Mixing Resources

Re: Mixing Resources

Jared Koopman said:
I'd like one of those tshirts :)
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I remember several decades ago telling a club owner I was mixing a couple of bands for, "That is all the system will do. That is the best I can do with what you have." as our ears were being hammered. Now that I actually know what I am doing I can say with absolute certainty that If I had another 10dB of headroom it would have been the same garbage coming out of the mains, just 10dB louder.
 
Re: Mixing Resources

Fortunately(?) in the bad old days you'd be lucky to have a pair of CS800's on your rig so you learned how to mix within its limitations. 'Course we usually had the clip limit lights (AKA DDT) on solid LOL.
 
Re: Mixing Resources

Lee Brenkman said:
After working with systems both great and foul for 45 years I've learned the most important thing when mixing music is...

"Primum non nocere"
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I like to think of it as "organic" mixing. Take what the players give me and see if it conveniently makes music on its own. If it doesn't, I become a producer and try to conform the input side to create the band's desired output.

If that's not possible, I go back to "turn it up and let 'em play." It might be want they want that night, or it might be audio compost... but it's not my job to mess with it unless instructed.
 
Re: Mixing Resources

Martyn ferrit Rowe said:
Hey Phil,
what happened to that mixing guide you wrote? couldn't find the link to it, was it on PSW?
ferrit
(senile)
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Am not Phil, nor do I play him on TV, but I think this is the one you're thinking of?
It's in the archived threads section of the old version of PSW, originally having been in the Lounge there I think.
Definitely worthwhile for the OP to look at.
Cheers,
David.
 
Re: Mixing Resources

David Morison said:
Am not Phil, nor do I play him on TV, but I think this is the one you're thinking of?
It's in the archived threads section of the old version of PSW
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David,

Good find. I'm not even sure I would have found it.

About this time last year I had contemplated re-editing and updating that general guide and making it into a sellable pamphlet.

Unfortunately, I wrote that through a particularly hard time in life, and some of that bleeds through as I re-read it (though probably only to me). I'm not sure how much I want to go back to look through it anymore, and of course my thoughts/approach have evolved some in the intervening years. It also feels somewhat more analog console structured than what I would write today.


  • With a skim, the intro and up to section 3 still read pretty well to me.
  • I would want to re-write parts 4 and 5, but they are more or less ok in terms of content accuracy.
  • I don't touch on noise masking, which I've since concluded is more important than anything in the equal loudness curves for mixing.
  • Part 7 needs a digital-focused re-tread
  • On a rewrite of the equalization section (part 8), I would stay out of the weeds a bit more.

All in all, I think it still is a usable collection for those new to mixing, though arguably I've said as much, using fewer words, in this thread.
 
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Re: Mixing Resources

Martyn ferrit Rowe said:
hey david, sorry I meant Phil graham. I just hit reply to the wrong post :( good find though ! cheerz ferrit
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No apology needed, knew you were addressing Phil but thought I'd chip in as I happen to know where it is, having referred one or two others to it in the past.
Only put the disclaimer in lest Phil or anyone else thought I was being a bit presumptious :roll:
Cheers,
David.
 
Re: Mixing Resources

I will keep that in mind. Fat chance of that happening at my church though. The rig of 7 KF650Z, Macrotech power in an LCR setup in a room with 700 people and a pastoral goal of mixes that tickle 85 to 90 dbA on the fast setting will never fail to be loud enough...headroom is a nice luxury to have even if I'd like to mix a bit louder sometimes. Gut punching bass and screaming guitars are not the goal:razz::cry:

Eric Cagle said:
I think that is probably a right of passage we have all done as well. You have to remember to blame the rig for not being loud enough to fully be a member and get the t-shirt.
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Re: Mixing Resources

Oh, hey - just booked a fundraiser in Norwich CT Sept 2nd. Adam, if you want to be the fader jockey I need to be on-stage. Should be plenty of time during setup to go over stuff. One of my guitarist buddies is running for City Council - go Republicans LOL. Mixer will be a Mackie DL1608...
 
Re: Mixing Resources

Hi Adam – I am at the other corner (SW) of CT from you but I too would love to sit down with you and discuss sound and be a sounding board for some of your questions.

I agree with what a lot of the other people on here have posted so I won’t repeat those parts.

I tune the system (using Smaart) for linearity as I assume that most people do. But I then put all of my vocal mics (same model) in a group and then insert an EQ and compressor on that group. I then EQ for gain before feedback. I use one of the vocal mics routed to an input of my Smaart rig and feed pick noise thru the vocal sub group. I then reduce the frequencies on the EQ that are showing as non-linear in Smaart. These are the frequencies that will usually be the problem ones. This way I have maintained the linearity for playback and close miced instruments and have a good gain before feedback on the vocal mics.

The other thing that I do I have had mixed results with, sometimes it works great and other times it doesn’t work the first time. This has to do with EQing monitors. One way is to first EQ using Smart for linearity with the mic at about ear height and aimed directly at the monitor. I then use one of the vocal mics and substitute it for the measurement mic. I usually do this thru the console feeding it out an Aux, and I EQ out the offending frequencies. I have sometimes done the above method with skipping the Measurement mic part and just go right to the vocal mic. The times that it hasn’t work are the times I wind up sucking the life out of the monitor and have to start all over again. But using this method I have been able to get a nice loud monitor that doesn’t feedback even when someone waves the mic at the monitor, or they lean down to pick up their music that is on the floor next to the monitor while holding the mic.

I have found that sometimes when dealing with Shure SM58 mics I also have to take a bit of low end out usually centered around 200hz.

These are just some of my tricks. And always listen.
 
Eric Cagle said:
Yep. Guaranteed to muddy up a mix if left unchecked. This is one of those clean it up before you amplify it things.
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Same reason that if you have a variable hi pass you can bring it up much higher than people would initially think is appropriate. The top octave of the filter is just flattening the proximity effect bump.
 
Re: Mixing Resources

The "Vintage EQ" selection on my Mackie DL1608 has these options for HPF:
Off, 50, 80, 160, 300
Lately I've been using the 160 setting. I'd normally run around 120 using the "modern" EQ which has a fully variable HPF. I'm starting to like the 160 for most vocals - sounds a tiny bit "thin" solo but sits above the mix better :).
 
Re: Mixing Resources

Thanks for the offer Kevin & Ron. I would like to do something along those lines at some point. But I've been slacking in devoting time to this project. I'm also an aspiring guitar player, still quite the beginner. But as my chops improve the desire to practice/play increases exponentially. I'm currently spending 1-4 hours a day playing. With additional time being spent on reading theory, studying and watching guitar related YouTube. Add in a weekend carpentry project and I'm quite busy as of late. But I have managed to do a fair bit of reading and did bring some gear home to tinker with.

Though it makes me a bit uncomfortable, I've listened to the advice presented and agree that I just need to dive in.
 
Re: Mixing Resources

Adam Black said:
Though it makes me a bit uncomfortable, I've listened to the advice presented and agree that I just need to dive in.
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Running sound is one of those things that really cannot be mastered any way but by experience. The only way to get experience is to get experience. You have to start somewhere and no matter what you seem to know there is always more that can be learned, even when your mixes are stellar. It is not an exact science like programming. There is not one correct mix. Five different great engineers will have five slightly different mixes, all of them great but with minor or even major differences according to the tastes and preferences of each.

Honestly what you are hoping for starting out is that the mix will at least sound good and not be a loud jumbled up mess. That should not be that hard believe it or not. You will get better and better as you go on, just like with your guitar. There is so much good advice in this thread you should be off to a good start. Mixing sound during band practice is a wonderful hands on way to learn and also gives you lots of time to experiment and nobody gets hurt.

Most importantly HAVE FUN!

Let us know how it is turning out.

-Eric
 
Re: Mixing Resources

Hey Adam, what kind of music do you want to play? I'm usually in a few "basement bands", could use a rhythm guitarist in a blues "band" and a modern rock "band" at the moment a mile or two from your office :) and maybe for a Jazz/Blues jam "band" starting back up in September close by.
 
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