Infocomm???

Re: Infocomm???

Ivan Beaver said:
I have not measured it, but I think Doug Jones (who did the alignment) said he was getting 105A slow at the far seats which were around 700' away.

Generally 105A is the "target" for stadium systems. More if we can get it.
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I went to a game late in the season last year and had seats in the far end zone. There was nothing.... Nada above 3k. I was later told they had the HF off for that game though.


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Re: Infocomm???

David Sturzenbecher said:
I went to a game late in the season last year and had seats in the far end zone. There was nothing.... Nada above 3k. I was later told they had the HF off for that game though.


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Why would they turn the HF off?

The knee of air absorption is around 4Khz. Above that there is A LOT of loss. Depending on conditions, at that distance you could have 50dB or more loss-due to the air absorption itself- not to mention the ADDITIONAL 50dB of loss due to inverse square.
 
Re: Infocomm???

Kind of on the topic, over ten years ago someone posted a link to "debunking stereo".
It was great. It was more about the futility of mixing live in stereo.
I have not been able to find it for some time.
 
Re: Infocomm???

In fact I recently found out that I had a nickname unbeknownst to me for years. A kid that works for me was telling someone else who he was working for, and they said, "One Stack Jack?" I can dig it. (My solution to many asymmetrical/small clubs back in the day.)
 
Re: Infocomm???

David Sturzenbecher said:
I don't really know why they would. If they didn't the Caleb has a solid 2.5k rolloff at the far end...View attachment 13025


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This is the problem with using an RTA

An RTA plot shows NOTHING about the response of the speaker system. Only what is present at the microphone- which is a combination of the input source material and the response of the speaker and all of the ambient noise and any reflections the room has.

That low freq spike could be the response of the speaker system-or a truck or train going by.

If there was no high freq in the source-then there would be nothing coming out of the speaker.
 
Re: Infocomm???

David Sturzenbecher said:
I went to a game late in the season last year and had seats in the far end zone. There was nothing.... Nada above 3k. I was later told they had the HF off for that game though.


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Click to expand...
As Paul Harvey says-NOW- for the rest of the story

There was a preset that the customer wanted-which involved muting the HF of the Jericho. Apparently the programmers of the system control were having an issue implementing it properly.

This is the preset that was used when you were there.

It was found out after the game that the HF was indeed muted, (resulting in your lack of HF), and the interested parties were informed.

So, yes the HF should NOT have been muted-but it was.

And then you add the fact that the operator cannot even hear the stadium PA and is playing crap MP3s, and you end up with "not so steller" results.
 
Re: Infocomm???

Jack Arnott said:
In fact I recently found out that I had a nickname unbeknownst to me for years. A kid that works for me was telling someone else who he was working for, and they said, "One Stack Jack?" I can dig it. (My solution to many asymmetrical/small clubs back in the day.)
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Like...

One stack for the whole shebang, or one stack for each major sound source...

Stereo is a hifi thing that makes no sense for sound reinforcement.

JR
 
Re: Infocomm???

John Roberts said:
Like...

One stack for the whole shebang, or one stack for each major sound source...

Stereo is a hifi thing that makes no sense for sound reinforcement.

JR
Click to expand...

I agree. I have been mixing in stereo on many small shows and almost everything gets panned center...even FX returns for proper balance. in some cases a stereo chorus effect...has a slight benefit in some seats from a small panning factor..but that's all I could come up with...and I experiment a lot!
 
Re: Infocomm???

John Chiara said:
I agree. I have been mixing in stereo on many small shows and almost everything gets panned center...even FX returns for proper balance. in some cases a stereo chorus effect...has a slight benefit in some seats from a small panning factor..but that's all I could come up with...and I experiment a lot!
Click to expand...

Some delay based effects will create their stereo output where one delayed signal is added to the dry to make the right output, and the left has the delay subtracted from the dry. If these two get summed to mono, the added and subtracted part cancels out and the effect is degraded or worse. So stereo can make a difference with some reverbs, chorus, flanging, etc, so do what the gig needs. If the EFX have stereo out, and you are mixing mono, just use one side or the other, do not sum them.

JR
 
Infocomm???

Ivan Beaver said:
As Paul Harvey says-NOW- for the rest of the story

There was a preset that the customer wanted-which involved muting the HF of the Jericho. Apparently the programmers of the system control were having an issue implementing it properly.

This is the preset that was used when you were there.

It was found out after the game that the HF was indeed muted, (resulting in your lack of HF), and the interested parties were informed.

So, yes the HF should NOT have been muted-but it was.

And then you add the fact that the operator cannot even hear the stadium PA and is playing crap MP3s, and you end up with "not so steller" results.
Click to expand...

It was the HF of the Caleb that was muted not the Jericho. It's really too bad too. Quite silly to go through a whole
game like that if you ask me.


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Re: Infocomm???

We can't be that far from a time when the audience complains about bad sound on social media and if enough people complain, it will be brought to somebody's attention in real time, or close enough to fix it... Of course we need to ignore the 99% who don't know what they're talking about.

JR
 
Re: Infocomm???

I was going to suggest a while ago that this topic be changed, but it's swerved at least 3 times since then.. wow. I don't think such a meandering topic has ever been so popular before :)

Jason
 
Re: Infocomm???

David Sturzenbecher said:
It was the HF of the Caleb that was muted not the Jericho. It's really too bad too. Quite silly to go through a whole
game like that if you ask me.


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Click to expand...
The Caleb IS part of the Jericho line. It is the J5.

The operator can not hear the system and I guess nobody said anything about the HF being out.

I guess you can blame the DSP programmers and/or system operation on that one.

But you can't judge the response of a speaker when the HF is muted-----------------
 
Re: Infocomm???

John Roberts said:
We can't be that far from a time when the audience complains about bad sound on social media and if enough people complain, it will be brought to somebody's attention in real time, or close enough to fix it... Of course we need to ignore the 99% who don't know what they're talking about.

JR
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Of course it (social media) can also have quite the opposite effect.

After the install at lambeau field-there was a social media post (on a thread about hte new system) that the new sound system was nowhere nearly as good as the old one.

Which is strange because the operators at the field love the new system and talk about how much better it is.

THE REST OF THE STORY-is that the guy who was "stating" it was not as good, DOES NOT ATTEND GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!

His house is a mile or so away and since the new system does not blast towards his house it "COULD NOT" be as good?? Right???

The new system is a distributed system that shoots down into the bowl and keeps the energy within the stadium

Of course that does not keep people from "spouting off" and trying to be an "expert", when they have no idea what they are talking about.

SO I guess it depends on who you talk to--------------
 
Re: Infocomm???

John Roberts said:
We can't be that far from a time when the audience complains about bad sound on social media and if enough people complain, it will be brought to somebody's attention in real time, or close enough to fix it... Of course we need to ignore the 99% who don't know what they're talking about.

JR
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Great, more critics.

What am I saying, do you hear and see the quality of the YouTube crap they listen to?

I think the main reason that there is an uptick in concert attendance is that it is the only place left to hear quality sound.
 
Re: Infocomm???

Ivan Beaver said:
Of course it (social media) can also have quite the opposite effect.

After the install at lambeau field-there was a social media post (on a thread about hte new system) that the new sound system was nowhere nearly as good as the old one.

Which is strange because the operators at the field love the new system and talk about how much better it is.

THE REST OF THE STORY-is that the guy who was "stating" it was not as good, DOES NOT ATTEND GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!

His house is a mile or so away and since the new system does not blast towards his house it "COULD NOT" be as good?? Right???

The new system is a distributed system that shoots down into the bowl and keeps the energy within the stadium

Of course that does not keep people from "spouting off" and trying to be an "expert", when they have no idea what they are talking about.

SO I guess it depends on who you talk to--------------
Click to expand...

I already said to ignore the 99%, but it does seem like somebody would notice and say something to somebody.

I guess people are accustomed to sub-standard sound in such venues.

My point is not to take every complaint as serious, but if 10 people say the HF is weak, maybe check the preset. You could diagnose it from miles away, perhaps a human operator could too.

JR

PS: Even the best system will not overcome being operated incorrectly. We see this often enough.
 
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