60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - AKA PM60

Sunny posty

New member
Jul 7, 2020
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Amsterdam
Hello, after recefing the dwg file by email form peeter, my router guy say he need a big job to convert it to be useble for his machines.
You guys how have had the wood routed, also had this problem or is my router guy, jus using diffrent program, so the file is not compatible.
 

Kevin McDonough

Freshman
Jan 3, 2016
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Hello, after recefing the dwg file by email form peeter, my router guy say he need a big job to convert it to be useble for his machines.
You guys how have had the wood routed, also had this problem or is my router guy, jus using diffrent program, so the file is not compatible.

The information that comes in the DWG file has all the exact dimensions for each piece of wood that's needed to build the speaker. However this in itself isn't ready to just plug straight into a CNC router.

Some work is needed to take the CAD file and put it into the CNC program that runs the machine. You need to work out how you're going to take all the various pieces that need cut and lay them out on the actual plywood boards, program in all of the tool paths and where cuts need to be made, where to route joints and handle holes and holes for the drivers and ports etc so the machine knows how to cut up the boards into all of the pieces you need.

This is usually programmed in something like Mach 3/4 or the Vectric software programs, which then talks to the actual CNC router in it's native language, g-code, and tells the router what to and how to cut the ply.

Someone may have done this already and be able to send you a file with all of the cuts already in place, however these files are somewhat specific to each machine. While the layout of the boards and cuts might be the same, things like how deep the router cuts each pass, how quickly it moves and drills etc, are all dependent on the machine being used, the power of the cutting spindle, the size and quality of the tool bits etc etc.

However even if a previously made CNC file isn't exactly what's needed for your guy's machine, it might get you a big chunk of the way there and only need some small adjustment, and be better than starting from scratch. If you can find out what router software he is using that would be a help too, someone may have a file in the same software.
 
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Sunny posty

New member
Jul 7, 2020
6
1
3
44
Amsterdam
The information that comes in the DWG file has all the exact dimensions for each piece of wood that's needed to build the speaker. However this in itself isn't ready to just plug straight into a CNC router.

Some work is needed to take the CAD file and put it into the CNC program that runs the machine. You need to work out how you're going to take all the various pieces that need cut and lay them out on the actual plywood boards, program in all of the tool paths and where cuts need to be made, where to route joints and handle holes and holes for the drivers and ports etc so the machine knows how to cut up the boards into all of the pieces you need.

This is usually programmed in something like Mach 3/4 or the Vectric software programs, which then talks to the actual CNC router in it's native language, g-code, and tells the router what to and how to cut the ply.

Someone may have done this already and be able to send you a file with all of the cuts already in place, however these files are somewhat specific to each machine. While the layout of the boards and cuts might be the same, things like how deep the router cuts each pass, how quickly it moves and drills etc, are all dependent on the machine being used, the power of the cutting spindle, the size and quality of the tool bits etc etc.

However even if a previously made CNC file isn't exactly what's needed for your guy's machine, it might get you a big chunk of the way there and only need some small adjustment, and be better than starting from scratch. If you can find out what router software he is using that would be a help too, someone may have a file in the same software.
Ahh that clears it up thanxx.
wel im beeing charged 1500€ for making this file so,, think that wil leave cnc option out.
:( back to mould making and hand routing it is.
 

Kevin McDonough

Freshman
Jan 3, 2016
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Yeah, that seems like a lot!

I can understand that this is maybe a reasonable price for commercial work, where the file would be made once and then hundreds or thousands of products would be made, but for a one off set of speakers it seems a lot. A day's work for an experienced machinist should more than be enough to lay out the boards for a speaker, and you'd expect a couple of hundred £ or Euros would be enough to cover their time, not 1500.

There are some people who have made these in the UK I'm sure. If they were able to supply the file they used, it may take a relatively small amount of adjustments to allow it to be used on your guy's machine.
 

Steve Hurt

Junior
Jan 31, 2011
441
1
18
Has anyone built these w/

BMS 4593 (I own 4 of them)
passive crossovers (whose? BMS?)
DSP amp (PLD4.5 for instance)

Curious what the passive x-over does to max spl
The box's allure is high SPL. If I can make it work passive but lose the spl gain over standard speakers, then that sort of kills it
 
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Steve Hurt

Junior
Jan 31, 2011
441
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18
When you say isn't good enough, you
1) Don''t think it's a good amp power wise
2) Don't think the DSP is sufficient
3) both

I use PLD amps now and am happy with them for other speakers
I can't afford a Lake
 
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Max Warasila

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Feb 20, 2013
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Both.

1. To elaborate, I don't think it's a bad amplifier. I do think that it's a tad underpowered if you use all 4 channels In my past experience, I hit the internal power limiters far before I expected - though that may have been on the 4.2 or 4.3 rather than the 4.5.
2. 5 parametric bands is "fine", but this speaker was explicitly designed with extensive DSP correction in mind including high slope crossovers, several bands of output channel EQ, and ideally some additional input EQ to polish everything off. I ended up using about 6-7 bands on average using the DCX processor just for the output EQ and then more input EQ to work across the crossover regions. I really like the limiters on the PLD, it's ridiculous to me that all "DSP" amplifiers don't have a combined short and long term limiter.

What I will add is that if you're already going to shell out ~2100 USD for a PLD 4.5, you should maybe consider getting a used PLM20000Q from Clair for 3200 USD. It's got an output stage with 197V of output swing, plenty of output current, and the Lake DSP is integrated. From what I hear about the 4.5's reliability, the used PLM is probably of similar constitution and now has the 5 year warranty to back that up.
 

Steve Hurt

Junior
Jan 31, 2011
441
1
18
I already have the PLD 4.5's
(and I have to use amps that plug into NEMA 15 outlets and don't blow breakers
The PLD does hit it's limiters quick when pushed. My original settings were aggressive and the things hit the limiters super fast.
I has to open them up a bit abd they still don't hit as hard in stereo (supposedly 2000/w/[email protected] ohms) as a I-Tech 4K did.
(But the PLD had been WAY more reliable than I-Techs were. I switched because the I-Techs kept breaking)

I have the amps, BMS 4593 drivers, and have located boxes.
So my cost is the boxes, crossovers and woofers.

Basically the PM60 looks to be around 7 db more efficient than what I have now
My current rig is doing the shows I need, but there's no headroom left.
I'm thinking this would get me 6 db more headroom.

The dsp is a concern though.

I appreciate your comments. Give me some things to consider before I dive in
_____________________________________

Any comments on the 4593 vs the 4594 or 4594 HE