So I have a bluegrass festival coming up in August and I don't have much experience with this genre...any tips and tricks from you all?
Thanks!
Jared
Thanks!
Jared
Bluegrass festival
- Thread starter Jared Koopman
- Start date
Re: Bluegrass festival
Some bands will want just one mic.... Some bands will carry that one mic... Think large diaphragm type mic. Be prepared.
Not everyone, if anyone, will have instruments with pickups. Be prepared to mic several acoustic instruments if they aren't a '1 mic' kinda bluegrass band.
Don't forget your HPF, especially in mon world. Mons can get interesting. Don't try and give them too much, let them tell you what they need and don't push it. Lots of potential for feedback if you don't mind your P's and Q's.... which is true of FOH as well. Some might not even want mons on.
I remember one bluegrass festival I did and one of the many groups that hadn't provided an input list was prepping offstage while another band was on. I asked them about their stage setup and one of them quickly gave me a verbal input list while pointing-
"Pickin' mic, sangin' mic... pickin' mic, sangin' mic, pickin' mic, sangin' mic...."
Told me exactly what I needed to know...
Some bands will want just one mic.... Some bands will carry that one mic... Think large diaphragm type mic. Be prepared.
Not everyone, if anyone, will have instruments with pickups. Be prepared to mic several acoustic instruments if they aren't a '1 mic' kinda bluegrass band.
Don't forget your HPF, especially in mon world. Mons can get interesting. Don't try and give them too much, let them tell you what they need and don't push it. Lots of potential for feedback if you don't mind your P's and Q's.... which is true of FOH as well. Some might not even want mons on.
I remember one bluegrass festival I did and one of the many groups that hadn't provided an input list was prepping offstage while another band was on. I asked them about their stage setup and one of them quickly gave me a verbal input list while pointing-
"Pickin' mic, sangin' mic... pickin' mic, sangin' mic, pickin' mic, sangin' mic...."
Told me exactly what I needed to know...
Re: Bluegrass festival
How much excruciating detail do you want? As Alan H intimates, this is an easy genre to screw up. If you do it right it can be some of the most musically rewarding work you'll do.
First: bluegrass is a fairly intimate genre, I call it back porch music. Your job is to take that intimacy and interplay and share it with the audience; you spread the love, so to speak.
Second: that means "don't rock and roll". Don't add HF to the mandolin or fiddle, you probably don't need to put a hump at 60Hz in the bass. You want the instruments to sound acoustic. If you don't know what the instruments are supposed to sound like, hire a mixerperson who does. You're screwed without familiarity of the instrument sounds. "Don't Rock" also applies to overall SPL. It's inappropriate for the genre and can give you ulcers fighting the feedback.
Third: count on 2 types of bands - the single mic (usually a LDC, AT3032 is popular, I use a Rode NT2) and "mic everything". We address the latter with what we call "pods". A pod consists of 1 vocal mic on a tall boom stand, 1 instrument mic (AT4041, AKG C-391, Okatava MK102) on a medium boom, and 1 active DI (Countryman FET85 or Radial J48); we have 4 pods across the downstage, 2 pods mid stage left & right. We also dedicate a line for upstage bass players and 3 lines for bluegrass drummers. The mid-stage pods can be moved around as necessary. You might get a hybrid act, one that uses primarily the LDC single mic, but wants 1 or 2 "walk up" mics for solos.
Fourth: have someone be your stage mic wrangler if you're doing monitors from FOH. This person needs to meet with a band representative well before they go on and suss out the stage plot and to tell the players "don't randomly grab mics, please stand where you'll play, and I'll put the mics out; feel free to position them to the sweet spot on your instrument." Give your wrangler a lavalier wireless mic and use your headphones to listen to him/her, and use talkback thru monitors to communicate with the stage. Have your wrangler on stage when setting monitor levels (you can hear what you're doing over his lav mic, just for a reality check) to translate from "bandspeak" to "tech".
There are several folks here that mix bluegrass and related genres - Jay Barracato, Dick Rees, John Halliburton all come to mind right away. I'm sure you'll get lots of advice. Do you have any specific questions?
How much excruciating detail do you want? As Alan H intimates, this is an easy genre to screw up. If you do it right it can be some of the most musically rewarding work you'll do.
First: bluegrass is a fairly intimate genre, I call it back porch music. Your job is to take that intimacy and interplay and share it with the audience; you spread the love, so to speak.
Second: that means "don't rock and roll". Don't add HF to the mandolin or fiddle, you probably don't need to put a hump at 60Hz in the bass. You want the instruments to sound acoustic. If you don't know what the instruments are supposed to sound like, hire a mixerperson who does. You're screwed without familiarity of the instrument sounds. "Don't Rock" also applies to overall SPL. It's inappropriate for the genre and can give you ulcers fighting the feedback.
Third: count on 2 types of bands - the single mic (usually a LDC, AT3032 is popular, I use a Rode NT2) and "mic everything". We address the latter with what we call "pods". A pod consists of 1 vocal mic on a tall boom stand, 1 instrument mic (AT4041, AKG C-391, Okatava MK102) on a medium boom, and 1 active DI (Countryman FET85 or Radial J48); we have 4 pods across the downstage, 2 pods mid stage left & right. We also dedicate a line for upstage bass players and 3 lines for bluegrass drummers. The mid-stage pods can be moved around as necessary. You might get a hybrid act, one that uses primarily the LDC single mic, but wants 1 or 2 "walk up" mics for solos.
Fourth: have someone be your stage mic wrangler if you're doing monitors from FOH. This person needs to meet with a band representative well before they go on and suss out the stage plot and to tell the players "don't randomly grab mics, please stand where you'll play, and I'll put the mics out; feel free to position them to the sweet spot on your instrument." Give your wrangler a lavalier wireless mic and use your headphones to listen to him/her, and use talkback thru monitors to communicate with the stage. Have your wrangler on stage when setting monitor levels (you can hear what you're doing over his lav mic, just for a reality check) to translate from "bandspeak" to "tech".
There are several folks here that mix bluegrass and related genres - Jay Barracato, Dick Rees, John Halliburton all come to mind right away. I'm sure you'll get lots of advice. Do you have any specific questions?
Re: Bluegrass festival
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]If you have a persistent signal or feedback problem with a soundboard instrument (or banjo) an AKG C411 is very useful to have in the toolbox.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]If you have a persistent signal or feedback problem with a soundboard instrument (or banjo) an AKG C411 is very useful to have in the toolbox.[/FONT]
Re: Bluegrass festival
Thanks all for the advice.
I currently have in my mic locker:
Thanks all for the advice.
I currently have in my mic locker:
| Shure / Beta58A (QTY 7) |
| Shure / Beta57A (QTY 3) |
| Shure / Beta 91A (QTY 1) |
| Shure / ULXD4Q (QTY 1) |
| Shure / ULCXD2 (QTY 1) |
| Shure / ULCXD2 (QTY 1) |
| Shure / ULCXD2 (QTY 1) |
| Shure / ULCXD2 (QTY 1) |
| Shure / ULXD1 (QTY 1) |
| Shure / SB900-8 Battery Pack (QTY 8) |
| Shure / SB200-US Docking Charger |
| Shure / SB200 Docking Charger |
| Shure / WCE6IT Country Man |
| Shure / SM58 (QTY 2) |
| Audix / DP7 - Audix 7-Mic Drum Mic Package (QTY 1) |
| Audix / ADX51 (QTY 1) |
| Heil / PR40 Bass Guitar (QTY 1) |
| Heil / PR30 Guitar (QTY 1) |
| Beyerdynamics / M88 TG (QTY 1) |
| Beyerdynamics / M88 TG (QTY 1) |
| Sennheiser / MD 424II (QTY 1) |
| Countryman / Type 85 DI (Bass & Keys) (QTY 4) |
| iSEMcon / Omnidirectional Real-Time Analyzer Microphone (QTY 1) Shure SM58 x4 (QTY 4) Shure Sm57 (QTY 4) AT Pro37 (QTY 2) Audix DP5 Kit (QTY 1) Heil PR22UT (QTY 2) Sennheiser E945 (QTY 1) Sennheiser E935 (QTY 1) MXL 2001 (QTY 1) I didn't have a specific question at this time, just wanted some general info. I appreciate all the insight so far. |
Re: Bluegrass festival
Three things that immediately jump to mind are:
Set up a separate MC mic on a stand at one side of the stage. If you don't it is guaranteed that the mc will talk and talk and talk when you need to be moving that mic for the next act.
Route your channels so you have an instrument group and vocal group. Dropping the instrument mics 20 db between songs goes a long way to clearing up the spoken portion of the show.
Set your system eq for the foh and wedges according to what the individual mics need. Then have a separate channel for the LDC and insert an extra eq on just that channel. That way you are not scrambling to change between the LDC and individual mics.
If you can manage it extra speakers as sidefills work better with the one mic technique and also help clean up the wedges which typically overlap too much on most festival stages for my taste.
You didn't say if this was regional acts or national acts but that will also determine the level of expectations.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
Three things that immediately jump to mind are:
Set up a separate MC mic on a stand at one side of the stage. If you don't it is guaranteed that the mc will talk and talk and talk when you need to be moving that mic for the next act.
Route your channels so you have an instrument group and vocal group. Dropping the instrument mics 20 db between songs goes a long way to clearing up the spoken portion of the show.
Set your system eq for the foh and wedges according to what the individual mics need. Then have a separate channel for the LDC and insert an extra eq on just that channel. That way you are not scrambling to change between the LDC and individual mics.
If you can manage it extra speakers as sidefills work better with the one mic technique and also help clean up the wedges which typically overlap too much on most festival stages for my taste.
You didn't say if this was regional acts or national acts but that will also determine the level of expectations.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
Re: Bluegrass festival
Headliner is a 2014 Grammy nominated band, the rest are regional.
Headliner is a 2014 Grammy nominated band, the rest are regional.
Re: Bluegrass festival
That makes it easy. Advance the show with the national act and give them what they want. The regionals can work around that in the basic format Tim and I described.
If you need a heads up for the national or need a contact with their management to advance the show, let me know. A pm is fine. I have mixed 3/5 and been on shows with the other two. 2 of them typically have their own FOH these days, two do not, and the other has just been through some health/personal/band shakeup problems so I have no idea on that one
That makes it easy. Advance the show with the national act and give them what they want. The regionals can work around that in the basic format Tim and I described.
If you need a heads up for the national or need a contact with their management to advance the show, let me know. A pm is fine. I have mixed 3/5 and been on shows with the other two. 2 of them typically have their own FOH these days, two do not, and the other has just been through some health/personal/band shakeup problems so I have no idea on that one
Re: Bluegrass festival
Nice reply, Tim. Thanks. I do mostly acoustic, and learned quite a bit from this reply alone.
Might make a nice sticky along with that from Jay and others.
frank
Nice reply, Tim. Thanks. I do mostly acoustic, and learned quite a bit from this reply alone.
Might make a nice sticky along with that from Jay and others.
frank
Re: Bluegrass festival
Your "mixing" will vary from band to band. Bands that use a single mic could be just that one mic for everything, no mixing there on your part other than to get the needed gain on the mic. Some one mic bands will use a separate input for the bass, the type of bass could be anything.
Bands that that go with individual mics for vocals and instruments may need to be "mixed" or some bands will individually work the mics mixing themselves, if you get any band who work the instrument mics to mix themselves find the average level for each of the instruments and let them do the rest.
Bands going down the modern bluegrass road may have pickups in the instruments complete with pedals and amps.
In the world of bluegrass when a musician takes a break it's a solo not stepping out back for a smoke and a drink!
Your "mixing" will vary from band to band. Bands that use a single mic could be just that one mic for everything, no mixing there on your part other than to get the needed gain on the mic. Some one mic bands will use a separate input for the bass, the type of bass could be anything.
Bands that that go with individual mics for vocals and instruments may need to be "mixed" or some bands will individually work the mics mixing themselves, if you get any band who work the instrument mics to mix themselves find the average level for each of the instruments and let them do the rest.
Bands going down the modern bluegrass road may have pickups in the instruments complete with pedals and amps.
In the world of bluegrass when a musician takes a break it's a solo not stepping out back for a smoke and a drink!
Re: Bluegrass festival
Mike, thanks for a memory jog (good for 200 calories burned, IIRC) - in a previous century I was mixing my 4th or 5th acoustic/bluegrass fest and the next act on the bill was California (Dan Crary, Byron Berline, John Hickman, Steve Spurgeon, John Moore - great band). Dan came up to FOH and listened to about 10 minutes of my mixing the current act. Then he introduced himself and said "well, basically I like everything I'm hearing so this is what I want to do - we'll set monitors from your left to right across the stage, and when we do bring up each instrument to whatever you think solo level should be; EQ it, and leave the fader in position. Wave at us when you're ready to move on." We agreed, shook hands and he made his way back stage. He filled in my monitor guy on the process and we had the whole band ready in about 5 minutes. It was the best hour I never mixed.
Dan was very generous with his time later when we/I had dozens of questions about acoustic guitar tone. Several years later he delivered a wonderful compliment to my staff: "it's great to be on a stage where the sound crew knows what guitars are supposed to sound like!" Gee, Dan, I wonder how we got that way?*
Shameless plug for Dan's DVD "Primal Twang - The Legacy of the Guitar" http://dancrary.com/primal-twang/
* edit PS We really do stand on the backs of giants - the time shared by some incredibly nice and talented players have allowed me and my crew to do a better job for lots of other musicians. Thanks, guys and gals, for a wonderful and continuing education.
Mike, thanks for a memory jog (good for 200 calories burned, IIRC) - in a previous century I was mixing my 4th or 5th acoustic/bluegrass fest and the next act on the bill was California (Dan Crary, Byron Berline, John Hickman, Steve Spurgeon, John Moore - great band). Dan came up to FOH and listened to about 10 minutes of my mixing the current act. Then he introduced himself and said "well, basically I like everything I'm hearing so this is what I want to do - we'll set monitors from your left to right across the stage, and when we do bring up each instrument to whatever you think solo level should be; EQ it, and leave the fader in position. Wave at us when you're ready to move on." We agreed, shook hands and he made his way back stage. He filled in my monitor guy on the process and we had the whole band ready in about 5 minutes. It was the best hour I never mixed.
Dan was very generous with his time later when we/I had dozens of questions about acoustic guitar tone. Several years later he delivered a wonderful compliment to my staff: "it's great to be on a stage where the sound crew knows what guitars are supposed to sound like!" Gee, Dan, I wonder how we got that way?*
Shameless plug for Dan's DVD "Primal Twang - The Legacy of the Guitar" http://dancrary.com/primal-twang/
* edit PS We really do stand on the backs of giants - the time shared by some incredibly nice and talented players have allowed me and my crew to do a better job for lots of other musicians. Thanks, guys and gals, for a wonderful and continuing education.
Re: Bluegrass festival
a very successful emcee from the genre, schooled me once on their setup. He has since passed on, but in the 20 years we worked with him, it went like this.....
sm58 sm57 sm58 sm57 sm58 sm57 sm58 sm57 sm58 sm57 --5 positions on stage, with a (like stated before) singing mic, and a pickin' mic, for each position. Other than that, a di for bass (if applicable) or bass mic (we used an AT Pro 35 condensor for that - low profile clip on). There was another setup, which was a take on the single mic thing, which was 2 AT Pro 37r, on a stereo bar, in an X-Y pattern. Got great reviews with that. People would ask so many questions on that setup. Its very simple, but no monitors with the stereo mic setup. The other 10mic setup, was 4 monitors across the front, on two mixes. Typical 24-30' stage, with the guys 16-20' across, at MOST. This was a community center type setup, so more wedges might be a better scenario for a an outdoor setup, or a much larger stage. In any case, this has worked, based upon that layout, for many bluegrass events. Yes, you can use "higher" end mics, and I encourage you to experiment. For a tried and true setup, this is a good start, and ALL of the performers will recognize the mics, and possibly their placement, for an easy transition. If it happens that someone picks on a singing, or vice versa, youre not screwed, either.
Good luck!
joel
Jared,
a very successful emcee from the genre, schooled me once on their setup. He has since passed on, but in the 20 years we worked with him, it went like this.....
sm58 sm57 sm58 sm57 sm58 sm57 sm58 sm57 sm58 sm57 --5 positions on stage, with a (like stated before) singing mic, and a pickin' mic, for each position. Other than that, a di for bass (if applicable) or bass mic (we used an AT Pro 35 condensor for that - low profile clip on). There was another setup, which was a take on the single mic thing, which was 2 AT Pro 37r, on a stereo bar, in an X-Y pattern. Got great reviews with that. People would ask so many questions on that setup. Its very simple, but no monitors with the stereo mic setup. The other 10mic setup, was 4 monitors across the front, on two mixes. Typical 24-30' stage, with the guys 16-20' across, at MOST. This was a community center type setup, so more wedges might be a better scenario for a an outdoor setup, or a much larger stage. In any case, this has worked, based upon that layout, for many bluegrass events. Yes, you can use "higher" end mics, and I encourage you to experiment. For a tried and true setup, this is a good start, and ALL of the performers will recognize the mics, and possibly their placement, for an easy transition. If it happens that someone picks on a singing, or vice versa, youre not screwed, either.
Good luck!
joel
Re: Bluegrass festival
Back in the day we did it pretty much Joel's way, except that we had all 57s with A2WS windscreens (we flirted with Beyer 609s for a while - great out of the box, but they got "mushy" after a while). We used straight stands with 18" goosenecks to make placement very fast (this was when you could buy long goosenecks that didn't need to be filled with #9 wire to function properly).
Windscreens are a must, as many players like to shove their instrument right against the screen during solos. Being skinny, the A2WS was a much better choice than a ball screen.
Back in the day we did it pretty much Joel's way, except that we had all 57s with A2WS windscreens (we flirted with Beyer 609s for a while - great out of the box, but they got "mushy" after a while). We used straight stands with 18" goosenecks to make placement very fast (this was when you could buy long goosenecks that didn't need to be filled with #9 wire to function properly).
Windscreens are a must, as many players like to shove their instrument right against the screen during solos. Being skinny, the A2WS was a much better choice than a ball screen.
Re: Bluegrass festival
don't over-mix. Once the basic levels are set, most Bluegrass bands know how to get in on their mics during breaks and fills. You probably won't be able to keep up with then anyway. Good eq is more important than volume.
don't over-mix. Once the basic levels are set, most Bluegrass bands know how to get in on their mics during breaks and fills. You probably won't be able to keep up with then anyway. Good eq is more important than volume.
Re: Bluegrass festival
Absolutely. Enjoy the show. The good EQ part is don't have any feedback or wind noise. Unlike the local rock word: 1) most of these guys are great musicians. 2) Most of these guys have a good instrument tone. 3) The stage volume is always reasonable. 4) The band sounds the same "unplugged" so remember you are "capturing" the sound and not trying to make the tone with EQ.
Every time I have a Bluegrass act I remember what comedian Steve Martin once said,“The banjo is such a happy instrument--you can't play a sad song on the banjo - it always comes out so cheerful.”
Absolutely. Enjoy the show. The good EQ part is don't have any feedback or wind noise. Unlike the local rock word: 1) most of these guys are great musicians. 2) Most of these guys have a good instrument tone. 3) The stage volume is always reasonable. 4) The band sounds the same "unplugged" so remember you are "capturing" the sound and not trying to make the tone with EQ.
Every time I have a Bluegrass act I remember what comedian Steve Martin once said,“The banjo is such a happy instrument--you can't play a sad song on the banjo - it always comes out so cheerful.”
Re: Bluegrass festival
Good advice. I call it Hippocratic Mixing - first, do no harm. Or perhaps "organic" might be better...
Re the banjo. At a festival a few years ago I saw a lady wearing a t-shirt with a depiction of The Scream... stalking up behind the screamer was a banjo player.
The banjo - lollipop of love, or weapon of musical destruction? Film at 11.
Good advice. I call it Hippocratic Mixing - first, do no harm. Or perhaps "organic" might be better...
Re the banjo. At a festival a few years ago I saw a lady wearing a t-shirt with a depiction of The Scream... stalking up behind the screamer was a banjo player.
The banjo - lollipop of love, or weapon of musical destruction? Film at 11.
Re: Bluegrass festival
Like this?
Good advice. I call it Hippocratic Mixing - first, do no harm. Or perhaps "organic" might be better...
Re the banjo. At a festival a few years ago I saw a lady wearing a t-shirt with a depiction of The Scream... stalking up behind the screamer was a banjo player.
The banjo - lollipop of love, or weapon of musical destruction? Film at 11.
Like this?
Re: Bluegrass festival
ROFL!!! A choice, here!
Good advice. I call it Hippocratic Mixing - first, do no harm. Or perhaps "organic" might be better...
Re the banjo. At a festival a few years ago I saw a lady wearing a t-shirt with a depiction of The Scream... stalking up behind the screamer was a banjo player.
The banjo - lollipop of love, or weapon of musical destruction? Film at 11.
ROFL!!! A choice, here!