Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Frederik Rosenkjær said:
Since this topic swerve is already well underway...


Ivan, how would you compare the BC415 to the TH812? The specs say the TH812 goes a bit lower, and louder there, but what is your "feeling"?
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The TH812 goes lower while the BC415 goes louder. The TH812 has a smoother sound, while the BC415 is more "fun". They are both the same frontal size and the TH812 is something like 2" deeper-so no big deal difference there.

If you really need to go that little bit extra deep-the TH812 wins. But for more fun-the BC415 wins. Most people would choose the BC415 for most "pop" type events-but the response of the TH812 is so smooth ( I would argue the smoothest I have ever seen of any subwoofer-without processing), it is better for more "refined" music.

Although they are being used just fine with all sorts of other music-especially EDM-where the extra depth is welcome.

The general response is that the TH812 makes people go WOW-that is amazing. While the BC415 makes them start to laugh (in a good way)-since they have never heard or experienced anything like it. And this is coming from well seasoned guys-who have been doing this a long time.

The BC415 puts a bigger smile on your face.
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Hi Ivan,

Thanks for all the info!
I look forward to hearing SM80 and OS80 boxes!

Good health, Weogo


Ivan Beaver said:
I have not done a lot of listening to the two different boxes-as they are intended for different applications and not a A or B type thing.

The composite case is not your average "plastic box". It is a VERY tough material-they make truck hoods-guardrails and such out of them.

There are also a lot of "bends" and such in it-that add strength (like bending metal).

The whole cabinet is built such that the baffle is a 3/4" thick heavy duty composite material that is tied to the fly points on the sides and rear of the cabinet. Then the horn (which weighs 11lbs by itself and is very strong) is then also bolted to this baffle-which ties the whole cabinet together.

The construction is such that you could rip away the entire outer shell and the cabinet would still fly just fine. The xover-driver and horn all mounted to the center baffle-so the cabinet is "along for the ride". The U bracket in anchored directly to this baffle-so the cabinet is not taking an weight.

The reason for the lower sensitivity is we use a slightly different coax driver. It is the ceramic version (the SM80 uses the neo version). The HF driver in the ceramic version has a slighty lower output up high-so it is not as "bright" as the SM80.

The crossover is the same.

This driver was choosen so the OS 80 would meet a price point-as it is less expensive-but the performance differences are so minimal that in most cases it doesn't matter.

The way we demo the OS80 is we have a bracket (I forget who makes it) that has a pole cup attached to a piece of square tube-which we mount to the U bracket.

So yes-it is easy to pole mount the OS 80.
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Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Ivan Beaver said:
The TH812 goes lower while the BC415 goes louder. The TH812 has a smoother sound, while the BC415 is more "fun". They are both the same frontal size and the TH812 is something like 2" deeper-so no big deal difference there.

If you really need to go that little bit extra deep-the TH812 wins. But for more fun-the BC415 wins. Most people would choose the BC415 for most "pop" type events-but the response of the TH812 is so smooth ( I would argue the smoothest I have ever seen of any subwoofer-without processing), it is better for more "refined" music.

Although they are being used just fine with all sorts of other music-especially EDM-where the extra depth is welcome.

The general response is that the TH812 makes people go WOW-that is amazing. While the BC415 makes them start to laugh (in a good way)-since they have never heard or experienced anything like it. And this is coming from well seasoned guys-who have been doing this a long time.

The BC415 puts a bigger smile on your face.
Click to expand...

Man, that was a great description and tells me more than test results would! Ivan, have you compared the SM 80 to a JBL SRX722. I would be very interested in your opinion. Up here in Pa I don't have the oopportunity to hear one.
 
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Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Chuck Simon said:
Ivan, have you compared the SM 80 to a JBL SRX722. .
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I have not listened to them to compare-so all I can do is look at the spec sheet numbers.

The JBL will go quite a bit lower in freq than the SM80 (The SM80 was not intended to go low-and intended to be used with subs)

The SM80 high freq response extends a good bit higher.

The SM80 has a wider coverage pattern-both vertically and horizontally. Is that good or bad? It depends.

The max outputs (on paper) are (in all practically) equal. However I think the SM80 is underrated in terms of power capacity-due to the fact that the actual impedance is a good bit higher than the rated 8 ohms. So for now we will stick with the current specs. I need to look further into that.

The SM80 will maintain the coverage pattern lower-due to the large horn that both the HF and LF driver use.

Obviously the SM80 is smaller and lighter.

Sorry I can't do any more comparisons without hearing them together.
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Ivan Beaver said:
I have not listened to them to compare-so all I can do is look at the spec sheet numbers.

The JBL will go quite a bit lower in freq than the SM80 (The SM80 was not intended to go low-and intended to be used with subs)

The SM80 high freq response extends a good bit higher.

The SM80 has a wider coverage pattern-both vertically and horizontally. Is that good or bad? It depends.

The max outputs (on paper) are (in all practically) equal. However I think the SM80 is underrated in terms of power capacity-due to the fact that the actual impedance is a good bit higher than the rated 8 ohms. So for now we will stick with the current specs. I need to look further into that.

The SM80 will maintain the coverage pattern lower-due to the large horn that both the HF and LF driver use.

Obviously the SM80 is smaller and lighter.

Sorry I can't do any more comparisons without hearing them together.
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That helps. Maybe the SRX gets as loud, but it requires 3 times the power to do so. That's what interest me as I try to be more eficient(and lighter weight) with my gear.
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Chuck Simon said:
That helps. Maybe the SRX gets as loud, but it requires 3 times the power to do so. That's what interest me as I try to be more eficient(and lighter weight) with my gear.
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And when you look at how loud you can get running off of a standard wall outlet-effeciency matters. And you can use smaller amps to get just as loud.

That means you have more power available for the "important things"-like LIGHTS :)
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Ivan Beaver said:
And when you look at how loud you can get running off of a standard wall outlet-effeciency matters. And you can use smaller amps to get just as loud.

That means you have more power available for the "important things"-like LIGHTS :)
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How well do 2 SM80 work together side by side? Do they work when tightly packed?
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Ivan Beaver said:
That means you have more power available for the "important things"-like LIGHTS :)
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When quoting jobs I find myself saying more and more,"you don't need lights, do you?" I hate messing with lights! I recently switched to LED lights from my old PAR 64s(20 amps per tree). They aren't as bright , but if they need more they can hire a real light man!
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Kevin Maxwell said:
How well do 2 SM80 work together side by side? Do they work when tightly packed?
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The side angles are cut at 40°-so they do "array" with the 80° pattern.

However-due to the large driver-size of horn-wide angle etc, they do not array as seamlessly as the other arrayable Danley products.

It is still much better than other products that simply don't array (despite what the spec sheet or name says). There is a little bit "different sound" in the middle.

Not the typical "swooshi swooshi" sound of combfiltering as other cabinet have. If you were not listening to pink noise or moving through the pattern-I doubt most people would notice.

I have tried changing the angle more and less, but tightpacked seemed to be best. Of course you now have a very wide coverage (160°)-so that might be an issue in some cases.

However if you are going to hard pack them and use 1 as the main and the second as a "fill" speaker, then odds are the fill speaker would be turned down in level a bit.

This would greatly reduce or eliminate the small interference issues.

The SM80 was not designed to be used arrayed in pairs-but more as a stand alone single cabinet or a fill cabinet with larger systems. It makes a great wide angle front fill.

The reason the sides are not flat is several fold. First the weight would go up. Second we wanted to have a small back volume for the woofer-so to maintain that-more wood (cost and weight) would be needed. And it would be larger.

The angles also make it very usable for a floor wedge.
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Chuck Simon said:
That helps. Maybe the SRX gets as loud, but it requires 3 times the power to do so. That's what interest me as I try to be more eficient(and lighter weight) with my gear.
Click to expand...

Another successful night with the SM80s last night. The thing about direct comparisons to a cab like the 722 is that part of the loudness of a 722 is in the low end that is not necessarily the sonic territory of the SM80. If you are just talking about 400 Hz and up, I think the SM80 wins in wider and more even pattern coverage, fidelity, and high end extension. Plus, the coherence of the sound, especially when traveling a distance, is not the same in a coax like the SM80 as compared to the separated components of a 722 (what some call "vocal intelligibility" is greatly enhanced by a single point source with the right balance of components and tuning). The 722 would definitely be a little more flexible if you wanted to use it as a full range stand alone cabinet for some occasions. If you are assuming additional "subs" for all occasions, then it becomes a matter of the trade-offs in other areas. The upcoming sound gig described above with a single SM80 and BC415 on each side to cover a crowd of 1000+ is personally encouraging to me, as I might be able to expand my low end without having to buy a bunch of additional mid-hi tops to keep up.

BTW, I power my SM80 with an xti4000, and I never recall it going in the red on any of our gigs including small outdoor settings like we did last night (approx. 250 people). We ran all the PA power (3 Crown xti's and an ITech 6000) and one side of the lights off a single 15 amp circuit, and the console and the other half of lights off another 15 amp circuit.
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Here are the directions/time and a link to the facebook page (photos of years past)

It is free if anybody wants to attend. Bill Johnson is the guy in charge and who is bringing the system. Somebody else will be running it-but Bill will be there if people have questions. He is not a Danley employee-so he will be limited to what he can answer-but has used the SM80's in several different situations.

It is this Sat 9-7-13

https://www.facebook.com/NorthsideJam

Northside Jam
at Marine Park
303 NW 20th Street
Fort Worth, Texas
(just south of Stockyards)

event is from 2:00pm to 6:00pm
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Ivan Beaver said:
The general response is that the TH812 makes people go WOW-that is amazing. While the BC415 makes them start to laugh (in a good way)-since they have never heard or experienced anything like it. And this is coming from well seasoned guys-who have been doing this a long time.

The BC415 puts a bigger smile on your face.
Click to expand...

Having been in the Danley demo room at Infocomm, I can attest to the output of the BC415. I'm still smiling when I think about it. The "drool towels" passed out to attendees were put to good use during that "Centipede" song!!
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Chuck Simon said:
Will there be a demo of the SM80s at NAMM in January?
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As far as I know (and as of now), Danley will not be at NAMM-but it may be in the works and I just haven't heard.

NAMM is not exactly the "type" of show that Danley goes after.

It costs a lot of money to go to a show. For example INFOCOMM is well into the 6 figure mark-and that is direct expense-not counting time preping-saleries of employees while there and so forth.

Companies have to weigh the cost of attending vs the potential market that is at the show. Basically a return on investment type of thing.

As markets/product change-it may become more of a possibility-who knows.

I would call up your local rep and request a demo-if interested.

Danley Audio | Danley Sound Labs | Danley Sound Labs, Inc.
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Ivan Beaver said:
With enough "subbage" the Sm80 will "do" quite a large crowd. Next Saturday (sept 7th) there will be a free event in the Dallas/ft worth area (not sure where) where the band WAR (low rider etc) will be playing for several thousand people (i think that is the expected turnout). The PA will be a single SM80 per side and a single BC415 per side outside.
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I'd be interested to hear the outcome of this event. It sure seems like an incredible feat for such a small speaker.

BJ
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

BJ James said:
I'd be interested to hear the outcome of this event. It sure seems like an incredible feat for such a small speaker.

BJ
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I talked to Bill-the guy in charge for a quick couple of minutes today.

He said it went GREAT. He also used a couple of the SM80M monitors and said the artists were VERY impressed with the clarity.

He took some videos and we will get them posted soon.

He said even back at 450' the sound was still very clear.

The main artists sound guy was saying that the BC415s were a bit "sloppy" while listening to the Rappers sound check. But when the band soundchecked-they came alive.

Shows you how important source material is.

He is a picky guy and was impressed. I won't see him for a couple of days to get more info.
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Ivan Beaver said:
I talked to Bill-the guy in charge for a quick couple of minutes today.

He said it went GREAT. He also used a couple of the SM80M monitors and said the artists were VERY impressed with the clarity.

He took some videos and we will get them posted soon.

He said even back at 450' the sound was still very clear.

The main artists sound guy was saying that the BC415s were a bit "sloppy" while listening to the Rappers sound check. But when the band soundchecked-they came alive.

Shows you how important source material is.

He is a picky guy and was impressed. I won't see him for a couple of days to get more info.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ivan. Looking forward to hearing more about this.
BJ
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Hi Y'all,

Last weekend I did a Contra dance festival with a rented pair of SM80s(thanks Hal!), one per side on a QSC PLX1804.
For Contra dances, the Caller has to be heard clearly, at consistent volume, all over the dance floor.

In the past I have used a pair of Tom Danley's td-1 boxes in portrait orientation. The td-1 is a 60 degree wide box and at about 61 degrees it is falling off noticeably, so I have hung a center-fill and added front-corner-fills.

With the SM80s I didn't need the corner-fills, and center-fill was a tiny box at low level covering the first 5~10' of dance floor, sitting on top of a TH115 sub.

The td-1s are pretty balanced boxes, but the SM80s needed even less EQ to sound really good.
I did have to add a few more ms delay to the SM80s to match the TH115 than I had with the td-1s.
It was surprising how well the SM80s seamlessly crossed to the TH115.

With fewer sound sources, intelligibility of the dance callers was a bit higher than in the past.
Also, overall volume level was a db or two lower, yet you could still hear everything very well. Instruments sounded more distinct.
On the PLX1804 the first Signal LED was lighting up, and the second -10 light flashing some, but nowhere near clip.
A-weighted, slow levels averaged around 85db 50' out at the side-of-hall mix position.
The centers of the SM80s were about 10' up in the air, so folks in the front weren't getting blasted.

I didn't get a chance to really crank up the SM80s.
These boxes sound very good and I'm looking forward to working with them again.

To the OP:
Since I haven't heard the SM60F I can't compare it to the SM80.
Knowing how consistently very good Danley boxes sound, I would say buy whatever pattern meets your needs.

Thanks and good health, Weogo
 
Re: Danley SM 80 vs SM 60F?

Ivan Beaver said:
The TH812 goes lower while the BC415 goes louder. The TH812 has a smoother sound, while the BC415 is more "fun". They are both the same frontal size and the TH812 is something like 2" deeper-so no big deal difference there.

If you really need to go that little bit extra deep-the TH812 wins. But for more fun-the BC415 wins. Most people would choose the BC415 for most "pop" type events-but the response of the TH812 is so smooth ( I would argue the smoothest I have ever seen of any subwoofer-without processing), it is better for more "refined" music.

Although they are being used just fine with all sorts of other music-especially EDM-where the extra depth is welcome.

The general response is that the TH812 makes people go WOW-that is amazing. While the BC415 makes them start to laugh (in a good way)-since they have never heard or experienced anything like it. And this is coming from well seasoned guys-who have been doing this a long time.

The BC415 puts a bigger smile on your face.
Click to expand...



Is the BC 415 a tap horn or a regular horn?
How do they work in multiples, four, six or more units tight packed together?

Franz
 
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