Growler and other subs

[Rob Timmerman]

Re: Growler and other subs

Please list your proprietary loudspeaker patents along with the number and type of 5-axis CNC machines you have in your factory. Welcoming your response.

Interestingly enough, patents aren't always the whole story. For example, Fulcrum Acoustic doesn't list any patents of its own (although the several that they do list were all developed by their founders). And I don't see any for Danley with a quick search. L'acoustic doesn't appear to have any US patents either. The other big names (EAW, NEXO, EV, Community, JBL, Turbosound, Meyer) don't appear to have more than a handful of patents each, many of which are quite old.

And what machines are in the factory is equally meaningless in today's world of contract manufacturing. For that matter, it's quite viable to be a large worldwide manufacturer, and yet not own any factories.

What matters is the end product. Both performance and consistency unit to unit. And while I don't have enough first-hand experience with the JTR products to comment on either, the reports from the filed appear to be positive.

 

[Evan Kirkendall]

Re: Growler and other subs

Revealing that you do not know anything about pro audio loudspeaker companies on an online forum may not benefit your reputation in the long run. Just sayin...

Tim, if you are so well informed, please share with us your extensive knowledge of well respected manufacturers that build their own drivers in house.



Evan

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Growler and other subs

Don't feed the troll. You are all guilty for what happens.

You guys are acting like you actually want more.

JR

PS> I worked for a company that made several of their own drivers in house.

 

[Spenser Hamilton]

Re: Growler and other subs

Please list your proprietary loudspeaker patents along with the number and type of 5-axis CNC machines you have in your factory. Welcoming your response.

Tim,

While you are most certainly free to discuss your interesting views on loudspeaker assembly, is it too much to ask for you to show a little bit of courtesy and do so in your own threads instead of derailing those created by others?

Back on topic, I look forward to seeing some results from the upcoming get together. Unfortunately Indianapolis is a little far to travel on a whim.

 

[Mark DeArman]

Re: Growler and other subs

Don't feed the troll. You are all guilty for what happens.

PS> I worked for a company that made several of their own drivers in house.

We build about 90% of our drivers in house, including compression drivers for older products.

Box builders also don't spend hundreds of hours and build dozens of samples perfecting a design nor do they warranty or support the products. Don't forget the passive crossover networks that go into all the loudspeakers.

You may say I'm wrong, but I think it takes a lot more work to build a quality product from OEM parts than it does if you have the ability to make the drivers in house. I'm not saying it can't be done, (we have our fair share of high volume, lower cost products which use OEM drivers) I just think it makes the job harder, as you have less control over all the variables. This is especially true when designing passive networks.

 

[Leland Crooks]

Re: Growler and other subs

Ask Eminence how many proprietary drivers they make a year. It outnumbers their branded stuff by probably 10 to 1. Nobody knows who for, and they won't tell you.

 

[Tim Duffin]

Re: Growler and other subs

Interestingly enough, patents aren't always the whole story. For example, Fulcrum Acoustic doesn't list any patents of its own (although the several that they do list were all developed by their founders). And I don't see any for Danley with a quick search. L'acoustic doesn't appear to have any US patents either. The other big names (EAW, NEXO, EV, Community, JBL, Turbosound, Meyer) don't appear to have more than a handful of patents each, many of which are quite old.

And what machines are in the factory is equally meaningless in today's world of contract manufacturing. For that matter, it's quite viable to be a large worldwide manufacturer, and yet not own any factories.

What matters is the end product. Both performance and consistency unit to unit. And while I don't have enough first-hand experience with the JTR products to comment on either, the reports from the filed appear to be positive.

Perhaps you should try something other than the free google patent search. And you are right, L'acoustics may not have any readily viewable US patents, try searching for international patents originating from oh, I don't know...France?!. This would probably require that you speak a language other than English and have access to more than a home internet connection. And your statement about JBL not having "more than a handful" -- are you sure about that or are you just limited in your ability to view patents based on your limited tools?

I don't buy this "what matters is the end product" crap. If any design can be easily and readily copied, no matter how much you like the guy building it, it sucks. Nobody copies the JBL Vertec line array because they simply can't do it, no matter how many resources they have they will never be able to match the manufacturing experience of JBL. At some point, a company with leading edge technology will have to design and manufacture the machines used to design and manufacture their products, making contract manufacturing irrelevant and outdated.

But, making junk with contract manufacturers and then reselling that junk at a profit by claiming that it is "custom" to hide its true origin is a very common business model in China. One would think the technique of all marketing, no manufacturing would be limited to developing countries. Guess its not. I'll sell you some "custom" airbags for your car if you are interested-- maybe you would be interested in "custom" beef from BPI?

 

[Spenser Hamilton]

Re: Growler and other subs

Well, this is done like last nights dinner. Anyone that cares to share their insight on the original topic is free to PM me.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Growler and other subs

Well, this is done like last nights dinner. Anyone that cares to share their insight on the original topic is free to PM me.

I think the original question was already answered unless you are doing a market research opinion poll.

DFTT

JR

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: Growler and other subs

Interestingly enough, patents aren't always the whole story. For example, Fulcrum Acoustic doesn't list any patents of its own (although the several that they do list were all developed by their founders). And I don't see any for Danley with a quick search. .

While it is true that Danley (the company) doesn't have any patents-YET. They are very much "in the works" and going through the process. Before any product/idea is released, the patent and supporting documentation has already been filed.

I am personally surprised at how long it is taking-but that's the way it is. In due time.

And after they are issued-then it start to be enforced and going after people who are already in violation.

 

[Spenser Hamilton]

Re: Growler and other subs

I think the original question was already answered unless you are doing a market research opinion poll.

DFTT

JR

Edit: Anyone from Canada ever import some Growlers? If so, how hard did you get hit at the border?

More than a few fellow Canadians have PM'ed me offering insight and advice, a lot of them have expressed similar reservations about importing Growlers. I'd like to hear from Jeff, but if we're just going to feed the troll instead I can take a hint and contact him directly.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Growler and other subs

While it is true that Danley (the company) doesn't have any patents-YET. They are very much "in the works" and going through the process. Before any product/idea is released, the patent and supporting documentation has already been filed.

I am personally surprised at how long it is taking-but that's the way it is. In due time.

And after they are issued-then it start to be enforced and going after people who are already in violation.

My last patent (already a few years ago) seemed to issue quicker than previous patents, but I don't know what your frame of reference is. I have been active in the patent system over a few decades. If anything my complaint is that the patent examination is not very rigorous, and they leave it to the courts to parse out the details. Winning a patent buys you the right to sue, not a slam dunk in a field of activity where there could be some obscure prior art sitting around that "resembles" technology advances. The patent system doesn't depend on people understanding how inventions work, if they did TD would have a huge advantage.

I am a Danley fan boy so wish you much success. Making speakers that kick ass seems like a good business strategy. IP protection would be icing on that cake. Good luck.

JR

 

[Jeff Babcock]

Re: Growler and other subs

I'll share this again, it is the gateway to a low troll experience and takes 2 seconds to do.....



Just go to their profile, and click Add to Ignore List. DONE.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Growler and other subs

Ignore who...

JR

 

[Gary Phillips]

Re: Growler and other subs

My apologies for participating in lowering the SN here.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Growler and other subs

Imagine that he is reading your comments. Because he is.

Inflammatory comments do not make this go away, only adds to the enmity.

Stop already, please...

I don't expect him to listen to me, but expect more from this community.

I know it is human behavior to pile on any perceived weakness, but this does not reflect professionalism either.

JR

 

[Steve Hurt]

Re: Growler and other subs

Well, this is done like last nights dinner. Anyone that cares to share their insight on the original topic is free to PM me.

I own Growlers. Be glad to talk off line about them with anyone interested in them.
PM me with your questions.

I'll have one at the Indianapolis Speaker shootout next Monday
(which will not help those of you in Canada at all. Sorry!)

 

[Steve Hurt]

Re: Growler and other subs

So I mosied on over to xxxxxx's page ..... and found:

0 Friends
xxxxx has not made any friends yet

I was astounded. :lol:

What is the purpose of "friends" on SFN?
I have ignored this function completely.
There are a number of people on SFN that I have met and consider friends, but I have no "SFN friends" according to my profile

 

[Marjan Milosevic]

Re: Growler and other subs

I keep noticing this import to Canada problems. Why is that?

 

[Spenser Hamilton]

While I'm sure some regions have it worse than us, the cost of bringing an item over the border can be significant. The cost is also quite varied depending on who does the customs and brokerage, I've seen some pretty unreasonable charges from a few well known shipping companies.

I'd rather there be a JTR distribution chain this side of the border, at least then you know what an item is going to cost you prior to purchasing.


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