Bid Protocol Question

D

Dave Rickard

Freshman
Jan 29, 2011
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Wild West
I don't want to go into details on the open forum, but--

Does anyone see any issues with bidding a small show as "50% of the lowest bid"?

I'm not worried about profit on this one, I just don't want to get bitten by something I didn't see/know.

Thanks in advance.
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

Dave Rickard said:
I don't want to go into details on the open forum, but--

Does anyone see any issues with bidding a small show as "50% of the lowest bid"?

I'm not worried about profit on this one, I just don't want to get bitten by something I didn't see/know.

Thanks in advance.
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Any customer who is ok with accepting a bid like that is probably not someone you want to work for :)

Jason
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

He expounded a little bit on the other forum.. basically a "We will do the job for pennies if you'll just let us show you why we want to be your long term vendor."

In that case, I usually actually do it either for absolute free, or for "cost of labor only." I want to be sure there's no way the customer can believe this is the price he'll be getting, going forward.
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

Doing the event for free or extremely reduced at a 'new' venue to show your abilities in the effort to show your skills makes sense. If they already have established a relationship with another company, and they take you up on the offer, you can be sure that when the next guy comes around, they will do the same to you. Unless there are significant problems with the existing company, they likely won't hire you unless your price is lower anyway.
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

Brian jojade said:
Doing the event for free or extremely reduced at a 'new' venue to show your abilities in the effort to show your skills makes sense.
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I will continue to disagree with such statements while supporting the folks who make them. The quickest way to the bottom follows from this kind of thinking.....for everyone, not to mention how unfair it is to your other clients who do not get the same "bargain" rate. We all should know by now that once you establish a price at whatever level you will be stuck with it. Promises from the favored new "client" of a bump next time are generally worthless.

Let's all just cease donating the agricultural homestead........
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

I would never accept the lowest bid from a company I did not have a relationship with. A company that does a show at a loss will likely not bring the right gear, have the ability to support the show properly with spares, last minute changes, sufficient labour, maintenance, etc. etc. When they mess up, they make me look bad. Not worth having a bad show to save a few bucks.

I'll always take the middle quote, or more likely, the quote from the company that I have a relationship with.
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

Andrew Broughton said:
I would never accept the lowest bid from a company I did not have a relationship with. A company that does a show at a loss will likely not bring the right gear, have the ability to support the show properly with spares, last minute changes, sufficient labour, maintenance, etc. etc. When they mess up, they make me look bad. Not worth having a bad show to save a few bucks.

I'll always take the middle quote, or more likely, the quote from the company that I have a relationship with.
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Sometimes you don't have a choice. With the schools in NY, when a project goes out to bid, it has to be published in a local newspaper for 2 weeks. A bunch of the local companies will submit a bid, and the lowest one gets it, regardless of the quality of work they plan on doing. At least that's how I've experienced the system.
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

David Karol said:
Sometimes you don't have a choice. With the schools in NY, when a project goes out to bid, it has to be published in a local newspaper for 2 weeks. A bunch of the local companies will submit a bid, and the lowest one gets it, regardless of the quality of work they plan on doing. At least that's how I've experienced the system.
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A similar system is in place with bids made to state or county purchasers here.

I'm sure these systems prevent some foul play, but they also discourage businesses from putting any extra effort into the "X-factor"...
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

We used to get requests from the regional school board to bid on instruments, accessories, some PA gear. The requests were usually along the lines of "need 2 handheld wireless microphones" or some such generic request. No models # or anything. I would put a bid in of the cheapest piece of Behringer or similar since I knew that the competition was doing the same, but I would also add a bid for a slightly better/more expensive unit and explain why I thought this would be a better alternative for them. I actually got quite a few of the contracts this way.
Then they changed it up. They now provide exact models to bid on, and it's a race to the bottom. Some of the stuff they request is bizarre.
I think the last one I bid on was for a system they were putting together....I don't know who would have though that putting 2x) 18" powered Yorville subs, 2x M-Audio powered studio Monitors, some Phonic mixer and a bunch of other stuff that made no sense....and I recall on that one they requested a specific mic boom stand -with model number- but without the boom. I think on that one we priced it all out and bid it as one number. You know they're crunching numbers when they want it line item. Ooooh, I might have won the contract for the pair of $20 headphones they wanted on that bid.
We don't even bother any more. Too much time is wasted on too little profit.

One other funny thing, they email all their contractors the bid requests- but the the whole recipient list is visible- so you know exactly who you're up against. I don't mind that, but it's odd.
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

Many public expenditures over a certain dollar amount are supposed to be competitively bid. In some cases you can 'sole source' goods or services but you may have to advertise the intent to do so and allow others to respond. On many of my projects there is also a mandatory pre-bid, a meeting you must attend in order for your bid to even be considered.

One secret to these situations is good bid documents, documents that adequately define the work and products expected while also leaving some flexibility where appropriate. The other secret is enforcing those documents and making sure that what is bid and provided complies with the Contract documents and terms. The latter is where I often experience problems with Owners accepting products or work that deviates from what was defined to be provided. There are some out there who make a living by using that approach, bidding low and seeing just how much they can get away with.
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

Thanks for the ideas guys, I really appreciate it. Here's some more info.

*Bidding a percentage is definitely out. Dick Rees was quick to point out that it's probably illegal (Thanks again). Others pointed out why it's just not a good idea in general.

*It's a new venue with a 6-show concert series, and I got seriously low-balled on the first show. The gear used was definitely not on our level. Not sure the other provider can sustain, but my foot is not even in the door. They plan to run a series every year.

*I'd like to demonstrate our capabilities before relationships are firmed up. Introductory offer. Regular rates after that. I'm prepared to walk away after that, but I will have tried. Next show is an acoustic solo act, not a large band, so that comes into play also.

*The question about existing clients is a great question. Possible trouble there. I really need to ponder that.

*I have no desire to race to the bottom. That would be shooting myself in the foot, but the race has already started. I'd like to show the operators why the bottom is not a good place to be for them either, but I can't do that until they hear a difference.

"Sometimes you don't realize how dull your knife is until you borrow a really sharp one." That's the bottom line.

I'll follow up later to share the results.
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

Brad Weber said:
One secret to these situations is good bid documents, documents that adequately define the work and products expected while also leaving some flexibility where appropriate
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As the other side of the equation that Brad speaks of (ie. the purchaser), I concur that good bid documents will go much further in getting you a contract than presenting the lowest price. Contrary to popular belief, (in Texas at least), we are not required to select the lowest bid. We must choose the "best value", with cost usually weighted about 20%.

There will usually be a list of criteria and how they are weighted in a good RFP, and the company that presents a proposal explicitly and simply explaining how they will fulfill those requirements will get a second look for sure. It shows that they have read and understood the parts of the technical spec that we care about.

If the customer is looking for the lowest price above all, it's probably not going to be a very fulfilling gig to have. Look forward to seeing how this works out for Dave.
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

Dave,

Instead of trying to set it up so you go in and do one of there shows, it might be better if you can invite them as guests to another event you are doing as an "audition". Just make it clear that they will be observers and you will be 100% focused on your clients for that event.
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

Hello,

Scanning through the posts.... I did see the standard requirements from many Schools, City, State, and Federal Agencies to post an advertisement in local Newspapers regarding a bid process and bid requirement package.... but, I didn't see an posts regarding the Contractor to post a performance bond. (generally for installs only)

Doesn't anyone ever encounter a requirement to post a bond in order to receive a contract?

Hammer
 
Re: Bid Protocol Question

Consider inviting "the committee" or whomever to one of your quality gigs, and have them come in early to witness the way your crew works, the way you deal with the artist and client. Treat them to lunch and swag them in some way. If Brand X is as lame as you indicate the prospect should easily see the difference. Whether or not they're willing to pay for that difference is still up in the air, but you're not out any profit or risking an existing client by doing this.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
 
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