The SM58...

[Dick Rees]

Re: The SM58...

No one is saying that the SM58 isn't needed for people providing sound. Myself, I am saying that if you do sound for yourself, the SM58 is a substandard microphone to do it with.

I get that you have to provide lemonade for the people who have always used an SM58. If you want better sound and less feedback, then for a few more dollars, you can get a much more capable microphone that sounds better, and rejects feedback better.

Perhaps it is just my testing environment, but seriously, the SM58 doesn't stand up to the A/B test with most of these other microphones we have been discussing here. Gold standard or not, it just doesn't make the grade in my testing. I would love to hear from others who have done their own testing and came up with a different outcome that I have.

The SM58 is not in the budget bracket of crap microphones either. Can you get through the night with it without sounding bad using SM58's? Sure, but you could have sounded better, and you could have had less issues with feedback using a better mic IME.

I can't even begin to list the number of major artists throughout the last 40 years (or more) who have sounded fabulous using 58's.

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: The SM58...

And if you look for a return on investment-it is hard to beat a 58.

They guys who actually make money at this game (I was not one of them) get their gear paid for-and continue to rent it out for years afterwards.

The 58 is something that fits that bill very well. They only drop a little bit in value (assuming they are not trashed)-so after just a couple of rentals you are at the "break even point". After that, it is all profit.

They guys who are always "chasing the new toys" often find themselves in debt (myself for example).

 

[John Chiara]

Re: The SM58...

I can't even begin to list the number of major artists throughout the last 40 years (or more) who have sounded fabulous using 58's.

To be fair, a lot of old recordings are great too but I would not settle for the level of distortion and overdrive that often happened because of limitations in the gear. Plus I would bet some old time singer on a PR 35 would sound ok too! My point is that they didn't have a real choice and now we do. I have over 70 mics, and one is a 58...I don't feel limited at all. The clincher for me is that in all the years of trying different mics on different sources I can honestly say that the 58 never won a shoot out.

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: The SM58...

I have over 70 mics, and one is a 58...

I'm getting close to 300 mics (one-man sound co_) and 6 of them are SM58's. Twenty-two of them are cheaper SM58 knock-offs. When doing live sound, the 58's always get set up. If someone asks for something else, they'll get it......if there's time. (Think 8 bands in 8 hours with no time scheduled for change-overs.)

If I have my choice, I throw up a half-dozen PL80a's. Flatter response, tighter pattern. But the 58 is and will always be the closest thing to a "one size fits all" mic.

 

[Chuck Simon]

Re: The SM58...

If an artist request a 58, that's the end of the conversation. I have better use of my time than to try and convince someone to agree with my opinion about microphones! No matter how much one spends on mics, it's still just an opinion!

 

[drew gandy]

Re: The SM58...

But the 58 is and will always be the closest thing to a "one size fits all" mic.

Or at least till the end of your gigging days? I'm curious what we'll be saying in another 40 years.

 

[Milt Hathaway]

Re: The SM58...

Or at least till the end of your gigging days? I'm curious what we'll be saying in another 40 years.

"You want fries with that?"

 

[John Chiara]

Re: The SM58...

I'm getting close to 300 mics (one-man sound co_) and 6 of them are SM58's. Twenty-two of them are cheaper SM58 knock-offs. When doing live sound, the 58's always get set up. If someone asks for something else, they'll get it......if there's time. (Think 8 bands in 8 hours with no time scheduled for change-overs.)

If I have my choice, I throw up a half-dozen PL80a's. Flatter response, tighter pattern. But the 58 is and will always be the closest thing to a "one size fits all" mic.

Just picking on you Dick but you are stating that you have 28 mics that are as good as a 58 or less? I assume you wouldn't put them up if you didn't own them. Are you saying that artists request 58's?
I use PL80a's. For someone buying mics today I thInk we do a disservice to not encourage shopping around.

 

[Chuck Simon]

Re: The SM58...

I think that our mic assortments, or collections, are based more on our own curiosity and search for that perfect mic than on the requirements of our clients. In my experience, national acts included, 99% of the singers that did not bother to bring their own mic were totally satisfied to see a 58.

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: The SM58...

Just picking on you Dick but you are stating that you have 28 mics that are as good as a 58 or less? I assume you wouldn't put them up if you didn't own them. Are you saying that artists request 58's?
I use PL80a's. For someone buying mics today I thInk we do a disservice to not encourage shopping around.

The 58 clones are for cheapo rentals (Powered head/SOS/no monitors), multiple single mic/powered speaker lecture tents at festivals, amateur sports field announcers, anyone who wants a mic with a switch and ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT MICS ARE STAGE PROPS TO BE THROWN LIKE SPEARS.

IOW, mics which, when lost or destroyed, only cost me $20 each to replace. Expendables.

 

[John Chiara]

Re: The SM58...

The 58 clones are for cheapo rentals (Powered head/SOS/no monitors), multiple single mic/powered speaker lecture tents at festivals, amateur sports field announcers, anyone who wants a mic with a switch and ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT MICS ARE STAGE PROPS TO BE THROWN LIKE SPEARS.

IOW, mics which, when lost or destroyed, only cost me $20 each to replace. Expendables.

I totally understand that. I bought 13 EV PL 84 condensors. Got lucky in that they also sound really good. Plus I don't do any dry rentals so all my stuff just gets used by me.

 

[Scott Bolt]

Re: The SM58...

I can't even begin to list the number of major artists throughout the last 40 years (or more) who have sounded fabulous using 58's.

Hi Dick,

I hear you. I am not saying that you can't sound good if you use an SM58. I am saying that if you are running sound for your own band (which is likely the biggest group of microphone purchases out there), there are better microphones at or near the same price point as the SM58.

I am also not saying that any sound provider should attempt to sway any performer away from using an SM58. If that is what they want, let them have it. I agree.

If you are someone out there looking through sound forums to find out what microphone would be best for your band, I would like to think that they could see a thread like this, and learn from those of us that have actually used these various microphones extensively what the pluses and minuses are of each microphone.

I want my band to sound as good as I can get it to sound. I don't really care if the SM58 is popular as a rider, I just want to have the vocals sound great and not have to worry about feedback. The SM58 is simply not the best microphone for this purpose in my experience and with the tests I have put the microphones through.

Do you have test results which are different from this? I would be interested in hearing from anyone who does because that would mean that either my testing method, or my ears, or both are radically different from theirs.

 

[Caleb Dueck]

Re: The SM58...

Hi Dick,

I hear you. I am not saying that you can't sound good if you use an SM58. I am saying that if you are running sound for your own band (which is likely the biggest group of microphone purchases out there), there are better microphones at or near the same price point as the SM58.

I am also not saying that any sound provider should attempt to sway any performer away from using an SM58. If that is what they want, let them have it. I agree.

If you are someone out there looking through sound forums to find out what microphone would be best for your band, I would like to think that they could see a thread like this, and learn from those of us that have actually used these various microphones extensively what the pluses and minuses are of each microphone.

I want my band to sound as good as I can get it to sound. I don't really care if the SM58 is popular as a rider, I just want to have the vocals sound great and not have to worry about feedback. The SM58 is simply not the best microphone for this purpose in my experience and with the tests I have put the microphones through.

Do you have test results which are different from this? I would be interested in hearing from anyone who does because that would mean that either my testing method, or my ears, or both are radically different from theirs.

+1
I've only had 1 experience when a 58 was the best option available.
Just because a specific tool can be made to work doesn't logically determine that it's the best tool for the job.

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: The SM58...

A good violinist can make a piece of wood sound like a Stradivarius. A good singer can make any decent mic work for him/her.

It's the talent, not the machinery. It's the singer, not the song.

 

[Scott Bolt]

Re: The SM58...

A good violinist can make a piece of wood sound like a Stradivarius. A good singer can make any decent mic work for him/her.

It's the talent, not the machinery. It's the singer, not the song.

It is both IMHO..... and a good violinist can't make a crappy violin sound like a Stradivarius. The best guitarist can't sound good on a beat up acoustic with poor fret alignment and intonation.

There are reasons for sound providers to have a stock of SM58's. I can't see any reason for a band providing their own sound to own even one (although as stated, I still keep one around).

If you start making the argument that the sound quality of the equipment doesn't matter, you are left with a carvin powered head and Kustom speakers on a stick wondering why you can't get things to sound good.

On the flip side (and to your point) the best equipment on the planet can not make a horrid singer sound great.

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: The SM58...

Scott...

I have personally heard several "third-world" musicians who could coax a stellar tone out of a POS fiddle playing for coins on the street. Being a player myself, I couldn't resist kicking in a contribution and chatting for a while, then borrowing their instrument for a tune-swap. Until you've tried getting even a simple tone out of a home-made fiddle, you can't really appreciate what a true genius can do with a run-of-the-mill instrument.

You don't have to believe my "tall tales", but I swear they're true.

 

[Jay Barracato]

Re: The SM58...

Scott...

I have personally heard several "third-world" musicians who could coax a stellar tone out of a POS fiddle playing for coins on the street. Being a player myself, I couldn't resist kicking in a contribution and chatting for a while, then borrowing their instrument for a tune-swap. Until you've tried getting even a simple tone out of a home-made fiddle, you can't really appreciate what a true genius can do with a run-of-the-mill instrument.

You don't have to believe my "tall tales", but I swear they're true.

I am not a fan of the SM58, I said that before, but I think much of this thread has lost sight of the forest looking at the bark on the trees. Often a band, once they are ready to buy mics, are likely to buy a SM58 because that is what the venue on that one higher profile gig they got had, and the venue had it because that is what everyone asks for. It is just a self perpetuating circle.

With that said, I think techs chase after the "perfect" mic is a result of the mic choice being one of the few things we can actually have input into or control.

If seeking that control takes away from the ARTIST's creation, then it is not for the better.

Critical listening doesn't mean being critical of everything you hear, or thinking that just because you would have done something different, that the music that was made is as valid as any other expression.

When it comes down to it, we are the frame on the painting. Yes the frame can enhance the painting, but a great painting looks great even with no frame. On the other hand no one hangs empty frames to look at.

 

[Silas Pradetto]

Re: The SM58...

I feel like most people have forgotten that "mixing" means they have to use their creative/artistic abilities to make things sound good. And yes, this requires effort sometimes. Like using the EQ, or maybe some compression, or whatever other tool is required to make the artist sound good through whatever speakers are there. No, an engineer is not really "mixing" if they plug in a microphone into a flat channel strip and expect things to sound great. It just doesn't work that way.

I used to be solidly against the 58, but now, I have no problem getting perfectly usable, even excellent, sound out of one. Maybe it's because after 10 years of mixing, I finally know what I'm doing? (The Fulcrum Acoustic speakers certainly help too)

 

[Art Welter]

Re: The SM58...

I used to be solidly against the 58, but now, I have no problem getting perfectly usable, even excellent, sound out of one. Maybe it's because after 10 years of mixing, I finally know what I'm doing? (The Fulcrum Acoustic speakers certainly help too)

Must be true, some are just slow learners ;^).

In addition to your experience, as you have advanced in your career, you are probably now dealing with a higher level of talent that don't require as much turd-polishing.

 

[Brian jojade]

Re: The SM58...

Hi Dick,

I hear you. I am not saying that you can't sound good if you use an SM58. I am saying that if you are running sound for your own band (which is likely the biggest group of microphone purchases out there), there are better microphones at or near the same price point as the SM58.

I am also not saying that any sound provider should attempt to sway any performer away from using an SM58. If that is what they want, let them have it. I agree.

If you are someone out there looking through sound forums to find out what microphone would be best for your band, I would like to think that they could see a thread like this, and learn from those of us that have actually used these various microphones extensively what the pluses and minuses are of each microphone.

I want my band to sound as good as I can get it to sound. I don't really care if the SM58 is popular as a rider, I just want to have the vocals sound great and not have to worry about feedback. The SM58 is simply not the best microphone for this purpose in my experience and with the tests I have put the microphones through.

Do you have test results which are different from this? I would be interested in hearing from anyone who does because that would mean that either my testing method, or my ears, or both are radically different from theirs.

I'll disagree with this post. If someone is looking on forums to decide which microphone to use, then an SM58 is probably one of the BEST choices. Why? Because it's the most widely used, and likely, those around them will have used them and already know how to get the most out of the mic. Are there better choices? Always. But if you're cruising through forums to get the answer, you probably aren't experienced to know which mic to choose that will be the better choice for your particular application. The SM58 being that all around good enough mic that will get the job done. Energy is better spent on determining the rest of the audio chain, which usually is a larger source of the problem than the microphone.