
Click to expand...

One of our problems with switching to the all "digital console save and recall for each act" working method in our room is that our stage gets so cluttered with backline when we have 3 or more acts we physically can't get to mics to move them from amp to amp, drum kit to drum kit etc... We often have to pin up an opening act entirely downstage because the stage looks like a pawnshop and we can't even get to our drum and cross sub snakes. Because of this we would either have to go with 48 input digitals and continue to patch each act discreetly (which are not in the budget as 40+ digitals are still expensive) or after each soundcheck we would have to pull each bands entire patch at the snake head and patch it back for their set. Doing this for 3 acts a night means repatching 5 times a show and I'm not cool with that. If there's a slicker working method please fill me in. If I could just by a pair of 32 input digitals and make it work I would love it. Short of adding an expensive snake system with mass connectors on all the sub snakes and an A/B patch I can't think of how to make 32 channels work. I've never PM'd in a venue with this arrangement though so perhaps I'm missing something?
 
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Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

brian maddox said:
The only 'no maintenance' large format desks I have ever seen had model numbers that started with PM. Every Midas, Soundcraft, Crest, or whatever desk I've used required at least a modicum of upkeep. That being said, a well preserved XL200 or XL3 that doesn't have to move might still serve you quite well. If you're moving it in and out of place on a regular basis you might not fare so well.
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An XL200 in good shape would be IDEAL as long as it is reliable for years to come.

BTW, on the XL3... I've never used groups on one but don't you assign to audio groups by using the aux/mix send knobs and dime them out? Or is it more elegant then that? I works perfectly fine that way just it's not part of our modern convention anymore.
 
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Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

John Chiara said:
If I have anything over 16 or so inputs with a 5+ member band, I really want VCA's. If more mixers knew what the did they would use them instead of or along with groups. On the X-VCA with the built in comps on the 8 groups and available VCA control of them the dynamic possibilities are greatly enhanced. Just oversaw a studio class and we mixed on the Crest and I was impressed myself when explaining all the possible routing and dynamic options it has.
Click to expand...

I hear ya! I'd love that! Haven't ruled it out.. just studying all my options. Whatever I buy we're going to be stuck with for the next hundred years cause clubs have no money right?
 
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Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Dick Rees said:
One hundred years? Then there's only one console for you: Crest Century.
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That's what we have now. A big ole' 64 frame Century VX. And it's not gonna make it near a hundred years. The naming nomenclature wasn't entirely honest. But I guess if they called it the "Twenty-ish Years" it wouldn't have sold as well. Great desks though.
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

I've got a Soundcraft k2 on my bench right now, and aside from the slightly limited EQ it's a very nice mixer. Variable low-cut filter, mute automation, 8 each auxes and groups.

And compared to the Crest consoles I've worked on, the only things that seem to wear out are the insert jacks (the normalling gets kind of flaky) and the bridge rectifiers in the PSU (a fairly cheap fix). All the pots and switches tend to be just fine.
 
Re: Help a club pick a console to replace an aging Crest VX.

Marsellus Fariss said:
One of our problems with switching to the all "digital console save and recall for each act" working method in our room is that our stage gets so cluttered with backline when we have 3 or more acts we physically can't get to mics to move them from amp to amp, drum kit to drum kit etc... We often have to pin up an opening act entirely downstage because the stage looks like a pawnshop and we can't even get to our drum and cross sub snakes. Because of this we would either have to go with 48 input digitals and continue to patch each act discreetly (which are not in the budget as 40+ digitals are still expensive) or after each soundcheck we would have to pull each bands entire patch at the snake head and patch it back for their set. Doing this for 3 acts a night means repatching 5 times a show and I'm not cool with that. If there's a slicker working method please fill me in. If I could just by a pair of 32 input digitals and make it work I would love it. Short of adding an expensive snake system with mass connectors on all the sub snakes and an A/B patch I can't think of how to make 32 channels work. I've never PM'd in a venue with this arrangement though so perhaps I'm missing something?
Click to expand...

At the risk of being accused of saying that the X32 is the answer for everything (which is certainly isn't)...

you could buy 2 X32 consoles and several s16 stage boxes for your target 7k price. Use the stage boxes as actual ON STAGE boxes. You could deploy a pair for each act, bringing all the cat5 cable back to your monitor desk. Changeover would simply mean repatching 1 cat5 cable and recalling the appropriate preset on the desk.

if you don't want to buy the B word, the new Soundcraft expression board might also be of interest. Regardless, some form of digital snake head may be worth considering. Once you price out a bunch of multicore and multipins for a traditional stage, the cost of multiple digital stage boxes starts to not seem all that prohibitive.

just a thought.
 
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