Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
- Thread starter Ron Kreiger
- Start date
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
Last time I did it I placed the foam on the ground, let it have a few good blobs of transparent glue in key locations and put the grille over it and just lived with the slightly visible blobs. It's not as unsightly as you might imagine, but if you're aming for perfection it won't do, of course!
Last time I did it I placed the foam on the ground, let it have a few good blobs of transparent glue in key locations and put the grille over it and just lived with the slightly visible blobs. It's not as unsightly as you might imagine, but if you're aming for perfection it won't do, of course!
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
Hi Bennett,
Just wondering which boxes....?
Best,
Hi Bennett,
Just wondering which boxes....?
Best,
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
Unfortunately, that's going to be one of those things I can't talk about publicly any more.
Unfortunately, that's going to be one of those things I can't talk about publicly any more.
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
I just purchased a WT3 - very cool. Here's an impedance trace of the 12cn680 based wedge. It shows the port tuning at about 62 Hz. (A few Hz higher than the previous trace done with an old 12" woofer and without the crossover installed and taking up space inside.)
BTW: Thanks everyone for the advice on the grill. I changed the foam for cloth and re-glued. So far it's holding.
I just purchased a WT3 - very cool. Here's an impedance trace of the 12cn680 based wedge. It shows the port tuning at about 62 Hz. (A few Hz higher than the previous trace done with an old 12" woofer and without the crossover installed and taking up space inside.)
BTW: Thanks everyone for the advice on the grill. I changed the foam for cloth and re-glued. So far it's holding.
Attachments
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
Just wondering if you've heard the new B&C 12HCX76? Any impressions, comparisons or info you can pass on?
Thanks...
Just wondering if you've heard the new B&C 12HCX76? Any impressions, comparisons or info you can pass on?
Thanks...
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
I have heard the 15CXN76, which is the same motor and HF section but with our pole piece horn under the dust cap instead of the large modified exponential horn on the HCX. I have found it to be an extremely high performance driver, and it sounds exceptional as well. Gets unnecessarily loud in a wedge application, and doesn't sound like it's working hard.
I have heard the 15CXN76, which is the same motor and HF section but with our pole piece horn under the dust cap instead of the large modified exponential horn on the HCX. I have found it to be an extremely high performance driver, and it sounds exceptional as well. Gets unnecessarily loud in a wedge application, and doesn't sound like it's working hard.
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
Michael,
I've heard the same thing almost every time I've had my BMS wedges out at a gig. Lately, Davey Arthur, Liz Carroll, Anthony Kearns(one of the Three Irish Tenors), Finbar Furey, The High Kings, Mick Moloney, have all been very pleased with the performance.
It is a great driver, crossover, although our(myself, Curtis, and Jack) our cabinet is a little different.
I'm gearing up for a unique hybrid event featuring Irish musicians headed by Kathleen Keane fusing their talents with Gypsy swing guitarist Alfonso Ponticelli, violinist Steve Gibons, and others on the 26th, where I'll have all six of my BMS wedges on stage for all eleven musicians. I'm looking forward to an interesting evening.
Attached is a photo of two of mine-I'm using 1/4" thick filter foam on the backside of the perf metal grills, glued in with 3M Spray 77 on both halves first. You might want to try some of the stronger 3M spray adhesives, since you have less surface area to glue the foam.
Best regards,
John
Michael,
I've heard the same thing almost every time I've had my BMS wedges out at a gig. Lately, Davey Arthur, Liz Carroll, Anthony Kearns(one of the Three Irish Tenors), Finbar Furey, The High Kings, Mick Moloney, have all been very pleased with the performance.
It is a great driver, crossover, although our(myself, Curtis, and Jack) our cabinet is a little different.
I'm gearing up for a unique hybrid event featuring Irish musicians headed by Kathleen Keane fusing their talents with Gypsy swing guitarist Alfonso Ponticelli, violinist Steve Gibons, and others on the 26th, where I'll have all six of my BMS wedges on stage for all eleven musicians. I'm looking forward to an interesting evening.
Attached is a photo of two of mine-I'm using 1/4" thick filter foam on the backside of the perf metal grills, glued in with 3M Spray 77 on both halves first. You might want to try some of the stronger 3M spray adhesives, since you have less surface area to glue the foam.
Best regards,
John
Attachments
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
The B&C website now shows a 12FHX76 ceramic magnet version of the 12HCX76 neo. Both are 12" 60x40deg coaxials.
Bennett, do these have any absorption on the back of the HF horn? (Like the BMS 12CN680.)
Cheers,
Michael
The B&C website now shows a 12FHX76 ceramic magnet version of the 12HCX76 neo. Both are 12" 60x40deg coaxials.
Bennett, do these have any absorption on the back of the HF horn? (Like the BMS 12CN680.)
Cheers,
Michael
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
Michael,
We're hoping that driver will be extremely popular. It is not so much heavier than the 12HCX76, and it is about 2/3 the cost!
There is no coating on the back of the horn, none of our coaxials with attached horn have it. The assumption is that at normal crossover frequencies it is not a problem. We are working on a 12FCX76 with pole piece horn under the dust cap, like the 12CXN76, but the thicker magnet structure is causing timing problems so that project is still some time off.
Michael,
We're hoping that driver will be extremely popular. It is not so much heavier than the 12HCX76, and it is about 2/3 the cost!
There is no coating on the back of the horn, none of our coaxials with attached horn have it. The assumption is that at normal crossover frequencies it is not a problem. We are working on a 12FCX76 with pole piece horn under the dust cap, like the 12CXN76, but the thicker magnet structure is causing timing problems so that project is still some time off.
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
2/3rd the cost... sounds good. The build cost for my wedge was just over $1000 - higher than I expected - so I'm curious to try this one.
2/3rd the cost... sounds good. The build cost for my wedge was just over $1000 - higher than I expected - so I'm curious to try this one.
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
The wedge turned out great, the thread is informative, and the build is good for those who can afford more expensive gear. The average weekend warrior band is more likely to spend $1k on FOH cabs so a $1k wedge will probably never see one of those stages. A greater challenge would be to take the concept and design and adapt it to a $300 wedge that would be usable and of better quality than one could grab off the shelf. That might be difficult given that a company in production has the advantage of economies of scale over someone constructing a cab in their garage or workshop.
Can it be done?
The wedge turned out great, the thread is informative, and the build is good for those who can afford more expensive gear. The average weekend warrior band is more likely to spend $1k on FOH cabs so a $1k wedge will probably never see one of those stages. A greater challenge would be to take the concept and design and adapt it to a $300 wedge that would be usable and of better quality than one could grab off the shelf. That might be difficult given that a company in production has the advantage of economies of scale over someone constructing a cab in their garage or workshop.
Can it be done?
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
http://soundforums.net/diy-audio/238-coaxial-wedge-collaboration-post12652.html#post12652
http://soundforums.net/diy-audio/238-coaxial-wedge-collaboration-post16683.html#post16683
Ramsdell "RoadRanger" monitors
Been there, done that:
http://soundforums.net/diy-audio/238-coaxial-wedge-collaboration-post12652.html#post12652
http://soundforums.net/diy-audio/238-coaxial-wedge-collaboration-post16683.html#post16683
Ramsdell "RoadRanger" monitors
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
Hi Everyone,
I'm totally new to the forum, having found it searching for info on some Coaxial drivers, so I found this thread particularly interesting. What's the latest on the project? Did you all come up with a definitive design and driver choice. One of my current jobs is looking after a small venue in Liverpool, UK and at present we have a system that is made up of boxes that were custom made by a PA company in London that look almost exactly like the d&b MAX 15 monitors. They are loaded with B&C 15CX40, which I believe is the off the shelf version of the custom driver d&b use, the exception being a stiffer cone. They have the B&C crossover XO-4. They are a lovely speaker but are somewhat suffering from having a very nasty graphic in the chain, which will be replaced as budget allows.
I'm really interested in getting some 12" coaxials going too, as we only have four monitors at present, and space on stage is already at a premium, so more monitors could do with being smaller.
I look forward to hearing more about this project.
Jon
Hi Everyone,
I'm totally new to the forum, having found it searching for info on some Coaxial drivers, so I found this thread particularly interesting. What's the latest on the project? Did you all come up with a definitive design and driver choice. One of my current jobs is looking after a small venue in Liverpool, UK and at present we have a system that is made up of boxes that were custom made by a PA company in London that look almost exactly like the d&b MAX 15 monitors. They are loaded with B&C 15CX40, which I believe is the off the shelf version of the custom driver d&b use, the exception being a stiffer cone. They have the B&C crossover XO-4. They are a lovely speaker but are somewhat suffering from having a very nasty graphic in the chain, which will be replaced as budget allows.
I'm really interested in getting some 12" coaxials going too, as we only have four monitors at present, and space on stage is already at a premium, so more monitors could do with being smaller.
I look forward to hearing more about this project.
Jon
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
Hi Jon,
The thread kind of lost momentum.... some of the folks driving this (myself included) ended up in scenarios where we did not need this solution, so the funding for building and testing kind of dried up. Michael's wedge incorporates many of the ideas from this thread. It would be a good starting point, other drivers could be used with that design with only minor modifications. Please note the PDF document for this plan that is a sticky at the top of the forum, it has build photos and specifications which can help guide you through a build.
Cheers
Jeff
Hi Jon,
The thread kind of lost momentum.... some of the folks driving this (myself included) ended up in scenarios where we did not need this solution, so the funding for building and testing kind of dried up. Michael's wedge incorporates many of the ideas from this thread. It would be a good starting point, other drivers could be used with that design with only minor modifications. Please note the PDF document for this plan that is a sticky at the top of the forum, it has build photos and specifications which can help guide you through a build.
Cheers
Jeff
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
Taking a break from house cleaning this morning, I've been going over this thread. Some things I hadn't read. Some observations:
First, using any of these nice coaxial drivers is an expensive project, no denying that. As someone observed on their build, it's around $1000.00 per finished unit.
Second, I can't stress enough that these are top flight products when completed, especially, and emphatically when incorporating a passive crossover by Curtis List, or having Bennett cook up some DSP settings. I can't stress this quote From Jack Arnott enough:
Anyone who has seen any of my handiwork building crossovers in the original Danley products, or what they have in their current line, will understand as well. There is a lot going on.
I just did a four day event that featured Phil Coulter, who's been performing and producing for four decades-lots of platinum discs on his wall. His rider specs a preference for old school biamped 15x2 or 12x2 wedges. He likes it reasonably loud, needs some 8k boost, didn't even flinch as I gave it to him on one wedge at the piano, and a pair at centerstage with the coax wedges. His wife, Geraldine Brannigan, who has plenty of records sold in her own right, just loved the sound in the wedges I was able to give.
Mine weigh around 42lbs., built with 18mm Baltic. I may have a go at a 15mm version, it should shave 20% off the unloaded cabinet weight, possibly getting under the 40 pound mark.
For those pesky foam pieces on the underside of the grills, check into some plastic snap rivets, where one half can go thru the grill from the outside, and the other half can capture the foam against the inside of the grill when snapped together. A couple of these in critical spots should be enough(along with the spray adhesive too).
Best regards,
John
Taking a break from house cleaning this morning, I've been going over this thread. Some things I hadn't read. Some observations:
First, using any of these nice coaxial drivers is an expensive project, no denying that. As someone observed on their build, it's around $1000.00 per finished unit.
Second, I can't stress enough that these are top flight products when completed, especially, and emphatically when incorporating a passive crossover by Curtis List, or having Bennett cook up some DSP settings. I can't stress this quote From Jack Arnott enough:
Anyone who has seen any of my handiwork building crossovers in the original Danley products, or what they have in their current line, will understand as well. There is a lot going on.
I just did a four day event that featured Phil Coulter, who's been performing and producing for four decades-lots of platinum discs on his wall. His rider specs a preference for old school biamped 15x2 or 12x2 wedges. He likes it reasonably loud, needs some 8k boost, didn't even flinch as I gave it to him on one wedge at the piano, and a pair at centerstage with the coax wedges. His wife, Geraldine Brannigan, who has plenty of records sold in her own right, just loved the sound in the wedges I was able to give.
Mine weigh around 42lbs., built with 18mm Baltic. I may have a go at a 15mm version, it should shave 20% off the unloaded cabinet weight, possibly getting under the 40 pound mark.
For those pesky foam pieces on the underside of the grills, check into some plastic snap rivets, where one half can go thru the grill from the outside, and the other half can capture the foam against the inside of the grill when snapped together. A couple of these in critical spots should be enough(along with the spray adhesive too).
Best regards,
John
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
Hey guys, just FYI, these are now in production and available from our warehouse in NJ and factory in Italy (for those of you not in the US). 12" and 15" versions with ferrite single magnet are first, expect various other sizes 8" and above, and the horn-less (we call it a "pole piece horn", like used in the 12CXN76) version will be available in early Q1 2012. Performance and weight are surprisingly close to their neodymium magnet brothers, price is considerably less.
B&C SPEAKERS
Hey guys, just FYI, these are now in production and available from our warehouse in NJ and factory in Italy (for those of you not in the US). 12" and 15" versions with ferrite single magnet are first, expect various other sizes 8" and above, and the horn-less (we call it a "pole piece horn", like used in the 12CXN76) version will be available in early Q1 2012. Performance and weight are surprisingly close to their neodymium magnet brothers, price is considerably less.
B&C SPEAKERS
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
I've been looking at those drivers lately, and if I get opportunity, will certainly consider using them. I like their specs, the 15" version looks like a serious contender.
Best regards,
John
I've been looking at those drivers lately, and if I get opportunity, will certainly consider using them. I like their specs, the 15" version looks like a serious contender.
Best regards,
John
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
Two 12HCX76's just arrived at my house.... I'm looking forward to trying them out....
Two 12HCX76's just arrived at my house.... I'm looking forward to trying them out....
Re: Coaxial Wedge Collaboration
Great! Are you making more wedges with them, or do you have other plans?
Great! Are you making more wedges with them, or do you have other plans?