Analog comeback?

B

Brandon Blakeney

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Jan 14, 2011
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Laurel, MS
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If I know some of the people here, ya'll are ready to pounce on me. :) But you should know that I now own an M7 that I'm using for monitors.

But back to the topic at hand, I noticed in the October edition of Pro Sound News that Dierks Bentley and Eric Church are now carrying Midas Analog at FOH. The reason I even bring this up is that I could have sworn that both of these artists were previously using digital consoles.
 
Re: Analog comeback?

A couple of summers ago I was on 4 shows, all clair Nashville, all carrying analog foh.

They all had 3-4 18 space racks of outboard.

That is certainly the choice of the foh engineer if they wish but I certainly did not hear any differences that justified the extra labor in setup or even just the extra cost of the multipins they used.

Like usual this comes down to your disbelief that someone could look at the same problem as you and not come up with the same solution.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
 
Re: Analog comeback?

It probably isn't about the analog console as much as the racks of analog outboard gear... Operating in the digital domain with analog EFX means extra conversions back and forth that may not be as much of sonic problem as enough to scare up marginal decisions.

It seems they might benefit from a rack of outboard preamps, with or without digital gain control, so they can feed inputs straight to the effects before entering the digital console, while EFX on groups would still require the extra conversions.

or not.... I wish there really was a valid justification for analog mixers since I still have (analog) design ideas I haven't fully explored, but I don't see it in my crystal ball.

JR
 
Re: Analog comeback?

Brandon Blakeney said:
If I know some of the people here, ya'll are ready to pounce on me. :) But you should know that I now own an M7 that I'm using for monitors.

But back to the topic at hand, I noticed in the October edition of Pro Sound News that Dierks Bentley and Eric Church are now carrying Midas Analog at FOH. The reason I even bring this up is that I could have sworn that both of these artists were previously using digital consoles.
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I am hoping for a new club install next spring that I will be managing and I am doing an analog FOH. As long as I don't have to move it or wire it I am happy.
 
Re: Analog comeback?

Brandon Blakeney said:
If I know some of the people here, ya'll are ready to pounce on me. :) But you should know that I now own an M7 that I'm using for monitors.

But back to the topic at hand, I noticed in the October edition of Pro Sound News that Dierks Bentley and Eric Church are now carrying Midas Analog at FOH. The reason I even bring this up is that I could have sworn that both of these artists were previously using digital consoles.
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The artists you mention (as well as Steely Dan and some others) are in the unique position of being able and afford the logistics of carrying the large analog gear (I doubt they have to actually move it). You won't see that very much and you will see it less and less as even the the most popular of national acts will, at some point, face the reality of shrinking budgets. At some point, the artist(s) will realize where the audience appreciates some extra expense applied to enhance (in some minds, anyway) the live show. Unfortunately, on several fronts, they are playing more and more to audiences raised on MP3 music and mega-watts of intelligent lighting, video, and projection. So guess where that leaves the analog gear?

There's also the fact that you can't buy new versions of those analog consoles as well as an increasing number of the analog processing gear (no more Proteas???). Sure, there is, or soon will be, a cottage industry that specializes in maintaining the older analog gear (and frankly, I shudder at the thought of spending a week refurbing a Series Five, but it might have to happen). That will be quite expensive to deal with. Only the very most popular mega-selling artists will be able to afford to carry a large analog console and associated gear.

Besides. you mentioned the two artists carrying analog rigs (and I even mentioned one, as well). Does that negate the fact that Robert Scovil and Big Mick, among other nationally-known FOH guys, carry and specify digital desks? Hardly, I think. So I'd be careful getting my hopes up about an analog console comeback. As I've mentioned before ad nauseum, I don't really care one way or the other any more, but I do keep up with the trends going on and these observations are not hard to see at all.

Brandon, I'd advertise as far and as wide as I could that you have an H3 available for rent. There's not many more around and not one for a long way around us. However, MAKE DAMN SURE you keep it in good shape. Not much will slay your reputation worse than sending out a glitchy analog console and yours, as will any of them, will require more and more TLC as time goes on. But you might be able to make some good money with it, at least for the foreseeable future.

By the way, is it interesting to note that while Steely Dan is carrying an XL4 for FOH, they have a Soundcraft Vi6 digital desk for monitors? Maybe, maybe not...

Good luck.
 
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Re: Analog comeback?

I expect some time in the near future that someone will make a hybrid DSP. All analog signal paths digitally controlled.

You could use one of the new digital rack mixers and take the submixes thru an old desk to get the best of both. Sure would shrink the Proc rack that was mostly digital for years allready.

Put some tube comp limiters to use as line drive to the amps.

As far as analog making a comeback, old LPs are flying off the shelves at my wifes antique shop.
http:\\www.blackswanantiquities.com (shameless plug)
 
Re: Analog comeback?

Josh Millward said:
Digitally controlled analog has been done already.

It was done years ago actually. In 1998 Jim Gamble introduced the Gamble DCX, a digitally controlled analog console. Check out the link... it is pretty cool, though the newer user interfaces are a lot better than the CRT screen and mouse from 1998.
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And I believe the ShowConsole, made by Harrison for Showco, was a hybrid as well. IIRC, the analog bits lived in a rack onstage and a surface out front had control. I got to play with one for a few minutes when I was in the right place at the right time on an InSync tour that came through here. Long, long time ago.

At the time, the stage inputs were split between the ShowConsole and a pair of Midas's directly behind the ShowConsole. An XL4 and XL3. There was a system guy mixing with phones on the two backups and there was a panel with inputs to the processors for all the consoles. The mix could be switched from the ShowConsole to the two Midas's with, well, a flip of the switch. The system guy told me that as of that show, the need to switch consoles had never happened.
 
Re: Analog comeback?

Glenn Adams said:
As far as analog making a comeback, old LPs are flying off the shelves at my wifes antique shop.
http:\\www.blackswanantiquities.com (shameless plug)
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A comeback of a flat 12"x12" record disc is a little different than a comeback of a 6-7ft 550-lb analog mixer. That doesn't exactly fly off of shelves (You already know that, I'm sorry, it's a good day to be cheeky...:o)
 
Re: Analog comeback?

OK, my first answer got eaten by the WWW so I'll try again more briefly.

Live sound reinforcement is far more practical than hifi hipsters pursuing nostalgia (vinyl).

While there may still be some lingering preference for old school analog, there is little actual benefit and in fact digital can be higher performance, but the real game changer is that digital is far more flexible. Just making an analog console remote control is only part of the digital benefit, and quite expensive for that partial solution.

I have done some work with digitally controlled analog, and it just isn't worth the expense when you can get good quality A/D conversion so inexpensively these days. Once control surfaces migrate to external computing devices the cost will fall even more.

JR

PS: the market has spoken, analog console makers have already seen declines.
 
Re: Analog comeback?

The advantage of having every outboard option on every channel in a digital desk is a huge advantage. The quality difference in a large venue that you will hear between a high quality analog console and a high quality digital console will be very close to zero. Now, if you have the budget to put together your entire analog rig with outboard, have the resources to move it around, and are comfortable operating it for the show, there's nothing wrong with that. I could see it on large tours where the show is pretty consistent. For one offs or fast changing shows, the advantage of the flexibility of a digital system far outweighs the possible minor improvement in sound quality because of all analog gear.

In studio environments, there will always be the analog folks. There you've got more time to tweak and make things happen. Once you're in a live situation, not so much.
 
Re: Analog comeback?

surely the XL8 is the solution to analogue die-hards. It combines all the advantages of digital with the familiar weight, movement issues and racks of analogue mixing systems :razz:
 
Re: Analog comeback?

The warmth and sound of analog is one thing I really like, but my main issue is not being able to see everything on a digital console. I was helping a friend out on a gig a few weeks ago with a small soundcraft digital mixer at FOH (and for monitors), the next week I was back on my analog console and it was so much more comfortable. I know "what you're used to" has something to do with it, but it just didn't feel right. I also hate the way the meters work on a digital console....if you're going to turn amber and red at least mean it :)
 
Re: Analog comeback?

Brandon Blakeney;86971 I also hate the way the meters work on a digital console....if you're going to turn amber and red at least mean it :)[/QUOTE said:
Before all the light-guys switch over to LED - get some strips of color gel and glue them on top of you meters - THEN you can go up to red for one or two led´s
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Re: Analog comeback?

I am sure there always will be a market for high-end analog consoles, and for those who have invested in one, and have their hearts in it, it will probably make sense to pick up spare units as more and more consoles are being sold off at diminishing prices.
 
Re: Analog comeback?

Per Søvik said:
I am sure there always will be a market for high-end analog consoles, and for those who have invested in one, and have their hearts in it, it will probably make sense to pick up spare units as more and more consoles are being sold off at diminishing prices.
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Are you disagreeing with yourself?

"there will always be a market for high end consoles" but "more consoles are being sold off at diminishing prices". Diminishing prices suggest collapsing demand. Falling demand is not consistent with long term availability.

JR
 
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