Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

N0- a "regular" bass horn-using a different alignment. Tom had to work on this one awhile-the original customer had some pretty high demands-and then backed out-but we continued anyway.

It was originally a military project that required a lot of bass (40-150Hz) that could be flown under a helicopter in a single cabinet that was kinda small (for the output).
 
Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Ivan Beaver said:
Full range boxes are a little while away-but we just finished a prototype sub (a different alignment) that makes a TH115 sound like a front loaded single 12" sub). It is a bit larger (50x50-x18") with 4 12" woofers and kicks like a cannon! For regular Danley listeners-their mouths are dropping open.

I will start basic rough measurements today. We still have "finish work" to do on it-as this is a "proof of concept" and it proves alright-so not that long from production.

There is another 4x12 sub (same kind of performance concept-but different alignment and very different physical layout) that we should start testing in a couple of weeks.
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Any chance this is configured like the old SPL Bdeap cabs? A wide flat cab that could go up against a wall would be a great install option.
 
Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

John Chiara said:
Any chance this is configured like the old SPL Bdeap cabs? A wide flat cab that could go up against a wall would be a great install option.
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It's 50x50" on the front-and 18" deep.

I can't show a photo-because it would give away the design (this is just a prototype/proof of design-concept)-but imagine a 50x50 face with a exit hole in the middle-but not anywhere near the full face

Attached is a screen shot of a couple of Danley subs and the new one (working name Mil412). All driven with the same input voltage but he new one was driven as a single 2 ohm-so subtract 3dB for a power difference.
 

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Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Brandon Blakeney said:
Thread Jacking :/ LOL, its all good I think we covered most of what I was curious about.
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Any concluding thoughts then? My vote goes for a used KF730/UX8800 rig still, or perhaps what Peter suggested, the T12. I have not heard the T12 but many positive accounts say they are well worth auditioning.

FYI, just noticed today on Ebay, a 20 box versarray rig for sale, buyer is asking 14K. It doesn't cost much to get into a VRay rig, but be prepared to enter a different realm of cost when you move up, and make sure it is a need, not a want.
 
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Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Brandon Blakeney said:
Thread Jacking :/ LOL, its all good I think we covered most of what I was curious about.
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Sounds scary, Ivan.. oh, er.. Brandon.

Yeah, topic swerve happens. Personally, I wonder when Tom Danley is going to slow down the product release cycle. He obsoletes his own creations in 18-24 month cycles.
 
Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Tim McCulloch said:
Sounds scary, Ivan.. oh, er.. Brandon.

Yeah, topic swerve happens. Personally, I wonder when Tom Danley is going to slow down the product release cycle. He obsoletes his own creations in 18-24 month cycles.
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I wouldn't say any product is obsolete. Just a different tool in the tool box. Different jobs require different tools. No one tool fits all applications.

Like a socket set-1/4-3/8 or 1/2" drive-how long of a handle do you need? Does it need to swivel? and so forth. For a real mechanic-the answer is "all of the above-depending on what he is working on".
 
Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

6 pages of people talking mostly about 20 year old ground stack technology and not 1 peep about these. Some of you folks are gonna vacation here and when you do you should make it a point to check out some of these that are used by some Florida companies.


Gene Hardage said:
At the risk of being ridiculed by people who have never heard this product here are a couple of line array things that can actually compete with some of the big dawgs.
Ramsdell Pro Audio - Products

Ramsdell Pro Audio - Products - Line Array Section - LA-2-12.2

Not sure of the price per box but as has already been mentioned you will need a full size truck for transport - lots of NL8 cable - motor hoists - and plenty of modern power amps with all the rack pac and distro wire needed so the price per box is just the tip of the iceberg. Then once you have all that stuff you have to deal with the logistics of getting it all up in the air and aimed properly.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Gene Hardage said:
6 pages of people talking mostly about 20 year old ground stack technology and not 1 peep about these. Some of you folks are gonna vacation here and when you do you should make it a point to check out some of these that are used by some Florida companies.
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Their dual 12" is 6" bigger than a Kf730 cab... Asymmetrical design( Silas pointed out possible horizontal dispersion issues)! It's also only a two way cabinet ( yeah I know it says triamp... It's probably just powering the other 12, covering a different band.
And I know the op said he wasn't concerned with rider friendly boxes, but I really think if he at least doesn't consider that, he'll be crying twice... This line would be lumped in with the " haven't heard it before" pile, and may not want to hear it at all.... Just sayin.
 
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Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Shane Presley said:
Their dual 12" is 6" bigger than a Kf730 cab... Asymmetrical design( Silas pointed out possible horizontal dispersion issues)! It's also only a two way cabinet ( yeah I know it says triamp... It's probably just powering the other 12, covering a different band.
And I know the op said he wasn't concerned with rider friendly boxes, but I really think if he at least doesn't consider that, he'll be crying twice... This line would be lumped in with the " haven't heard it before" pile, and may not want to hear it at all.... Just sayin.
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YeeHaw! At least I'm not talking to myself. This is the kind of product the original poster asked about. He hasn't popped up yet so no telling if he looked or not. As mentioned - they're worth checking out. I'm probably the only person on this forum that has heard the 2x12 version. It's really a 4 way with a passive on the center horn (there are 3 x 1inch drivers on a single horn lens) Your "haven't heard it before" pile, and may not want to hear it at all" is a not so thinly veiled insult to a pioneer in speaker design history. You should open your mind and your ears if given the chance. They sound really good.
 
Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Gene Hardage said:
YeeHaw! At least I'm not talking to myself. This is the kind of product the original poster asked about. He hasn't popped up yet so no telling if he looked or not. As mentioned - they're worth checking out. I'm probably the only person on this forum that has heard the 2x12 version. It's really a 4 way with a passive on the center horn (there are 3 x 1inch drivers on a single horn lens) Your "haven't heard it before" pile, and may not want to hear it at all" is a not so thinly veiled insult to a pioneer in speaker design history. You should open your mind and your ears if given the chance. They sound really good.
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Ummmm.... Okay,

Officially believe it when I see it. .....

Ymmv. Etc.


please fell free to show me the magic.
 
Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Jeff Babcock said:
FYI, just noticed today on Ebay, a 20 box versarray rig for sale, buyer is asking 14K. It doesn't cost much to get into a VRay rig, but be prepared to enter a different realm of cost when you move up, and make sure it is a need, not a want.
Click to expand...

I have a 20 box versarray 112 rig now, the versarrays I was talking about was the 212's....
 
Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Ivan Beaver said:
Attached is a screen shot of a couple of Danley subs and the new one (working name Mil412). All driven with the same input voltage but he new one was driven as a single 2 ohm-so subtract 3dB for a power difference.
Click to expand...

Is the TH812 also a 2 ohm load in this picture? Or is the Mil412 really as sensitive as the 812, just with less low extension?
 
Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Gene Hardage said:
YeeHaw! At least I'm not talking to myself. This is the kind of product the original poster asked about. He hasn't popped up yet so no telling if he looked or not. As mentioned - they're worth checking out. I'm probably the only person on this forum that has heard the 2x12 version. It's really a 4 way with a passive on the center horn (there are 3 x 1inch drivers on a single horn lens) Your "haven't heard it before" pile, and may not want to hear it at all" is a not so thinly veiled insult to a pioneer in speaker design history. You should open your mind and your ears if given the chance. They sound really good.
Click to expand...
By far the most technically stressful gig I've ever been a part of was the one and only time I've used a line array from a non-established/small company/proprietary player.

Building OK trap boxes is one thing; building a line array that not only sounds good but performs better/more/cheaper/easier than the established players is quite another. Maybe the Ramsdell folks have nailed it, but it's going to take more than a web page with no EASE data, graphs, or aiming software to get me to take a look, and it's going to take one heck of a lot of performance at a very low price to overcome rider acceptability concerns.
 
Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Frederik Rosenkjær said:
Is the TH812 also a 2 ohm load in this picture? Or is the Mil412 really as sensitive as the 812, just with less low extension?
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The TH812 is not switchable to a 2 ohm load. It is switchable to either a single 4 ohm or 2x 8 ohm loads. Either way the sensitivity would be the same as the same voltage is applied.

But for reference it is in a single 4 ohm mode.

In this case-all the measurements were done exactly the same. Mic stayed in the same place-same drive level etc. The different cabinets were just moved into the same place and the same cable plugged into each.

As a general rule-you pay a 9dB/octave "price" for extension. In this case-the intention was no to go real low (not everybody needs sub 30Hz performance) , but to get really loud in the "meat and potatoes" range 40-100Hz.

The cabinet could be made a little deeper and then house 8 12" drivers-and the max output would go up 6dB.
 
Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Ivan Beaver said:
The TH812 is not switchable to a 2 ohm load. It is switchable to either a single 4 ohm or 2x 8 ohm loads.
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Thanks for googling that for me! ;) (sorry - could've checked)

Ivan Beaver said:
Either way the sensitivity would be the same as the same voltage is applied.

But for reference it is in a single 4 ohm mode.

In this case-all the measurements were done exactly the same. Mic stayed in the same place-same drive level etc. The different cabinets were just moved into the same place and the same cable plugged into each.

As a general rule-you pay a 9dB/octave "price" for extension. In this case-the intention was no to go real low (not everybody needs sub 30Hz performance) , but to get really loud in the "meat and potatoes" range 40-100Hz.

The cabinet could be made a little deeper and then house 8 12" drivers-and the max output would go up 6dB.
Click to expand...

I think a "meat and potatoes"-focused cabinet or two would be great. As you say, not everybody/everywhere needs anything below 40Hz. The form factor is not for me, though - as I understand you, it will be 50" tall in any typical deployment and there are many stages in my work where that won't fit. Maybe the other design you mention has an exit on a slim side? But I love cabinets with at least one very slim/small/short dimension (and the possibility of an acoustical exit on a slim side). I think it makes them more versatile than a block that takes up more than a little space in all dimensions, both in deployment and truck pack. That's also something I love about my TH212s. A "somewhat regular" size sub with TH812-like sensitivity would be awesome.
 
Re: Reasonably Priced Large Format Line Arrays

Asymmetrical design is not that bad. Meyer Milo is also asymmetrical and i dont see anyone talking bad about them.

We are currently working on our first line array box. It will be similar to RCF NX configuration, but with much superior performance.
So far our calculation shows that it will be very competitive price wise. So stay tuned :)
 
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