Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

A

Alan Sledzieski

Senior
Sep 11, 2011
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Hamburg, NY.
I have a A+H gl2200 an looking to upgrade to 8 buss. I'm looking at these desks. A soundcraft series two 32 channel on Ebay for $3500 of offer, or a Midas verona 40 channel at $6500 or offer. I know the price seems high on the series two from what they have been going for. I've seen a 32 channel midas go for $4200 My questions are.

What is each desk worth these days?
Is the midas that much better for the price?, or is just the name you are paying for?
How do these desks compare to my gl2200 as far as sound of pre-amps?
How does the series two and verona stack up against each other?

Any help or input from anyone that has used these desks or know anything about them would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Alan
 
Re: Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

Alan,
It is my opinion that unless you are looking at the very top tier of used analog consoles (Midas H3000, etc.), the APB series of analog desks offer the best option when you factor in ergonomics, build quality, sonics, support and anticipated trouble free service life. This is of course only my opinion and you know what they say about opinions. :) Find more info here:

http://apb-dynasonics.com/products/Products_ProDesk8.html
 
Re: Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

Another question, how would a gl 2800 compare to the series two, and Midas. I have mixed on someone elses series two, but I can't really compare overall sound between the gl 2200 and series two, because the whole rig is different then mine.
 
Re: Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

I meant least expensive of the three you mentioned. If you need 8 busses get a gl2800, if you need 8 busses and variable high pass and more stereo inputs and more mute groups I'd get the series 2. If i needed to impress touring bands I'd get the midas....... Sound quality ,although important, wouldn't force my hand one way or another in this situation. And, like I mentioned before .... I would go digital ;)
 
Re: Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

Brandon G Romanowski said:
I meant least expensive of the three you mentioned. If you need 8 busses get a gl2800, if you need 8 busses and variable high pass and more stereo inputs and more mute groups I'd get the series 2. If i needed to impress touring bands I'd get the midas....... Sound quality ,although important, wouldn't force my hand one way or another in this situation. And, like I mentioned before .... I would go digital ;)
Click to expand...
Got ya, Thanks again!
 
Re: Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

Alan Sledzieski said:
Another question, how would a gl 2800 compare to the series two, and Midas. I have mixed on someone elses series two, but I can't really compare overall sound between the gl 2200 and series two, because the whole rig is different then mine.
Click to expand...


Alan.

I don't know if this helps, but here we go:

I own a Series TWO-32. I like the mixer a lot, but I always leave it behind if I can use my DM2000 or 01v96...

You can compare it with the Soundcraft GB8-32 but the S-TWO has variable HPF and a full meter bridge. It does however have fewer matrices and you can only assign the pre/post setting on the auxes two at a time. You do however get to assign the pre/post settings on a per channel basis (not globally like on GB8)... The only reason I still keep the S-TWO with a nice outboard package is BE use, and most seem to like it and prefer the sound over a GB8, but there hasn't ever been a direct comparison with both desks present.

The price you mentioned seems a little high to me, try to get it down some.

Keep in mind that you can't extract one channel at the time, so especially liquid spills could get expensive to repair.

When it comes to the sound quality of the preamps, I always felt this question to be a little silly as the only way to really know is to set up a bunch of desks next to eachother, cobble up some funny looms that allows you to put the same signal into one channel on each desk and extract it from the insert sends and run them unbalanced into a switch or hub where all the desks are connected, and then switch between the preamps at the switch while they are all connected to some super-high-end studio monitor or something.

And even then you're kinda not doing it right because the loading of the signal source by so many inputs might change the sound, or if you have a buffer/splitter amp that might change the sound, and how do we know the quality of the buffer amp on the insert send jack? And to get it right we need all the levels to be set at exactly the same listening SPL which might bring some of the preamps out of their optimal setting area, which changes the way they sound. And on and on...

What I can say is this: The mixer sounds fine. If you get the gains structure screwed up for a very quiet show it'll be more noisy than my DM 2000.

Also, the insert return jack won't take any level of signal, so if you slam the preamp and insert a compressor and then give it a bunch of makeup gain you'll clip the insert return path somewhere. However, kudos to Soundcraft for putting in a clip lamp with multiple pickup points throughout the channel, including the insert return!
 
Re: Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

kristianjohnsen said:
Alan.

I don't know if this helps, but here we go:

I own a Series TWO-32. I like the mixer a lot, but I always leave it behind if I can use my DM2000 or 01v96...

You can compare it with the Soundcraft GB8-32 but the S-TWO has variable HPF and a full meter bridge. It does however have fewer matrices and you can only assign the pre/post setting on the auxes two at a time. You do however get to assign the pre/post settings on a per channel basis (not globally like on GB8)... The only reason I still keep the S-TWO with a nice outboard package is BE use, and most seem to like it and prefer the sound over a GB8, but there hasn't ever been a direct comparison with both desks present.

The price you mentioned seems a little high to me, try to get it down some.

Keep in mind that you can't extract one channel at the time, so especially liquid spills could get expensive to repair.

When it comes to the sound quality of the preamps, I always felt this question to be a little silly as the only way to really know is to set up a bunch of desks next to eachother, cobble up some funny looms that allows you to put the same signal into one channel on each desk and extract it from the insert sends and run them unbalanced into a switch or hub where all the desks are connected, and then switch between the preamps at the switch while they are all connected to some super-high-end studio monitor or something.

And even then you're kinda not doing it right because the loading of the signal source by so many inputs might change the sound, or if you have a buffer/splitter amp that might change the sound, and how do we know the quality of the buffer amp on the insert send jack? And to get it right we need all the levels to be set at exactly the same listening SPL which might bring some of the preamps out of their optimal setting area, which changes the way they sound. And on and on...

What I can say is this: The mixer sounds fine. If you get the gains structure screwed up for a very quiet show it'll be more noisy than my DM 2000.

Also, the insert return jack won't take any level of signal, so if you slam the preamp and insert a compressor and then give it a bunch of makeup gain you'll clip the insert return path somewhere. However, kudos to Soundcraft for putting in a clip lamp with multiple pickup points throughout the channel, including the insert return!
Click to expand...


Hey thanks for your input, Just wondering if I'm over analizing this whole thing. I'm just a weekend warrior but still want to sound the best I can. How do you think a gl 2800 sound, or is it the same story of hooking all the desks up to the same source and really listening?

Thanks again
 
Re: Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

Alan Sledzieski said:
Hey thanks for your input, Just wondering if I'm over analizing this whole thing. I'm just a weekend warrior but still want to sound the best I can. How do you think a gl 2800 sound, or is it the same story of hooking all the desks up to the same source and really listening?

Thanks again
Click to expand...


Alan. Don't get me wrong: You CAN judge the sound quality of a desk just by using it, but not the preamps specifically, that would mean isolating the preamp circuit from the rest of the desk, which would be a PITA due to the reasons mentioned before.

I don't have much experience with the GL 2800 so I won't comment on that. I will say that I have received few to no complaints from BEs about the Series TWO, and I think there would have been more had I owned an A&H in it's place. I'm sure the GL is a fine desk, but in the world of BEs and visitors, etc, it's nice to say you have a smaller mixer by the people who made the MH3 which seems to be the most accepted analog desk around (here at least).


Does the GL have a variable frequency HPF per channel? This is an important issue to me.
 
Re: Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

kristianjohnsen said:
Alan. Don't get me wrong: You CAN judge the sound quality of a desk just by using it, but not the preamps specifically, that would mean isolating the preamp circuit from the rest of the desk, which would be a PITA due to the reasons mentioned before.

I don't have much experience with the GL 2800 so I won't comment on that. I will say that I have received few to no complaints from BEs about the Series TWO, and I think there would have been more had I owned an A&H in it's place. I'm sure the GL is a fine desk, but in the world of BEs and visitors, etc, it's nice to say you have a smaller mixer by the people who made the MH3 which seems to be the most accepted analog desk around (here at least).


Does the GL have a variable frequency HPF per channel? This is an important issue to me.
Click to expand...

Nope, its set at 100 hz
 
Re: Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

Alan Sledzieski said:
Nope, its set at 100 hz
Click to expand...


Based on that alone I would lean toward the S-TWO. Sweep HPF is something I use extensively with good results, so very important to my style of mixing.

Also, like I said: Just about every BE we have offered it to has been fine with the console. One guy hated them so he got an upgrade to a MH3 (although I think he was thinking about a Series2...). Another needed more auxes and refused to go digital, so he got an MH3, also.

The BEs seem to be happy on it, and it has the right "console feel" with the meter bridge and whatnot.

Also, a big plus for being able to assign things directly form the input channels (mono only) to the mono output fader. That can be great for å separate subwoofer system without burning auxes or groups :)

All in all a good mixer for what it is. I'd try to get it down to like 2,5kUSD+ tax.
 
Re: Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

A few upgrades on the LS9 and you'll be surprised on the sonic improvements. I added a Big Ben, the Adat card and a pair of Focusrite MKII Dynamic I/Os and it was a game changer. Using the Focusrite outs instead of the Omni outs will give an easily measurable difference. I still use the on board inputs because I need the head amps to be exact.
 
Re: Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

I would take the Verona any day. Ive been using a 48ch Midas Verona for 3 years now in one of our local clubs. Its only B and C level acts but no one has ever complained. Anyone who has wanted more has brought their own. We have had no problems whatsoever, It sounds great and very functional. I also find myself not needing to crank the gain as much as Mackies, Allen Heath or my Soundcraft. They dont get a lot of love on the forums but I still think they are a step above most other comparable boards. Im looking to go digital but not till I can afford something well above an LS9, Still looking to build one very nice analog FOH for myself.
 
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Re: Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

Alan - I have an MH-2 48 with the usual rack of toys, and I have an LS-9 32. the LS-9 goes out 99 times out of 100. Like others have asked, are YOU the one mixing, or are you always providing for a BE?. I'll tell you now, my set-up / workload has decreased since I started carrying that desk, and as Evan states, it has way more functionality out of the console options you stated, obviously way less connections to be made ( and fail, be noisy etc...). Going the digital route has way too many pluses to be ignored... 2 more cents
 
Re: Desk question, Midas verona vs. Soundcraft series two

Shane Presley said:
Alan - I have an MH-2 48 with the usual rack of toys, and I have an LS-9 32. the LS-9 goes out 99 times out of 100. Like others have asked, are YOU the one mixing, or are you always providing for a BE?. I'll tell you now, my set-up / workload has decreased since I started carrying that desk, and as Evan states, it has way more functionality out of the console options you stated, obviously way less connections to be made ( and fail, be noisy etc...). Going the digital route has way too many pluses to be ignored... 2 more cents
Click to expand...

I'll be the only one mixing on the desk, I'm just a little weekend warrior with a lot of local musician friends that call me when they need something bigger for out door shows. I have so much outboard gear and its just so easy to use, plus I just picked up another drawmer dl 441. Plus I'm not digital savy, I like everything in a rack where I can see it and pull it up quickly.
I've been doing a lot of research on the web on different desks, along with the midas, So far the verona seems to be not liked that much, no stereo returns, so 8 channels are used up right away on 4 effects returns. No signal light on the channel meter, and only a 4 or 5 led meter at that. Complaints of chessy pots that are so easy to move some people have taped them in position. No vca's but still a big price tag on the desk. Some say its just a midas name stamped on a inferior desk compared to the old midas's.
I've been looking at apb dynasonics pro desk 8, but I can't find a lot of feedback on them. The little I have does seem good though. I'm trying to find the dimensions and wieghts on the desk also.
Theres some series two up for sale, but do I want a 10 -15 year old desk just entering the world of breaking down.
From everything I have read and seen, I like the soundcraft mh2 the best as far as what it can do. Are you just taking the ls9 out because of its ease? How did your mh2 treat you?
 
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