Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Steve Brindley said:
Thanks for your reply Tim

I will be checking out our rack and make sure it's all grounded as well as it can be ! Any suggestions on extra grounding these s16s?

I can't however see how having an ethercon can be any different to the new VDC cable I got other than the xlr style chassis to protect the connector???? This is why I am confused that a brand new cable that's shielded didn't work yet my unshielded one did?

Sometimes when we switch off and back on again we got two different displays
One was red as described earlier and the other time it went green but had n/n on the display and the screen flickered all the time. The the sound popes through for less than a second every Minuit

Have you any other suggestions

Loving the name of the 'bitch mic' very aptd

Thanks for your help
Click to expand...

I think you may have 2 issues. First it's possible that your X32 and S16 are set for different sampling rates, i.e. the X32 is set for 44.1 and the S16 set for 48 or vice versa. On the X32 you should also set the clock source to be the S16 ( Setup > Config > Synchronization > AES50A ).

The other possible issue is that your new cable is miswired. There have been a couple of reports that some vendors have shipped "crossover" cables. AES50 does not do auto detect the way data devices do, so they will not work. If you have access to a data cable tester (can be continuity, not the $8000 Fluke) you can see how it's wired and if there are open connections. AES50 requires all 4 pairs.

As for power up sequence, I've not noticed anything odd. I power up both units before connecting the CAT5 cable, and it takes only a second to achieve sync.

Go and read the thread I linked to. Additional grounding and powering ideas have all been shot down as ineffective. As to what the Ethercon contributes, I am not qualified to say but it is required. The metal shield on the RJ45 is not sufficient by itself.

HTH.
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Hmmmm i think all our boxes are set to 48 but will check

I thought the X32 Had to be the syc master not the s16 ??? as i know our x32 is the master.

ok ill have a good read up! Thanks so much for your help and i will do all this on Sunday and feedback next week

Cheers
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Dear Steve,
You are correct that we recommend having the X32 set as the master sync. When doing so, the S16 sample rate does not need to be set as it will follow the X32. The most common configuration is to have the first S16 in “Mode 1” and the second in “Mode 2”, as described on page 9 of the manual which you can find here: http://www.behringer.com/assets/S16_M_EN.pdf


As has been stated here, we do recommend using shielded CAT5e with locking Ethercon ends. Be sure you are connecting to AES50(A) on the first S16. If you are still not getting sync, you may try using the other AES50 port on the X32. If you need any further assistance, please contact our CARE department at [email protected] or send me a message here so we can help.
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

John DiNicola said:
Dear Steve,
You are correct that we recommend having the X32 set as the master sync. When doing so, the S16 sample rate does not need to be set as it will follow the X32. The most common configuration is to have the first S16 in “Mode 1” and the second in “Mode 2”, as described on page 9 of the manual which you can find here: http://www.behringer.com/assets/S16_M_EN.pdf


As has been stated here, we do recommend using shielded CAT5e with locking Ethercon ends. Be sure you are connecting to AES50(A) on the first S16. If you are still not getting sync, you may try using the other AES50 port on the X32. If you need any further assistance, please contact our CARE department at [email protected] or send me a message here so we can help.
Click to expand...

John, my S16 will NOT sync if the X32 is the master.
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Tim McCulloch said:
John, my S16 will NOT sync if the X32 is the master.
Click to expand...

Dear Tim,
This should not be the case. When setting the X32 for local sync, have you checked that both S16s are in the proper mode for external sync? You can do so by pressing and holding the CONFIG button and rotating the SELECT/ADJUST encoder all the way to the left (at least 10 clicks) on the first S16. For the second, do the same but before releasing the CONFIG button turn the SELECT/ADJUST knob one click to the right so that the display shows 9-16.
While using an S16 as the Master is possible, it is intended for use in stand-alone mode.
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

John DiNicola said:
Dear Tim,
This should not be the case. When setting the X32 for local sync, have you checked that both S16s are in the proper mode for external sync? You can do so by pressing and holding the CONFIG button and rotating the SELECT/ADJUST encoder all the way to the left (at least 10 clicks) on the first S16. For the second, do the same but before releasing the CONFIG button turn the SELECT/ADJUST knob one click to the right so that the display shows 9-16.
While using an S16 as the Master is possible, it is intended for use in stand-alone mode.
Click to expand...

Yep, the S16 is set that way, but will not lock to the X32 if the X32 is master. Right now I have only 1 S16...

While you're here, John, will Behringer offer a CAT5e STP jumper (for 2 S16) along with the longer lengths?
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Tim McCulloch said:
Yep, the S16 is set that way, but will not lock to the X32 if the X32 is master. Right now I have only 1 S16...

While you're here, John, will Behringer offer a CAT5e STP jumper (for 2 S16) along with the longer lengths?
Click to expand...

I know you have a reason, but why not just get some standard CAT5e for that from your favorite cable supplier? It'll likely be cheaper, and if they are both going to be in a rack…… or are you speaking on two S16s at different points on stage?
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Max Warasila said:
I know you have a reason, but why not just get some standard CAT5e for that from your favorite cable supplier? It'll likely be cheaper, and if they are both going to be in a rack…… or are you speaking on two S16s at different points on stage?
Click to expand...

IIRC, using a UTP jumper left at least 1 S16 vulnerable to the ESD de-sync issue. Why risk it?

It's this type of corner cutting (or not cutting), the attention to details, that defines a particular level of professionalism. I don't want to be the guy that says to a client "well, the OTHER 16 channels stayed up, sorry about losing the PA drive..." because I was so cheap that I opted to use a 99 cent patch cable instead of the $20 cable specified by the manufacturer. If the manufacturer can supply the $20 patch cable for $12, I'll buy it from them but if not I'll get it anyway.

Retreaded tires are cheaper, they're round-rolling-rubber, but you can't use them on the steering axle of your truck... I wonder why? :roll: {actually, I know why... a failure could have catastrophic consequences}
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Tim McCulloch said:
IIRC, using a UTP jumper left at least 1 S16 vulnerable to the ESD de-sync issue. Why risk it?

It's this type of corner cutting (or not cutting), the attention to details, that defines a particular level of professionalism. I don't want to be the guy that says to a client "well, the OTHER 16 channels stayed up, sorry about losing the PA drive..." because I was so cheap that I opted to use a 99 cent patch cable instead of the $20 cable specified by the manufacturer. If the manufacturer can supply the $20 patch cable for $12, I'll buy it from them but if not I'll get it anyway.

Retreaded tires are cheaper, they're round-rolling-rubber, but you can't use them on the steering axle of your truck... I wonder why? :roll: {actually, I know why... a failure could have catastrophic consequences}
Click to expand...

It's not like you can't find STP cable out there, but I forgot that this is Music Group we're dealing with… I suppose it *might* be worth the $8 decrease if they can pull it off.
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

VDC are going to re do the ends and add the ethercon ends instead

my only concern still, is if this cable will work just by having these ends ???? But will give it a go
maybe I just got a dodgy one with a pin not connected

does still seem funny to me that my unshielded cable works but sheilded doesn't

will check all status and recommendations at the weekend thanks everyone
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Steve Brindley said:
VDC are going to re do the ends and add the ethercon ends instead

my only concern still, is if this cable will work just by having these ends ???? But will give it a go
maybe I just got a dodgy one with a pin not connected

does still seem funny to me that my unshielded cable works but sheilded doesn't

will check all status and recommendations at the weekend thanks everyone
Click to expand...

I think you either had a bad/wrong termination cable, or the wrong cable. It isn't the shield that caries the data.

Note from above the manufacturer states cat 5e STP with Ethercons. Anything else MAY NOT work.

So, there is more to the spec than UTP vs STP.

Sent from my iPad HD
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Hi

Ok, sunday went worse than imagined! Plugged into a different power suplly and had massive bangs from the speakers when plugged any electrical device in or out a socket in the venue!!!
Discovered they have earthing problems in their system that others had discovered before. (nice of them to tell us now lol)
So have brought two power conditioners to help (hoping this helps) i will run the two s16 of one and the desk of the other. My hope is to run all our rack from the power later but thought id just try the desk and s16s first.
Hence i lost two of my mid cones in the process due to the bangs (which im guessing was power spikes) so have to get them repaired.

With reguards the CAT5 - VDC ran test and found no problem but got them to add ethercon ends instead so hopefully the metal jacket around the RJ45 will help with earthing - i guess thats why they suggest it.

Im hopeing this weekend will go better and we wont have the power issues now we have conditioners in. brought samson pb10's

Yes i think there is more to the spec as you say! Chatting with my Telephone guy about cat5 and hey said the shielding must earth it as shielded cable has an earth wire in it. - If it works im buying him a beer! ;-)

Will keep you informed.

Any suggestions with power would help and how to earth a 19" rack

cheers
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Steve Brindley said:
Hi

Ok, sunday went worse than imagined! Plugged into a different power suplly and had massive bangs from the speakers when plugged any electrical device in or out a socket in the venue!!!
Discovered they have earthing problems in their system that others had discovered before. (nice of them to tell us now lol)
So have brought two power conditioners to help (hoping this helps) i will run the two s16 of one and the desk of the other. My hope is to run all our rack from the power later but thought id just try the desk and s16s first.
Hence i lost two of my mid cones in the process due to the bangs (which im guessing was power spikes) so have to get them repaired.

With reguards the CAT5 - VDC ran test and found no problem but got them to add ethercon ends instead so hopefully the metal jacket around the RJ45 will help with earthing - i guess thats why they suggest it.

Im hopeing this weekend will go better and we wont have the power issues now we have conditioners in. brought samson pb10's

Yes i think there is more to the spec as you say! Chatting with my Telephone guy about cat5 and hey said the shielding must earth it as shielded cable has an earth wire in it. - If it works im buying him a beer! ;-)

Will keep you informed.

Any suggestions with power would help and how to earth a 19" rack

cheers
Click to expand...

Steve,
You need licensed electrician with experience in audio installs not a power conditioner. However, voltage regulated UPS's are recommended for the console and stage boxes. As stated before, use Cat5e STP or better with Neutrik Ethercon connectors.

JP
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Steve Brindley said:
Hi

Ok, sunday went worse than imagined! Plugged into a different power suplly and had massive bangs from the speakers when plugged any electrical device in or out a socket in the venue!!!
Discovered they have earthing problems in their system that others had discovered before. (nice of them to tell us now lol)
So have brought two power conditioners to help (hoping this helps) i will run the two s16 of one and the desk of the other. My hope is to run all our rack from the power later but thought id just try the desk and s16s first.
Hence i lost two of my mid cones in the process due to the bangs (which im guessing was power spikes) so have to get them repaired.

With reguards the CAT5 - VDC ran test and found no problem but got them to add ethercon ends instead so hopefully the metal jacket around the RJ45 will help with earthing - i guess thats why they suggest it.

Im hopeing this weekend will go better and we wont have the power issues now we have conditioners in. brought samson pb10's

Yes i think there is more to the spec as you say! Chatting with my Telephone guy about cat5 and hey said the shielding must earth it as shielded cable has an earth wire in it. - If it works im buying him a beer! ;-)

Will keep you informed.

Any suggestions with power would help and how to earth a 19" rack

cheers
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, "power conditioners" don't really condition anything. Do you have a DSP? Setting limiters may save you a few drivers while you work this out.
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Even if you use an ups the ground is still connected to the building.

You need an isolation transformer if you have grounding issues. But then you have no means to route any static discharge to the ground so you need to provide your own ground...
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

yes we had the limiters off but will be putting them back on for time being.
there is obviously a power issue in the venue on that circuit for sure, as i plugged into a different circuit half way through and didn't do it at all, only small clicks and drop out at end of show when everyone was plugging out equipment.
so hoping with the conditioners will help regulate a constant power.
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Steve Brindley said:
so hoping with the conditioners will help regulate a constant power.
Click to expand...
That's not what power conditioners do. Most power conditioners use pretty ineffective "conditioning" circuitry that only helps with huge spikes, and frequently still let damaging power out. Only active voltage regulators and line-interactive UPS devices can truly help supply voltage problems. None of them will solve building wiring problems.
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

no i know it wont solve the problem! im just looking for way around as we use this building regular and its only shown itself since we have gone to the s16's
Im in there tomorrow testing so will have a real good look through everything - its hard when you only have the equipment in front of you once a week.

i will look into UPS devices if i cant find the problem tomorrow
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Steve Brindley said:
no i know it wont solve the problem! im just looking for way around as we use this building regular and its only shown itself since we have gone to the s16's
Im in there tomorrow testing so will have a real good look through everything - its hard when you only have the equipment in front of you once a week.

i will look into UPS devices if i cant find the problem tomorrow
Click to expand...

Steve,
You might have wiring issue in the building that might be dangerous. Do a Google search for Mike Sokol and information on "Reversed Polarity Bootleg Grounds". He explains how to properly measure an electrical system.

JP
 
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