Growler and other subs

Re: Growler and other subs

Rob Timmerman said:
Not sure what this "google patent search" is - I searched the USPTO data base directly with their own tools. I'll also admit to neither being an IP lawyer, nor spending a particularly large amount of time searching for patents. The search was merely to gather enough data to illustrate a point. And as Ivan points out, the patent system can be rather slow to function. It's not uncommon for a patent to take several years from application to issue.

Regarding contract manufacturing, it is evident from your post that you are not familiar with the modern world of contract manufacturing. Let us take the widely publicized example of Apple Computer, a company that few would argue is not one of the leading consumer electronics companies in the US, if not the world. Per the latest annual report published by Apple, they own a single manufacturing facility, located in Cork, Ireland. Yet most of their products say "Assembled in China" on them. How can this be? The answer is simple - the devices are built by a contract manufacturer in China (Foxconn is one, there are undoubtedly others). Apple has provided their CMs with a design, and the CM builds it under contract. This contract often includes stipulations about intellectual property, and the run rates that Apple expects. Apple then places orders with the CM for the product it has designed.

Now, one could argue that Apple makes commodity devices, and that there isn't really any special sauce in the hardware. And that may be true, or it may not. I won't argue that point; I have better things to do. But contract manufacturing also occurs at the other end of the spectrum, with things that are decidedly not commodity. Places like Advance Circuits (a pretty well known circuit board manufacturer) and any number of machine shops come to mind. As does a company by the name of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Limited (TSMC). TSMC is one of the big chip fab companies, and they make the custom A5 and A6 chips that Apple uses in their hardware. And Apple is not alone in using TSMC and other contract fab companies. Other companies that contract out their semiconductor fabrication include names you might have heard of. Names like Qualcomm, Broadcom, Nvidia, ATI, and Marvell.

Closer to on topic, how many audio manufacturers do you think make the circuit boards that are integral to their products in-house? Care to name ones that do?

But no, contract manufacturing is only for knockoff products that anyone can make....
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You are mentioning only silicon fab manufacturing. Not mechanical devices of any type. It is true that you can have boards made in China at low cost due to the loose environmental laws. I find it interesting that you believe that the machines which make the silicon devices that you mention are made in China. They are not-- they are ALL made in the united states because chinese businessmen do not trust shoddy chinese etch/clean/fab or sub 25um fab machines made in China. So yes, The assembly line is located in China, comprised of VERY expensive US made fabrication machines.

It is obvious that your experience is limited solely to online forums and you have never actually seen a spin/etch machine with your own eyes or even know where they come from, otherwise you would not have made such naive comments.

BSS makes their own boards in Sandy Utah, as I have personally seen their fab and wave solder machines with my own eyes and touched them. No part of a BSS product is manufactured in China.
 
Re: Growler and other subs

Tim,

I think the whole point here is that you're being a total asshole to, at the very least, Jeff Permanian - who is a hard working guy making a well regarded product who doesn't need you shitting all over his company. It's hard enough trying to run a loudspeaker brand as it is. Certainly I appreciate your color on these forums, but in this case I'd appreciate it if you'd take a step back.

Dust Speck.jpeg
 
Re: Growler and other subs

Tim Duffin said:
You are mentioning only silicon fab manufacturing. Not mechanical devices of any type. It is true that you can have boards made in China at low cost due to the loose environmental laws. I find it interesting that you believe that the machines which make the silicon devices that you mention are made in China. They are not-- they are ALL made in the united states because chinese businessmen do not trust shoddy chinese etch/clean/fab or sub 25um fab machines made in China. So yes, The assembly line is located in China, comprised of VERY expensive US made fabrication machines.

It is obvious that your experience is limited solely to online forums and you have never actually seen a spin/etch machine with your own eyes or even know where they come from, otherwise you would not have made such naive comments.

BSS makes their own boards in Sandy Utah, as I have personally seen their fab and wave solder machines with my own eyes and touched them. No part of a BSS product is manufactured in China.
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Huh? Apple isn't a silicon fab. And TSMC isn't in the PRC (although it is in the RoC, so an argument could be made there). Advanced Circuits is wholly US based, with manufacturing in Aurora, CO, Tempe, AZ, and Maple Grove MN.

My post wasn't about China, it was about the need for companies owning their own factories.
 
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Re: Growler and other subs

There is atless one sound company in just about every major city within the USA with JTR's loudspeakers and there are also speaker shootouts like the one in Indiana last week. Yes, there is a bit of a gamble purchasing speakers unheard which is why JTR offers a 30 day money back guarranty.
 
Re: Growler and other subs

Bennett Prescott said:
Tim,

I think the whole point here is that you're being a total asshole to, at the very least, Jeff Permanian - who is a hard working guy making a well regarded product who doesn't need you shitting all over his company. It's hard enough trying to run a loudspeaker brand as it is. Certainly I appreciate your color on these forums, but in this case I'd appreciate it if you'd take a step back.
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noted.
 
Re: Growler and other subs

Tim Duffin said:
noted.
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Tim, I get where your coming from and that was Henry Ford’s vision as well however modern day manufacturing is very different than back then. Take a look at most auto manufactures, I'm sure you've seen Bosch and Delco branding on many of the components.

You have to look at the cost of the machinery, personal, maintenance, shop space, etc when calculating what is most efficient way of producing product. There probably isn't a speaker manufacture making its own connectors, wires and capacitors. There are only a few assembling their own drivers and I say assembling because they are probably not producing their own magnets, steel, baskets, voice coils, spiders, cones, surrounds, etc. Pick up a copy of "Loudspeaker Industry Sourcebook" and you'll see what I mean. If you ever need anything feel free to give me a call.
 
Re: Growler and other subs

Spenser, Im not a JTR fan boy but I have 6 Growlers, I like them because they are very scalable with very good musical output, I can run 1 a side, a pair strapped to a dolly board (where they normally live) and add 2 more to center clsuter 6 - the output is impresive on a PL6. I use them with SOS rigs and scale them up with my QRx boxes, sometimes 2 or 3 a side. Makes a nice PORTABLE rig.

No matter what these young whippersnappers here say about them, they a very good subs - they a designed properly, and from what I understand with some guidance from Mr Danley, although I may be mistaken.

Ive had these subs for several years, and do not find my self tiring or have GAS for anythng else - I guess that means I have not heard better in my experience than what they can do. I can not imagine any good sound engineer not getting very good results from them.

In addition, I get repeat business not only because of my service, but because of the quality of the sound, these subs are a large part of that, at least under 95Hz...

Best,
Mike
 
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