Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Does anyone know why this is an issue in the US, but not in Europe? Or at least here in Denmark it is a non-issue. Sure, for large expensive productions UPSs are used, but that's more in case of someone accidentally pulling the plug or messing with a generator. Fluctuations in the power from the grid are just not occuring.

Is it something to do with the 110/230V thing or is it because the powerlines in the US run above the ground much of the time?
 
Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

That is a good question, it seems like power here is much more stable than in the US.

I've never had a over/under voltage problem at a gig as I am aware of. I suspect having 230V gives us a bigger window of operation before we get problems, a few volts off is not as bad as it's a relative low change in percentage.
 
Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Eric Cagle said:
I am posting this in JV to again remind all users of digital consoles how important a good uninterruptable power supply is for your digital devices.
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Interesting. Do you have some current gear that doesn't use a switching supply? Are you seeing brownouts that go under 90v?

I can see some value in a UPS at an outdoor festival where there is some chance of getting your power cable kicked out, but otherwise, not so much.
 
Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

I'm in bars 99% of my gigs, I'm maxed on the 2 crappy circuits I'm given. You never know what is wired on a circuit, something in the kitchen gets turned on and the breaker pops. Or they turn on the outside lights and boom. Almost monthly scenario for me.
 
Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Larry Lewis said:
CyberPower PFC sinewave series. Reasonably-priced and reasonable weight. I have one on FOH and replaced my home computer APC Smart-UPS unit with one after the second round of battery replacement on the APC.

PFC Sinewave Series
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wow those look really impressive for the price..
"AVR technology stabilizes the AC voltage and maintains a safe voltage level without switching to battery-mode. This conserves battery life, and delivers cleaner AC power to connected equipment"
voltage regulation plus sinewave output for less than competing products with neither feature.

and with 10 outlets (half on UPS, half with surge only) it replaces a power bar (which if you're going rackmount isn't cheap)

too good to be true?

Jason
 
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Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Jeff Williams said:
I'm in bars 99% of my gigs, I'm maxed on the 2 crappy circuits I'm given. You never know what is wired on a circuit, something in the kitchen gets turned on and the breaker pops. Or they turn on the outside lights and boom. Almost monthly scenario for me.
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That's a scenario where a UPS is on point.
 
Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Jason Lavoie said:
wow those look really impressive for the price..
"AVR technology stabilizes the AC voltage and maintains a safe voltage level without switching to battery-mode. This conserves battery life, and delivers cleaner AC power to connected equipment"
voltage regulation plus sinewave output for less than competing products with neither feature.

and with 10 outlets (half on UPS, half with surge only) it replaces a power bar (which if you're going rackmount isn't cheap)

too good to be true?

Jason
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We've got several of the CyberPower 1RU (750VA & 1000VA) units in service, all have been trouble free and have always performed as advertised when we've had a power interruption.
 
Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Matt Errend said:
We've got several of the CyberPower 1RU (750VA & 1000VA) units in service, all have been trouble free and have always performed as advertised when we've had a power interruption.
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Does the AVR feature maintain a constant voltage output with ANY change in input voltage or is it the kind that corrects in stages as the input voltage changes? With my Furman Line Regulator the output is rated at a steady 117 with an input range from 92 to 132. I bought an inexpensive Tripplite unit which only restores the output voltage to "standard" after a variation of about 7 volts in the incoming AC.
 
Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Dick Rees said:
Does the AVR feature maintain a constant voltage output with ANY change in input voltage or is it the kind that corrects in stages as the input voltage changes? With my Furman Line Regulator the output is rated at a steady 117 with an input range from 92 to 132. I bought an inexpensive Tripplite unit which only restores the output voltage to "standard" after a variation of about 7 volts in the incoming AC.
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Dick, the published information on this product smells like "monster cable bull".

i quote:
"Automatic Voltage Regulation - AVR technology stabilizes the AC voltage and maintains a safe voltage level without switching to battery-mode. This conserves battery life, and delivers cleaner AC power to connected equipment."

They seem to be implying continuous conversion or dual conversion without saying it.

If you want or need AC voltage regulation without a battery go ahead and get a Sola(tm) transformer. Its not magic, it takes in more power then it puts out, the rest is given off as heat. They weigh a lot and they can go bad. see Voltage regulator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for technical info

Id simply ask an owner of one of these to set up a test using a Powerstat(tm) (variac). Adjust line in up and down and measure what happens to the output.
 
Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Tim Perry said:
Dick, the published information on this product smells like "monster cable bull".

i quote:
"Automatic Voltage Regulation - AVR technology stabilizes the AC voltage and maintains a safe voltage level without switching to battery-mode. This conserves battery life, and delivers cleaner AC power to connected equipment."

They seem to be implying continuous conversion or dual conversion without saying it.

If you want or need AC voltage regulation without a battery go ahead and get a Sola(tm) transformer. Its not magic, it takes in more power then it puts out, the rest is given off as heat. They weigh a lot and they can go bad. see Voltage regulator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for technical info

Id simply ask an owner of one of these to set up a test using a Powerstat(tm) (variac). Adjust line in up and down and measure what happens to the output.
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I'm lucky enough to have met a "neighbor" who lives about a mile from me who has a Variac, an O-scope and lots of great test equipment.......and the curiosity to help me evaluate stuff like this. I'd love to get hold of one and pay him a visit. It was very interesting to use the scope on my Honda 3K.........
 
Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Tim Perry said:
Dick, the published information on this product smells like "monster cable bull".

i quote:
"Automatic Voltage Regulation - AVR technology stabilizes the AC voltage and maintains a safe voltage level without switching to battery-mode. This conserves battery life, and delivers cleaner AC power to connected equipment."

They seem to be implying continuous conversion or dual conversion without saying it.
Click to expand...

It is not a continuous inverter and the Pure Sinewave TM (can you trademark a sine wave?) is only on battery. The AVR doesn't kick in until the voltage drops below a certain value (I've seen it happen during shows with questionable power and a Studiolive doesn't seem to mind). The upside is that the battery should last quite a bit longer than continuous inverters like the APC Smart-UPS.

If it was a $50k console, I might get something different. For a small UPS you can throw under the bar table, it fits the bill.
 
Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Dan Richardson said:
Interesting. Do you have some current gear that doesn't use a switching supply? Are you seeing brownouts that go under 90v?

I can see some value in a UPS at an outdoor festival where there is some chance of getting your power cable kicked out, but otherwise, not so much.
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Current gear......I am not shure what types of power supplys are used. Gear that I still currently use on occasion, yes. I still have a Lexicon Primetime 93, a PCM42, and some other vintage stuff I had in my recording studio that found its way into my main FOH rack. I am not shure what voltages occur occasionally but the Primetime used to freak out every few shows and my Protools rig crashed 7 or 8 times the first time I tried it out live without a UPS. Since I have been using a UPS I have never had an issue with anything analog or digital that didn't fall into the "Is it plugged in? Is it turned on?" catagory.

To answer the question about power issues in the US, I have seen voltage swings often, even when using a distro. It really depends on what is upstream on the service. I used to see swings of allmost 20 volts sometimes that were long enough in duration to be viewed on the Furman rack power meters at the Masquerade in Atlanta. This is not the norm at most places though. I have also been behind more than one digital console that rebooted mid show because there was no UPS in place. I used to work as a hired gun and it amazed me in those early days to often see a digital console running without one. As mentioned earlier in this thread, losing front of house for those seconds during a reboot seems like an eternity and as we say in the south, "There ain't nothing you can do but wait."
 
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Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Larry Lewis said:
It is not a continuous inverter and the Pure Sinewave TM (can you trademark a sine wave?) is only on battery. The AVR doesn't kick in until the voltage drops below a certain value (I've seen it happen during shows with questionable power and a Studiolive doesn't seem to mind). The upside is that the battery should last quite a bit longer than continuous inverters like the APC Smart-UPS.

If it was a $50k console, I might get something different. For a small UPS you can throw under the bar table, it fits the bill.
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I think the claim that it is not continuous conversion AND it regulates (boost low voltage) without battery assistance is mutually exclusive. Well it could be relay bypassed in normal mode but it must contain some sort of power supply of an equal to or greater then v-a capacity to run the generator circuit... or maybe its got an autoformer similar to the furball..er Furman.

This would undoubtedly add to the weight and cost.

The "pure sinewave" generator would function the same as on battery or "AVR".

If this product preforms as advertised it sounds marvelous especially at the prices listed.

How it can do this in competition with industry standards such as Liebert and ETON (Powerware) is beyond me.
 
Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

I found a local store that had one of these Cyberpower units in stock so I figured I'd give it a go.. picked up the smallest one for only $144 CAD
also, i'm never one to pass up an opportunity to pull out the 'mad scientist' power supply :)

BUT unfortunately the power cord for it is so old that it is crumbling :( and I'm not crazy enough to plug it in.. so the tests will have to wait for another day.

Jason
 

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Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Jason Lavoie said:
I found a local store that had one of these Cyberpower units in stock so I figured I'd give it a go.. picked up the smallest one for only $144 CAD
also, i'm never one to pass up an opportunity to pull out the 'mad scientist' power supply :)

BUT unfortunately the power cord for it is so old that it is crumbling :( and I'm not crazy enough to plug it in.. so the tests will have to wait for another day.

Jason
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wow that's an oldie! but it seems to have a volt and a current meter. way cool. Take an IEC cable of which there are a bizillian of and cut off one end. replace bad cable and test with 100W lightbulb as load. (I use 2 500W lamps in parallel because sometimes I I need to check calibration on 10A ammeters.)
 
Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Tim Perry said:
wow that's an oldie! but it seems to have a volt and a current meter. way cool. Take an IEC cable of which there are a bizillian of and cut off one end. replace bad cable and test with 100W lightbulb as load. (I use 2 500W lamps in parallel because sometimes I I need to check calibration on 10A ammeters.)
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yup. fortunately the power cord goes in through a cable clamp so it should be just a matter of redoing the marettes or whatever inside.
The meters aren't very accurate but it is fun to watch them dance. when you're concentrating on a circuit they're much easier to keep track of out of the corner of your eye than digital meters that's for sure.

Jason
 
Re: Hey digital console users don't forget your UPS

Helge Dr. Bentsen said:
That is a good question, it seems like power here is much more stable than in the US.

I've never had a over/under voltage problem at a gig as I am aware of. I suspect having 230V gives us a bigger window of operation before we get problems, a few volts off is not as bad as it's a relative low change in percentage.
Click to expand...

Power Utiliy's do mess with power as they need sometimes to change taps so they can lower the voltage on the lines, so it happens more frequently in large areas where you have few nodes.
 
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