Duel limiters for IEM drummer.

[Mark Hunt]

Hi all. I am a drummer that is legally blind. The last thing I want is feedback hitting me with IEM's. I've searched past posts and couldn't find an answer to this question.

I want to use a shure PMXXX wired IEM with an AVIOM IIRC. I know the shure has a built in limiter I will ALWAYS use but I have to add an external feedback suppressor and dedicated dominator II as a brick wall limiter. I would hook them up in the mains insert on a small mixer where I will have all my drums output and subgroups of all the other stuff I want in my mix. So is this overkill?

drum mic input splits, FOH sub groups -> mains insert -> FDS feedback suppressor -> Dominator II limiter -> mains out -> The aviom input -> AN16II-rc -> shure limiter -> my ears

Is the shure real good as a limiter? Because of my vision this is a very important issue for me.

Again thanks for help/info.

 

[Shane Presley]

Re: Duel limiters for IEM drummer.

Mark ive been on ears for years (playing drums) without limiting. I also dont have them. Nor need them loud enough that a feedback shot would hurt. If there are that loud you should be legally deaf too. Jk.

 

[brian maddox]

Re: Duel limiters for IEM drummer.

the limiter in the shure is of limited usefulness since it has no threshold control and different IEM drivers have very different sensitivities. with some drivers, it'll limit far too early. with others, it won't hit before your eardrums cave in.

also, the feedback eliminator inline is probably not necessary or will even be all that helpful. by the time it clamps down on any feedback, the damage will have already been done.

the Dominator II however, IS a good idea. excellent unit that has been used in this capacity for many years. if you can get one, it would absolutely be a good idea.

i am a little confused as to how the AVIOM figures into all of this. it seems you have a split off all your drum inputs into a submixer as well as FOH groups in that mixer. and the output of that mixer feeds your in-ears. Where does the Aviom come in?

typically with bands that use aviom, if a drummer wants more individual control i will give them a full split of all their inputs into a submixer. i will also give them an Aviom mixer with all the other inputs on stage. the output of the AVIOM will also feed the sub mixer. the drummer then uses the extra inputs on his submixer to add drums to taste to his AVIOM mix [he will usually turn the drum input on the AVIOM off]. in this scenario you would still use teh dominator in teh inserts of that sub mixer, or just run it inline between teh mixer and the Shure PSM600.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Duel limiters for IEM drummer.

It warms my heart to hear a drummer preserving his hearing. The IEM buds if closed will also help reduce damage from the cymbals a few inches away.

I am not clear on what the feedback killer is for, surely the IEMs are not causing feedback, with your vocal mic (I hope).

I'm not sure if there have been specific studies on limiter settings and hearing damage, but it might be worth searching the AES archives.

JR

 

[Mark Hunt]

Re: Duel limiters for IEM drummer.

typically with bands that use aviom, if a drummer wants more individual control i will give them a full split of all their inputs into a submixer. i will also give them an Aviom mixer with all the other inputs on stage. the output of the AVIOM will also feed the sub mixer. the drummer then uses the extra inputs on his submixer to add drums to taste to his AVIOM mix...

That's what I meant drums go into the mixer at the kit and all the rest in into the AN16IIrc and the kit mixer inputed to the AN16IIrc. I would put the Doninator on the output of the AN16IIrc.

 

[Mark Hunt]

Re: Duel limiters for IEM drummer.

I am not clear on what the feedback killer is for, surely the IEMs are not causing feedback, with your vocal mic (I hope).

In live situations you might get dropped mics or singers that have no clue what they are doing and induce high sound spike feedback. The suppressor is a notch filter system that gets applied to the area of frequency producing it. Feedback is not good when using IEM's.

 

[brian maddox]

Re: Duel limiters for IEM drummer.

In live situations you might get dropped mics or singers that have no clue what they are doing and induce high sound spike feedback. The suppressor is a notch filter system that gets applied to the area of frequency producing it. Feedback is not good when using IEM's.

Well, the feedback suppressor won't hurt anything much if you really want to use it. It won't make the feedback go awaysince it's not in the speaker or microphone path, but will certainly limit its level in your IEMs. The dominator will protect your hearing, but if you've got sustained feedback it'll clamp down on levels and essentially duck most of your monitor mix. If the feedback suppressing notches out that feedback, it could restore your mix.

all that being said, I still don't think it's really gonna add much value. The dominator absolutely will, and I would highly recommend it. But if you don't already own the feedback suppressor, I wouldn't spent money to buy one.

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: Duel limiters for IEM drummer.

What are you using in your ears? Are they the generic Shure buds or custom molds?

 

[Mark Hunt]

Re: Duel limiters for IEM drummer.

What are you using in your ears? Are they the generic Shure buds or custom molds?

Shure E5's non custom molded.

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: Duel limiters for IEM drummer.

Shure E5's non custom molded.

If you care that much about your hearing and you want it to work well, invest in some good custom molds. Sensaphonics or some other reputable brand. The more headroom you have between the IEM's and the outside noise, the better off you'll be.

Or you could go with some GK Ultraphones.

 

[brian maddox]

Re: Duel limiters for IEM drummer.

If you care that much about your hearing and you want it to work well, invest in some good custom molds. Sensaphonics or some other reputable brand. The more headroom you have between the IEM's and the outside noise, the better off you'll be.

+1. and then another +1.

seriously, the best investment you can make when doing IEMs is customs. Sensaphonics are great. I really love Futuresonics. JH Audio has a great pedigree. i'm not a fan of ultimate ears since Logitech bought them, but there are those who swear by them.

If all those choices are too rich for your blood, check out Alclair. I've got a set of their 'reference' model and they are pretty awesome drivers, especially for the money [about $400]. they've got models starting at 250 bucks IIRC.

Whatever you get, get customs. You will NEVER be sorry you did. Guaranteed.

 

[Tim Weaver]

+1

Between the custom molds and the dominator you won't have any problems. Skip the feedback killer. It's not needed in this setup and will likely never do anything except take up space.