Growler and other subs

Spenser Hamilton

Spenser Hamilton

Senior
Sep 12, 2012
653
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18
SW Ontario
I don't hear much about the Growlers any more, I'm curious if there is a reason for this. Has the hype simply died down over time and they are still considered a good box? Or, are they no longer considered a viable solution anymore due to some event that I missed out on?

Alternatives that I'm looking at are the QRX218 and other subs in the same class. Wish I could afford to store and transport Labs, but that is not realistic at this time.

Edit: Anyone from Canada ever import some Growlers? If so, how hard did you get hit at the border?
 
Re: Growler and other subs

Growlers, it has its own sound and only a handful of people like and enjoy it. I once demo'd the Growlers, in the end I kept my UCS1s and then later on sold my UCS1 to upgrade to the JBL SRX718s.

With that, I will say the QRx218 will be better than the Growlers. QRx218 has a nice loud smooth bass tone, the SRX718/728 can go lower (which makes them sound louder).
 
Re: Growler and other subs

Matt

I think you have it the other way around. There are only a "hand full" of people out there that didn't enjoy it. The Growlers debut at a Prosoundweb shootout back in 2007 there was a couple of dozen people that heard and enjoyed the Growler. Most everyone that has heard a properly operating, properly setup Growler has enjoyed them. Side by side tests conducted by forum meets have proving the Growler has more output and lower distortion within the horns operating rate than the SRX718. The advantage of the fold horn subwoofers is throw and lower distortion. The disadvantage of the horn is increased distortion below the horns operating range however the lower in frequency the less sensitive humans are to tonality. This means lower distortion where we are more sensitive but more distortion where we are less sensitive.

Some people may of dismissed the Growler simply because they didn't full read or understand the specs. The original Growler was +/-1db 46hz-110hz:
growlerfreqres2.jpg

However, it had that same -10db as its competitors such as the SRX718 (35hz) and it you look at a +/-3db window (6db) the Growler's lowend cut off was 39hz.

The entire history, specs, graphs and data is on JTR's forum. The thread is under "announcements and news" and titled "Growler subwoofer from the beginning"

One of the best things about the Growler is it's reliability. Of the hundreds of Growlers there have only been a small amount of failures ever and since the introduction of the higher powerhandling version in 2010 there have only been less than a hand full to ever failure. This is thanks to an extremely well build, made in the USA driver and cabinet.

There will be Growlers are the shootout this Monday in Indianapolis, Nov 19th 2012.
 
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Re: Growler and other subs

Jeff P, I had a pair of the Growlers for a couple shows after the MD Sub Shootout/Listening Party held at Jim's old warehouse in 2007. I am not sure how that version would sound up against the newest/current model.

I'm open to reviewing the latest version against the SRX718s powered with an IT8000. But with the latest advancements in Active speakers, I am thinking that in the next year or two I’ll switching to a powered rig.
 
Re: Growler and other subs

Matt Vivlamore said:
Jeff P, I had a pair of the Growlers for a couple shows after the MD Sub Shootout/Listening Party held at Jim's old warehouse in 2007. I am not sure how that version would sound up against the newest/current model.

I'm open to reviewing the latest version against the SRX718s powered with an IT8000. But with the latest advancements in Active speakers, I am thinking that in the next year or two I’ll switching to a powered rig.
Click to expand...

Matt,

I remember. That was the pair that got damaged in shipping. One whole panel of the cabinet was loose.

Jeff
 
Re: Growler and other subs

Jeff Permanian said:
Side by side tests conducted by forum meets have proving the Growler has more output and lower distortion within the horns operating rate than the SRX718. The advantage of the fold horn subwoofers is throw and lower distortion. The disadvantage of the horn is increased distortion below the horns operating range however the lower in frequency the less sensitive humans are to tonality. This means lower distortion where we are more sensitive but more distortion where we are less sensitive.

There will be Growlers are the shootout this Monday in Indianapolis, Nov 19th 2012.
Click to expand...

Jeff,

The side by side tests I have seen results from show the Growler and the JBL SRX718 to be remarkably similar in terms of output and distortion, with the Growler's distortion, as you mention, increasing rapidly below the horn cut-off of 46 Hz.

As far as us being less sensitive to low frequency distortion, not true.
Low frequency distortion results in upper harmonics not present in the original signal, for instance a 30 Hz tone will have harmonics at 60, 90, 120, 150 Hz.
Our ear is far more sensitive to the upper harmonics, so the 60 Hz harmonic of 30 Hz the Growler generates with about 300 watts (just over 100% distortion) would sound almost twice as loud as the fundamental tone.
Kind of like a growling sound :^).

As far as "throw", the inverse distance law is equal opportunity, it applies equally to bass reflex, front loaded or tapped horns.

Will the upcoming Indianapolis shootout have measurements?
 

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Re: Growler and other subs

I used both Growlers (2008/2010) version decently extensive and now have used SRX718's decently extensive for the past 3 years now, and I will say that the Growlers are a very nice compact sub. I ended up liking the SRX718's just a touch more in sound and perceived output. (Though I cannot comment on the newest Growlers which have a new driver with higher power handling and slightly changed frequency response.)

The SRX718 has become my favorite compact "value" sub. (Unfortunately the price has gone up on them and now have been replaced with a slightly heavier sub.)


Take Care,
Phil
 
Re: Growler and other subs

+1 to Arts comments. LF range distortion is more audible not less.

In fact I suspect many have learned SR using relatively high distortion boxes, so clean bass reproduction sounds unnaturally thin to them.

A box cranking lots of LF distortion can sound louder than it would clean. Since loud "and" clean bass can be expensive, many opt for just loud.

I won't go all purist on everybody, in some cases the line between sound "re"-production and sound creation blurs.

YMMV

JR
 
Re: Growler and other subs

Spenser Hamilton said:
I don't hear much about the Growlers any more, I'm curious if there is a reason for this. Has the hype simply died down over time and they are still considered a good box? Or, are they no longer considered a viable solution anymore due to some event that I missed out on?

Alternatives that I'm looking at are the QRX218 and other subs in the same class. Wish I could afford to store and transport Labs, but that is not realistic at this time.

Edit: Anyone from Canada ever import some Growlers? If so, how hard did you get hit at the border?
Click to expand...

Probably because the company is nothing more than a box builder. Box builders have limited influence in Pro Audio. If you don't manufacture your own patented proprietary drivers in-house, you are not a real loudspeaker company, just a marketing company. In broader sense, if a company has no groundbreaking technology or patents of any kind, whats the use in supporting them? Unless you personally benefit financially from supporting copy cats, I see no value in products which are easily duplicable.
 
Re: Growler and other subs

Tim Duffin said:
Probably because the company is nothing more than a box builder. Box builders have limited influence in Pro Audio. If you don't manufacture your own patented proprietary drivers in-house, you are not a real loudspeaker company, just a marketing company. In broader sense, if a company has no groundbreaking technology or patents of any kind, whats the use in supporting them? Unless you personally benefit financially from supporting copy cats, I see no value in products which are easily duplicable.
Click to expand...

Tim, I hope you're not talking about JTR Speakers? All of my drivers are custom built except the compression drivers in which I use high quality BMS units. Box builders also don't spend hundreds of hours and build dozens of samples perfecting a design nor do they warranty or support the products. Don't forget the passive crossover networks that go into all the loudspeakers.
 
Re: Growler and other subs

Jeff Permanian said:
Tim, I hope you're not talking about JTR Speakers? All of my drivers are custom built except the compression drivers in which I use high quality BMS units. Box builders also don't spend hundreds of hours and build dozens of samples perfecting a design nor do they warranty or support the products. Don't forget the passive crossover networks that go into all the loudspeakers.
Click to expand...


Please list your proprietary loudspeaker patents along with the number and type of 5-axis CNC machines you have in your factory. Welcoming your response.
 
Re: Growler and other subs

Philip LaDue said:
So trying not laugh right now..
If you actually knew how many manufacturers made their driver in house you could never say such nonsense.
Click to expand...

Revealing that you do not know anything about pro audio loudspeaker companies on an online forum may not benefit your reputation in the long run. Just sayin...
 
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