Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

G

Gorka Aguirre Garate

Freshman
Sep 13, 2013
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Eibar
Hi;
I´ve a huge problem.


-X32 Firmware is v1.15. Same problem when it was v1.08.
-I plug 1 X32 and two S16 to the same well grounded socket; same phase for three of them.
-I use 2 Cat5e wires. One goes from AES50 Port A of the X32 to the first S16´s Port A socket.
-The second CAT5e wire goes from first S16´s Port B to second S16´s Port A.
-I set the Syncronization to "Local", and the sample rate to 44,1 KHz. Anyway, I´ve the same problem to 48 KHz.
-I set first S16 to "1-8", and the second one to "9-16".
-I route input channels (32 channels), and start working. Everything is fine.
-I record the Master Buss to a 2GB USB pen drive, formatted to Fat32. Same problem with a 2GB Fat16 pendrive. Same problem too without any pendrive inserted on X32.
-Link of the noise sample: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ad1c8dclm4e2xfe/X32 + 2xS16 Dropout and MASTER NOISE.mp3


PROBLEM:
Suddenly a 0DBFS "click" sounds in the Master buss. At the same time, sound stops. All channel´s "gate" red light (in the channel´s metering red light) switch on, even if the channel was not gated. 8 seconds later a super strange almost full range digital terrible noise (You have a Link with a sample below) increases exponentially reaching 0DBFS in the Master Buss. Doesn´t mind if I mute all channels, or if I do anything else. I can only go down with the Master Fader, and sound decreases acording to fader, but if I raise it keeps on sounding. The only way to stop this situation is shutdown the mixer. Synchro green lights are OK, recalling other scenes doesn´t work.


¿¿¿¿Any clue or solution????
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

First, go to your profile and change your name to your real first and last names, as required by forum rules.

Second, disconnect the second S16 for a moment. Turn off the first S16. At the X32, set the Synchronization to AES50A, then turn on the S16. They should lock in a couple of seconds. Then patch the second S16 and turn it on. It, too, should synch.
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Eliminate gear and cables one piece at a time.

Try to connect the s16's to the x32 A and B port. Does this trigger the condition?

Swap position of the s16’s in the chain.

When the condition occurs whar happens when you disconnect the last s16 and/or cable in the chain. What happens when the cable is disconnected from the x32?

Doing this troubleshooting should help you isolate where the issue may be.
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Hi Silas, I´ll check out other cables by now. Bad console is another option, sure. My name is Gorka Aguirre Garate, it´s a Basque language name, from the Basque Country. Many thanks!
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Tim McCulloch said:
First, go to your profile and change your name to your real first and last names, as required by forum rules.

Second, disconnect the second S16 for a moment. Turn off the first S16. At the X32, set the Synchronization to AES50A, then turn on the S16. They should lock in a couple of seconds. Then patch the second S16 and turn it on. It, too, should synch.
Click to expand...
Hi Tim;
My name´s Gorka Aguirre Garate, it´s a Basque language name, from the Basque Country. In english it would be "George Agirre Garate".
I tried your way, but it doesn´t synch. What modes do you recommend to set on the S16-s? Thanks a lot
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Robert Lofgren said:
Eliminate gear and cables one piece at a time. I´m doing those tests, sure. I´ll explain my results in a few days. By now, I´ve the same problem, except when:
1) I´ve set the x32 without S16-s
2) I´ve set the "Second" S16" (the one has always been in the second position in the S16 cascade) from AES50 Port A in X32 to AES50 Port A in S16. The synch was set to local once again. Sample rate to 44,1 KHz. I suspect the "first" S16 is a little bit "ill", even if both are completely new. Now, I´m testing the first S16 with the Cat5e wire I´ve used with the second S16.

Try to connect the s16's to the x32 A and B port. Does this trigger the condition? Same problem, I´ve tried this point.

Swap position of the s16’s in the chain. I´ll check this! I´ll tell you the result. Thanks.

When the condition occurs whar happens when you disconnect the last s16 and/or cable in the chain. What happens when the cable is disconnected from the x32? The super noise remains. To stop the noise, I´ve to change "Sample Rate" in Setup Config, or I have to shutdown and restart the x32. In both cases the X32 is restarted anyway.

Doing this troubleshooting should help you isolate where the issue may be.
Click to expand...
I´m working on that, so many thanks!
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

If the x32 still is putting out noice when the cable is pulled from the x32 this sounds like an issue with your x32.

The x32 should detect that the s16 is disconnected and mute all inputs. This means that either is your x32 not healthy or you've found a bug in the firmware/fpga.

The noise issue somewhat sounds like what happens when other people has provoked a disturbance with the data flow by pulling the ethernet cable in some situations. And to my recollection it only happened when using two s16’s.

If this is the case you may have two issues. First: You could have one/many faulty cables or a bad s16 that corrupts the data stream. Second: The bad data stream triggers an condition within the x32 that makes it do something stupid and is unable to recoupe.

Can you try another x32 to verify any hardware issue with your own x32?

Tell us what you find.
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Robert Lofgren said:
If the x32 still is putting out noice when the cable is pulled from the x32 this sounds like an issue with your x32. At first I agree with you.

The x32 should detect that the s16 is disconnected and mute all inputs. This means that either is your x32 not healthy or you've found a bug in the firmware/fpga. May be, I keep on searching.

The noise issue somewhat sounds like what happens when other people has provoked a disturbance with the data flow by pulling the ethernet cable in some situations. And to my recollection it only happened when using two s16’s. OK, I understand.

If this is the case you may have two issues. First: You could have one/many faulty cables or a bad s16 that corrupts the data stream. It´s a possibility, yes. Both Cat5e wires are new, anyway I´ve made two 6 hour test only with my "first" S16 with the same Cat5e wire; in the first test I got the huge problem, but not in the second test!!. Evenmore, when I got the huge problem in the first test, I only got the noise, but channels were not "gated" as I explained in my first post, this time, and after 15 seconds of the master buss noise, everything turned to normal, and the system kept working fine! I mean; I didn´t have to reset the sample rate or the X32.
Second: The bad data stream triggers an condition within the x32 that makes it do something stupid and is unable to recoupe. That seems the problem, yes, I´m still checking. I´m gonna test the first S16 only, with another Cat5e wire, cause it makes sense that the actual Cat5e wire I use in the first S16 is a little bit crazy, and might be causing this problem.

Can you try another x32 to verify any hardware issue with your own x32? I´ll try, not easy for me at this moment. I´ll try the Cat5e wire stuff, and if the problem is still there, I´m going to try with another X32.

Tell us what you find.
Click to expand...
So many thanks to everybody, I keep on testing, and informing you about all the results.
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Robert Lofgren said:
Eliminate gear and cables one piece at a time. I´m doing those tests, sure. I´ll explain my results in a few days. By now, I´ve the same problem, except when:
1) I´ve set the x32 without S16-s
2) I´ve set the "Second" S16" (the one has always been in the second position in the S16 cascade) from AES50 Port A in X32 to AES50 Port A in S16. The synch was set to local once again. Sample rate to 44,1 KHz. I suspect the "first" S16 is a little bit "ill", even if both are completely new. Now, I´m testing the first S16 with the Cat5e wire I´ve used with the second S16.
3) I´ve made two 6 hour test only with my "first" S16 with the same Cat5e wire; in the first test I got the huge problem, but not in the second test!!. Evenmore, when I got the huge problem in the first test, I only got the noise, but channels were not "gated" as I explained in my first post, this time, and after 15 seconds of the master buss noise, everything turned to normal, and the system kept working fine! I mean; I didn´t have to reset the sample rate or the X32.

Try to connect the s16's to the x32 A and B port. Does this trigger the condition? Same problem, I´ve tried this point.

Swap position of the s16’s in the chain. I´ll check this! I´ll tell you the result. Thanks. I´ve tried this; the same problem remains.

When the condition occurs whar happens when you disconnect the last s16 and/or cable in the chain. What happens when the cable is disconnected from the x32? The super noise remains. To stop the noise, I´ve to change "Sample Rate" in Setup Config, or I have to shutdown and restart the x32. In both cases the X32 is restarted anyway.

Doing this troubleshooting should help you isolate where the issue may be.
Click to expand...
I´m working on that, so many thanks!

I update the answers in BLUE colour.

 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Dear Gorka,

Most probably your X32 has a defective main board and urgently needs servicing. Please get in touch with our Music Group CARE department in UK.
Go to www.mg-center.com and click on UK Warranty Request. The colleagues are very supportive and will help you to get it fixed asap. I have already made them aware of your problem.

Best,
Jan
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Hi to everybody in this post;
So many thanks for helping, I appreciate it so much.
I´ve made more tests. The thing is that without S16-s, the noise problem has appeared now (didn´t do that before in my tests, even if testing for several hours...). I attach the scene with Local inputs tests, if somebody wants to check the fx feedback problem or whatever.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7v5vapai8irdety/TEST X32 Local44.scn

This is the noise I get; the second noise appeared two hours later from first one. Notice about the "click" just before the 0dbfs noise:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/78birjg8dksduc5/X32 standalone click&noise 1.mp3
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qb67x3o8b...ick&noise 2 (2 hours later from numbre 1).mp3

But the sound dropout, and "gate" and "pre" lights turned to "ON" doesn´t happen with only the X32 standalone, without S16-s.

I´m already in touch with Behringer Care people, who are being absolutely nice and responsible.

I´ll inform with the resolution of my problem. I think it´s a bad X32 unit stuff, no more. There are thousands of X32 out there, and give no problems and everybody talks very good things about this desk, for sure.

Best,
Gorka
 
Last edited:
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Hi everybody;
I sent my X32 to Behringer Care people. They sent it back completely reviewed and deeply tested, and since then my X32 is working perfectly, every problem dissapeared, and is giving it´s best with great results.

So many thanks to everybody who tried helping me, and specially to Behringer for resolving my problem quickly.

Best,

Gorka
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Just for reference, what was the total turnaround time, from when you sent it to when you got it back?

Jason
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

I am new to this site and maybe this has already been spoke about but we have a similar problem

we installed our two s16 last week and I used a standard cheap cat5 unshielded cable around 40m to connect the two
we are operating the latest firmware (not new beta version) and connected fine as per manual
now every now and then we get a signal loss and all sound cuts out for about a second - there is no pattern to it but if we trod on the cable it done it. So I put it down to the cheap cable.
So I brought a 30m shielded van dam cable and went to plug it in and it would not recognise it, we got a red light on the x32 and screen flickers but it won't connect to the s16 yet I plug in my own cheap cat 5 cable and it connects????
Is there a special cable needed for this as in the manual it doesn't really state anything....

Also is there a boot up sequence as when everything was on and we changed cables back by just unplugging them we then had no signal coming out of the s16's to our IEM wireless body packs ???. So we restarted the s16's and hey presto it worked. So I wondered if thee was a boot up sequence recommended for the system.

Would like so e I put on this so I can sort by the weekend


thanks for taking the time to read this

cheers

steve
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Steve Brindley said:
I am new to this site and maybe this has already been spoke about but we have a similar problem

we installed our two s16 last week and I used a standard cheap cat5 unshielded cable around 40m to connect the two
we are operating the latest firmware (not new beta version) and connected fine as per manual
now every now and then we get a signal loss and all sound cuts out for about a second - there is no pattern to it but if we trod on the cable it done it. So I put it down to the cheap cable.
So I brought a 30m shielded van dam cable and went to plug it in and it would not recognise it, we got a red light on the x32 and screen flickers but it won't connect to the s16 yet I plug in my own cheap cat 5 cable and it connects????
Is there a special cable needed for this as in the manual it doesn't really state anything....

Also is there a boot up sequence as when everything was on and we changed cables back by just unplugging them we then had no signal coming out of the s16's to our IEM wireless body packs ???. So we restarted the s16's and hey presto it worked. So I wondered if thee was a boot up sequence recommended for the system.

Would like so e I put on this so I can sort by the weekend


thanks for taking the time to read this

cheers

steve
Click to expand...

There is an extensive thread in the Jr. Varsity forum - almost 9,000 replies as of right now - that has some info. Over at ProSoundWeb, this thread: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected? discusses the drop outs, investigation and solution.

Your experience (stepping on the cable) is not unique but turned out to be almost impossible to replicate under controlled conditions. Much more common and repeatable was ESD. The mechanical abuse problem has defied solution because under test, creating a failure required near destruction of the cable. IIRC they even flattened out some with a fork lift and it still worked. The tests were done by the Pacific North West Audio Engineering Society chapter in Seattle.

ESD is another matter. Behringer finally came out and specified shielded CAT5e with Ethercon connectors and recommended a ProCo model (which I have used without incident, including last weekend). Berry is soon to offer their own STP CAT5e on a cable drum.

We had an act recently that brought an X32/S16 setup. I helped run the snake (UTP) and asked the BE if he'd had loss of sync from the S16 due to static electricity. No, never, he said. Of course it then happened twice that night, and the second time we noticed the bass player at the "bitch mic" (separate mic used to communicate with the monitor engineer). Nice rugs on the stage. Player later commented that he noticed a lot of static electricity...
 
Re: Behringer X32 + 2x S16 huge problem

Thanks for your reply Tim


I will be checking out our rack and make sure it's all grounded as well as it can be ! Any suggestions on extra grounding these s16s?


I can't however see how having an ethercon can be any different to the new VDC cable I got other than the xlr style chassis to protect the connector???? This is why I am confused that a brand new cable that's shielded didn't work yet my unshielded one did?


Sometimes when we switch off and back on again we got two different displays
One was red as described earlier and the other time it went green but had n/n on the display and the screen flickered all the time. The the sound popes through for less than a second every Minuit


Have you any other suggestions


Loving the name of the 'bitch mic' very aptd


Thanks for your help
 
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