Driving stage wedges

Re: Driving stage wedges

Before you even add anything to the band, the band should be able to learn to play together without monitors. In other words, the bassist should be able to listen to the drummer who should be listening to the bass... they need to be locked together for most common "rock" or "pop" music. Then, any guitar players should be able to hear their amp, yet should still be able to listen to the bass and drums to keep time. Often placing guitar cabinets to the side of the stage and aimed across the stage will help with this significantly. This will also allow the drummer and bass player to be able to hear what tangent the lead guitar player is on and the rhythm guitar should be able to keep time with both the bass and drums. Keyboards will require some sort of on stage amplification, but it should mostly be handled like the guitar amps.

Essentially, they should all be able to play together, at a reasonable volume, without any amplification.

Finally, add the vocalist with stage wedges in front of each member. Initially, if they are playing together correctly, they should require very little other than the vocal mics in the wedges. Everyone should be asking for other people in their mixes, anyone who is asking for "More Me" should be re-evaluating what can be turned down to allow them to come through. Each artist should have a wedge with their own mix.

The band needs to play together as a band.
 
Re: Driving stage wedges

Josh Millward said:
Before you even add anything to the band, the band should be able to learn to play together without monitors. In other words, the bassist should be able to listen to the drummer who should be listening to the bass... they need to be locked together for most common "rock" or "pop" music. Then, any guitar players should be able to hear their amp, yet should still be able to listen to the bass and drums to keep time. Often placing guitar cabinets to the side of the stage and aimed across the stage will help with this significantly. This will also allow the drummer and bass player to be able to hear what tangent the lead guitar player is on and the rhythm guitar should be able to keep time with both the bass and drums. Keyboards will require some sort of on stage amplification, but it should mostly be handled like the guitar amps.

Essentially, they should all be able to play together, at a reasonable volume, without any amplification.
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It ain't necessarily so - what if they are a metal band, for instance? For many forms of music, whether one likes it or not, electrical power is an integral component.
 
Re: Driving stage wedges

Tim McCulloch said:
Wrong.

Learning to play as an ensemble is irrespective of genre.
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Exactly.

Some of the most awesome guitar sounds I've ever heard came from an itty bitty combo amp... when amplified in the PA system, it sounded better than the wreckage that usually comes out of stacks of 4x10 or 4x12 cabs. The best part of that was I didn't need to overcome some stupid stage volume either.

Learn to play as a group first.

Mixing sound for 5 people who sound like they are each soloing at the same time because they don't know how to play as a group gets really old, really fast.
 
Re: Driving stage wedges

Tim McCulloch said:
Wrong.

Learning to play as an ensemble is irrespective of genre.
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True dat.

Back about 30 years ago we had an "adrenalin metal" trio with a wash tub for a drum, a 5-note bagpipe made from an old vacuum cleaner and a trombone. I'd put it up against any other ensemble for being "edgy". We didn't need no stinkin' amplifiers.
 
Re: Driving stage wedges

Brian jojade said:
The only things on the list that I see as truth are #1 and #9. #9 could be accomplished with a quick mod to a passive speaker if you really wanted that...

#2 might be a concern if you decide to biamp your monitors. I never do. I don't have limiters on my monitors, other than the limiter on the amp.
#3 The choice of speaker that you use will have more to do with the amount of EQ that you need to make it work. Active/passive has nothing to do with that.
#4 My stage monitors are JBL SRX712's powered with QSC PLX3602s. They get loud as hell with zero concern for blowing them up, ever. If the artist's head explodes on stage, I know to turn them down a little, so at least I get a heads up clue before problems happen.
#5 Flat frequency response again depends on the speaker being used. Mackie SRM 450's flat? Ha ha ha.
#6 With a powered speaker, you have to plug in power and signal, and make sure all the settings on the speaker are right when deployed. Plugging signal into your amp rack and running just a single speaker cable is equal, or even less work.
#7 Again, this is the same as #3 and #5. The choice of speaker is the deciding factor here.
#8 Once set, the tweaking during the show would be the same either way. Of course, unless the artist starts to dabble with knobs. On a positive note if you break off the ground plug and reverse the AC polarity, you can make the chassis of the speaker hot. This way, when the artist touches it, they get a little shock therapy reminder to keep their hands off. Win for active speakers.
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You forgot iec cords getting unplugged by some of the more active singers and musicians running around.
 
Re: Driving stage wedges

For what it is worth I have never had any issues with the Italian SRM450's in several hundred shows. Had a problem or two with the China made versions of the same model (overheating and thermal shutdown several times). Never had a cord unplugged or a musician mess with the controls (which are on the back) etc. etc. etc. I have plenty of bigger, better, louder, more rider friendly boxes. All work fine when used in their intended application. I use them all regularly and all of them make me money. Both models of the EAW's are louder and better sounding but not without EQ or digital processing. The point is for a band or JV soundman starting out it is very easy to get a good sound fast with an active biamped box that already has the amplifier power and DSP processing built in and worked out. One less thing to worry about. There are so much better boxes available today than my ancient Mackie 450's but they do work well and seldom have any feedback issues at all on the shows I use them for.

The question of an extra cord for power is a non issue for me. I always run a multi box AC power "stinger" across the front of the stage anyway to have outlets for keyboards, pedal board power supplies, tracks, etc. A 4 foot IEC is within reach of a plug just about anywhere you would put a monitor. I agree that running seperate long individual power cords to each one would be a pain and a hassle but I have never had that problem so I did not even think about it.

As Brian Jojade pointed out, the main advantage of a powered box really is one less roadcase to deal with, but this is true with the big "IF", if you have the processing and amplifier power worked out correctly already in your rack. Just buying a monitor and slapping a power amp to it (like so many first time bands and sound men do) is not the same. If the correct power amp is purchased along with a good digital processor which is then set up to smooth out the frequency response and voltage limit the output, then yes, it is only about the extra amp rack. Otherwise, in my humble opinion, if you are just starting out get an active box and be done with it.
 
Re: Driving stage wedges

Tim McCulloch said:
Wrong.

Learning to play as an ensemble is irrespective of genre.
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I'm not wrong. And neither are you, when saying one should play as an ensemble.

When saying that it benefits a thrash/metal/etc. band to be able to practice unamplified - Bolshoi. The volume is too much of an integral part. Now the very same players could and would practice a different genre unamplified, and I know many that do, including myself.

But when rehearsing high energy music, acoustic guitars and practice pads are for individual practice (woodshedding), not for group rehearsal.

The Powder Room "Sand In My Vagina" 2012-10-27 40 Watt Club - YouTube
 
Re: Driving stage wedges

Mitch Miller said:
So here I am now, dad to a self-taught, perfectionist-driven teenage guitarist.
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Will he be using different guitar amps & cabs, or is he using a modeler (Fractal Axe, Kemper, etc)? If using the modeler, it would be good to choose a stage monitor that will deliver the sound he wants when used as a stand-alone guitar rig.
 
Re: Driving stage wedges

Mike -- Right now he's got just a single amp and cab. He did have a modeling amp, but traded it when he go his 4x12 Randall cab. The only other amp he's got is a small combo for practicing. Hadn't considered this aspect as it relates to stage wedges.
 
Re: Driving stage wedges

John Norris said:
I'm not wrong. And neither are you, when saying one should play as an ensemble.

When saying that it benefits a thrash/metal/etc. band to be able to practice unamplified - Bolshoi. The volume is too much of an integral part. Now the very same players could and would practice a different genre unamplified, and I know many that do, including myself.

But when rehearsing high energy music, acoustic guitars and practice pads are for individual practice (woodshedding), not for group rehearsal.
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No one is saying that a heavy metal band should be rehearsing with acoustic guitars and practice pads.

What we are saying is that BEFORE adding the racket from a bunch of stage wedges, the band should figure out what they need to do to be able to hear each other on the stage without stage monitors.

Typically, the bass player will stand on the side of the drum kit where the high hat is so he can hear it, and if the guitar player puts their guitar amp off to the side of the stage and uses it to wash across the stage instead of out into the audience, then the band can hear that instead of allowing it to destroy the FoH mix.

That said, if they are playing so loud that the band thinks that they need to wear ear plugs, perhaps they are playing a bit too loud. I'm certainly not against loud music, but with the technology we have available these days, it is far too easy to be able to turn it up so loud that one exposure will permanently negatively impact your hearing. Let alone doing it over and over and over and over again. It is entirely possible to play with "high energy" without bleeding from the ears.
 
Re: Driving stage wedges

ExamPle 1.
Sat night, 5 piece party band. Drummer has kick, snare, floor and sample pad. Really bright cymbals really high up. 15"/2" drum wedge. Add in foam ear plugs and guess what? With a default attenuation of say 26db.. I figure the drummer is at times playing 5-7 times as loud as he thinks he is. Fun mixing job... Blending on stage is becoming a lost art, I fear.
 
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