The SM58...

Re: The SM58...

drew gandy said:
I suppose there should be an sm58 murder count somewhere on the Shure site. Pure marketing genius I tell ya.
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I've never seen anybody killed by a 58-but have seen a good number of teeth knocked out during the hardcore shows.

I used to keep some of the Sm48 (looks like a 58-but much cheaper) that I would use for the "cheaper shows" for both vocal and drum mics.

For those shows the difference in sound quality was not needed.
 
Re: The SM58...

I think it all depends on the person that owns the mic , if he can use it to what ever specs that he may have as a soundman. myself i love the EV cobalt 4's and 7's. I haven't had any problems at all with them. they do really well for my using.
 
Re: The SM58...

I have to go with the OP here.

I have tested the SM58 against the Beta 58, OM5, Sennheiser e835, OM7, and the EV ND767a.

My personal favorite is the ND767a with the e835 AND OM5 behind that. The Beta 58 has more clarity than the SM58, but is pretty bright and brittle needing quite a bit of eq to put it back in line.

If I want to get some feedback on stage, all I have to do is get a couple of SM58's up there in the exact same environment as my ND767a's and it is pretty clear what is the problem.

Having stated that I am not a personal fan of the SM58, it is less directional than my ND767a's which is sometimes better for singers that insist on singing a foot from the microphone.

If you run sound for a living, I am sure that no one ever got "fired" for suggesting an SM58..... but then again, lets take a look at that statement and where it came from.

"No one ever got fired for purchasing IBM PC's ".... was the original quote. Go find an IBM PC today ;)

I am not saying that a SM58 isn't good enough to get you through the night ..... it is just a far cry from the same sound quality of other more modern microphone designs.... at least it is to my ears.
 
Re: The SM58...

Scott Bolt said:
"No one ever got fired for purchasing IBM PC's ".... was the original quote. Go find an IBM PC today ;)
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FWIW: The old saw about IBM was never about PCs, but about the big mainframe computers.

And and far as that goes, IBM is really the only one left standing in the centralized computer market, while the competition, the "Seven Dwarfs": Control Data, NCR, Honeywell, etc., are long gone. Only Cray, which was founded by the engineering brains of Control Data, Seymour Cray, is a viable competitor in that market.
 
Re: The SM58...

Scott Bolt said:
"No one ever got fired for purchasing IBM PC's ".... was the original quote. Go find an IBM PC today ;)
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I hate to ruin your analogy but IBM just rebranded their computers as Lenovo, and there are quite a few of them out there. Working in the IT field I see them from time to time, and I like 'em. But that's a little off topic now isn't it. John Norris is right though, they still make blade servers that are branded as IBM. Still pretty popular.
 
Re: The SM58...

Brian Monroe said:
I hate to ruin your analogy but IBM just rebranded their computers as Lenovo, and there are quite a few of them out there. Working in the IT field I see them from time to time, and I like 'em. But that's a little off topic now isn't it. John Norris is right though, they still make blade servers that are branded as IBM. Still pretty popular.
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+1, outside of Apple world Lenovo seems to be one of the few brands making robust notebooks.
 
Re: The SM58...

Spenser Hamilton said:
+1, outside of Apple world Lenovo seems to be one of the few brands making robust notebooks.
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They are more trim than many of the other PC laptops. But it still astounds me that none of the non-Apple laptops have tried to really make their products slick and strong like the current crop of Mac stuff. At my day job, I have a plethora of Mac and PC laptops I test our products on. The high end HP and Dell workstation laptops are hideous, heavy, cumbersome, plastic-y, bulky (and just downright ugly) computers. The power supplies are monstrous and they're still using dumb pin style power connectors that will break off or knock your laptop off a table if you trip on the wire. Apple has been using a magnetic based power connector for years now that just disconnects in the event of a wire trip or pull, a brilliant concept. And the power supplies weigh a fraction of the HP, Dell, and Lenovo machines.

The folks here that run Windows instead of Mac OS still get the Macbook Pros and run Bootcamp with Win7 or Win8 because they're so much slicker and thin. The PC laptop makers really need to get some better designers for their stuff. It's somewhat baffling to me that they don't care or just don't get it.
 
Re: The SM58...

Brian Monroe said:
I hate to ruin your analogy but IBM just rebranded their computers as Lenovo, and there are quite a few of them out there. Working in the IT field I see them from time to time, and I like 'em. But that's a little off topic now isn't it. John Norris is right though, they still make blade servers that are branded as IBM. Still pretty popular.
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Actually, Lenovo was the OEM for IBM. IBM sold the Thinkpad name and various trade dress assets to Lenovo.
 
Re: The SM58...

Tim McCulloch said:
Actually, Lenovo was the OEM for IBM. IBM sold the Thinkpad name and various trade dress assets to Lenovo.
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Beat me to it ;)

The point was really that at one time, the PC was synonymous with IBM (ie the "IBM PC") or "IBM Compatible". Today, they are no longer in the PC business at all.

As for the venerable SM58, I don't see how anyone that has done a serious listening and usage comparison in a live sound environment could believe that an SM58 is not an inferior sounding microphone than say an EV ND767a. I also found that the ND767a is much better at keeping feedback under control than an SM58. With 3 open microphones on stage, I got around 6db more volume before feedback with the ND767a than the SM58..... and actually that isn't even completely the case since the fact was that with IEM's, I can peg our system clear out to full volume with the ND767a and not get any feedback ...... this is not the case if I put SM58's on stage.

Perhaps someone here has a different experience than I have?
 
Re: The SM58...

Scott Bolt said:
Beat me to it ;)

The point was really that at one time, the PC was synonymous with IBM (ie the "IBM PC") or "IBM Compatible". Today, they are no longer in the PC business at all.

As for the venerable SM58, I don't see how anyone that has done a serious listening and usage comparison in a live sound environment could believe that an SM58 is not an inferior sounding microphone than say an EV ND767a. I also found that the ND767a is much better at keeping feedback under control than an SM58. With 3 open microphones on stage, I got around 6db more volume before feedback with the ND767a than the SM58..... and actually that isn't even completely the case since the fact was that with IEM's, I can peg our system clear out to full volume with the ND767a and not get any feedback ...... this is not the case if I put SM58's on stage.

Perhaps someone here has a different experience than I have?
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Not trying to get into a "defending" situation-but there is often more to a mic than just "feedback rejection".

Yes-in some situations that can be the most important.

But I have done plenty of shows and been in plenty of situation where a 58 works perfectly fine and has plenty of "feedback rejection".
 
Re: The SM58...

Have to say after a 2 day recording session that Heil mics are again topping my list of favorites.
Used 22's and 35's for a few different sources and they were awesome.
 
Re: The SM58...

Scott Bolt said:
Beat me to it ;)

The point was really that at one time, the PC was synonymous with IBM (ie the "IBM PC") or "IBM Compatible". Today, they are no longer in the PC business at all.

As for the venerable SM58, I don't see how anyone that has done a serious listening and usage comparison in a live sound environment could believe that an SM58 is not an inferior sounding microphone than say an EV ND767a. I also found that the ND767a is much better at keeping feedback under control than an SM58. With 3 open microphones on stage, I got around 6db more volume before feedback with the ND767a than the SM58..... and actually that isn't even completely the case since the fact was that with IEM's, I can peg our system clear out to full volume with the ND767a and not get any feedback ...... this is not the case if I put SM58's on stage.

Perhaps someone here has a different experience than I have?
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+1 Agreed. I used them back in my playing days and our lead singer had a wireless beta 58. and i had a ND767a. He was all time eq'ing it and i was just singing right along with the EV. I never had to adjust anything on my mic at all . He couldn't get it up in db's without feedback. so i agree with scott on this one. although shure is a great brand of mic , I just never had any luck with them not feeding back on me. I had a wireless headset that i used at times to to go out in the audience and I had the biggest amount of trouble with it feeding back all the time , even when i was on stage and it was a shure as well. so EV's are with me all the way.
 
I have a band in tonight that actually said "thank God, you have 58's". They said they were in a theater the night before that only had a bunch of expensive mics and it took them a lot longer for their engineer to dial it in. I'm listening to him mix now and he is no slouch.
Bottom line is that most of us know how to dial them in fast and easy. Makes one offs a breeze.

As a bass player I feel the same way about a GK800. Not the best amp ever, definitely not the biggest range. But man, I can plug and play and sound good in less than 5 minutes. It's a good feeling.
 
Re: The SM58...

Eric Lenasbunt said:
I have a band in tonight that actually said "thank God, you have 58's". They said they were in a theater the night before that only had a bunch of expensive mics and it took them a lot longer for their engineer to dial it in. I'm listening to him mix now and he is no slouch.
Bottom line is that most of us know how to dial them in fast and easy.
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First, a band not carrying their own vocal mics is stupid for a variety of reasons. If they like 58's and don't have their own are they just cheap? Why would they let that one cheap variable affect their show? I had a agruement years ago with a sax player because I didn't have a 57 for her sax. Got all indignant and pissed. I said.."They are $100, if it's that important to you, buy your own."
 
Re: The SM58...

Eric Lenasbunt said:
I have a band in tonight that actually said "thank God, you have 58's". They said they were in a theater the night before that only had a bunch of expensive mics and it took them a lot longer for their engineer to dial it in. I'm listening to him mix now and he is no slouch.
Bottom line is that most of us know how to dial them in fast and easy. Makes one offs a breeze.

As a bass player I feel the same way about a GK800. Not the best amp ever, definitely not the biggest range. But man, I can plug and play and sound good in less than 5 minutes. It's a good feeling.
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Your story reminds me of my own reaction to the Heil PR22. It wasn't particularly good, I kept trying to make it sound like a 58. Yeah, I know.... <blush>

The Heils and I are now at peace, and I have learned to appreciate HF shelving filters (now that they have a signal to work with). :D

I will share a story I've told before (repeat offenders may hit the back arrow). Many years ago I was providing for Asleep at the Wheel in a club with a legal capacity of 300 and frequently there were 400+ packed in. They had a rider and a tech named Jim Finney. At setup I tried to substitute AKG dynamic mics for the requested SM57s on the toms. Jim looked at the mics and then looked at me. "Sonny, those are probably really nice mics, but I don't have time to learn them today, so how about you put the 57s I asked for?" I did, and learned that familiarity trumps someone else's idea of suitability or quality. Jim still mixes the Wheel and it's always a treat to do their show.
 
Re: The SM58...

Getting back to the OP I will state the obvious. Pretty much every vocal mic in the $200 and up range sounds better than a 58. I don't have to work very hard to get a good sound with a SM58 but I understand what it is and know that it will never sound as good as a EV 767 or 967, Heil PR35, Senn 945, etc etc and I don't expect it to. It is what it is. If you expect a SM58 to sound like one of those then you will have to work very very hard and guess what........it is still not going to sound the same. Then there is the feedback rejection issue if you start cranking up the EQ. The SM58 is the Toyota Camry of vocal mics. It is dependable and will always get you there but it is not a Ferrari.
 
Re: The SM58...

@Ivan
Not trying to get into a "defending" situation-but there is often more to a mic than just "feedback rejection".

Yes-in some situations that can be the most important.

But I have done plenty of shows and been in plenty of situation where a 58 works perfectly fine and has plenty of "feedback rejection".
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I agree there is more, but other mics have "more" too. They sound better in addition to being easier to use in a stage environment.

@John,
Have to say after a 2 day recording session that Heil mics are again topping my list of favorites.
Used 22's and 35's for a few different sources and they were awesome.
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Those are a bit more expensive than the rest of the crop we have been talking about, but I have heard nothing but good things said about them from people that have used many good microphones (including my favorite ND767a).

@Craig,
For me, "quite a bit" is a minimal cut at about 4kHz to take the spike out. It never sounds "brittle".
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Yea, they are a decent microphone (certainly better than the SM58 with regards to detail). They don't sound as warm as other microphones I tested against, but they are a good microphone that is easier to sell people on (especially SM58 lovers).

@Eric,

price check ....

SM58 - $99.00
Beta 58a - $159.00
EV ND767a - $129.00
ND 967 $149.00
Heil PR35 $274.00
Sennheiser e945 - $220.00
Sennheiser e845 - $140.00
Audix OM5 - $159.00
Audix OM7 - $229.00

I haven't heard it myself, but I don't find it unusual that the Heil PR35 would be the best in class in this group. All the others I have used and tested. For $129.00 (I have gotten them for $100.00 by just looking around), the ND767 is worth every penny of the extra $30.00 over the SM58 and I prefer it to any of the other microphones in the group .... with the e845 and e945 being close enough that no one would notice the difference without a very close A/B comparison.

I would like to say that IF I was providing sound for bands and needed to handle riders, only a fool would not have a stash of SM58's around (I have one, but it is only for old times sake).

If you are providing your own PA or your own microphones for doing your own gigs, I think the absolute worst place to try to save money is on your microphones (closely followed by speakers).
 
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