inuke 6000 clipping

Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Per Søvik said:
Lets start with trying to find out what signal levels we are operating at here.
What is the name of the mixer and what does the meters show?
Given the sensitivity of the amp and knowing that mixers are often capable of putting out a signal level that is 24 dB above what the amp needs for full power, there is a lot of room for error here.
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Add to that the settings of Channel, Bus, and Main EQs, and any system EQ or BBE type device you are using. Bass boosting can run an amp dry and you will never hear it.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

I am running a old peavy mark 3 mixer. with one master for the tops and one master for the subs. meters where at the high part of the yellows, masters where at less than half way up. trims where at 0 infinity, the subs are the vp1800s, tops are yamaha s115v, subs are crossed over at 125hz, i took a look at the crossover and the gains are all the way up
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

I have the gear in the locked up in the back of the truck for next saturdays gig 8/29. I since came out of retirement of lumping and running sound to help out some friends who have a AC/DC tribute band. But hopefully there getting there own gear soon
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

carl brooks said:
I am running a old peavy mark 3 mixer. with one master for the tops and one master for the subs. meters where at the high part of the yellows, masters where at less than half way up. trims where at 0 infinity, the subs are the vp1800s, tops are yamaha s115v, subs are crossed over at 125hz, i took a look at the crossover and the gains are all the way up
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You are not helping hardly at all.

You said the gains on the crossover are "all the way up". What does that mean TO US? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

What is the MODEL of the crossover TO START WITH. Without that the answer could be anything-------------------

Different crossovers have different amounts of gain (some have no gain) -so without more information-who knows what is happening.

Do you have any EQ or compression in the system? That will matter also.

What does "at the high part of the yellow and half way up mean? Are you talking fader position is half way up?

What does "trims at 0 infinity mean? 0 (usually) means no gain. Infinity mean no level. HUGE difference.

Are there trims on the output that are post meter? I don't remember that console having any.

I say it ALL THE TIME-DETAILS MATTER-IF you want help.

Right now it is as if you are saying "I push my gas pedal halfway down-am I speeding?" What car-uphill or downhill-what is the speed limit and so forth.

Sorry to sound mean-but YOU and ONLY YOU can provide information to allow people to help you.

Throwing out one piece at a time is only going to make people go away and not want to help.

Sometimes the truth hurts.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Ivan Beaver said:
You are not helping hardly at all.

You said the gains on the crossover are "all the way up". What does that mean TO US? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

What is the MODEL of the crossover TO START WITH. Without that the answer could be anything-------------------

Different crossovers have different amounts of gain (some have no gain) -so without more information-who knows what is happening.

Do you have any EQ or compression in the system? That will matter also.

What does "at the high part of the yellow and half way up mean? Are you talking fader position is half way up?

What does "trims at 0 infinity mean? 0 (usually) means no gain. Infinity mean no level. HUGE difference.

Are there trims on the output that are post meter? I don't remember that console having any.

I say it ALL THE TIME-DETAILS MATTER-IF you want help.

Right now it is as if you are saying "I push my gas pedal halfway down-am I speeding?" What car-uphill or downhill-what is the speed limit and so forth.

Sorry to sound mean-but YOU and ONLY YOU can provide information to allow people to help you.

Throwing out one piece at a time is only going to make people go away and not want to help.

Sometimes the truth hurts.
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What he said! I have a small hobby system that uses a NU-6000 with 2 VP1800's per side and in a 450+ seat hall driven directly from an X32 and it will cause liver damage just blinking the 3rd LED. I never got it to clip yet, and I like hard rock loud.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Ivan Beaver said:
You are not helping hardly at all.

You said the gains on the crossover are "all the way up". What does that mean TO US? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
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At least it means they are both the same.... I should know but don't remember exactly what I did 30 years ago. My guess is maybe +6 dB gain in the bandpass trims.
What is the MODEL of the crossover TO START WITH. Without that the answer could be anything-------------------
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He said an old Loft...
Different crossovers have different amounts of gain (some have no gain) -so without more information-who knows what is happening.
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I designed it and don't remember.
Do you have any EQ or compression in the system? That will matter also.

What does "at the high part of the yellow and half way up mean? Are you talking fader position is half way up?
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Meters but unless the meters have a dB legend the colors don't mean much out of context.
What does "trims at 0 infinity mean? 0 (usually) means no gain. Infinity mean no level. HUGE difference.
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?? 0 could be unity gain, -infinity is full off.
Are there trims on the output that are post meter? I don't remember that console having any.

I say it ALL THE TIME-DETAILS MATTER-IF you want help.

Right now it is as if you are saying "I push my gas pedal halfway down-am I speeding?" What car-uphill or downhill-what is the speed limit and so forth.

Sorry to sound mean-but YOU and ONLY YOU can provide information to allow people to help you.

Throwing out one piece at a time is only going to make people go away and not want to help.

Sometimes the truth hurts.
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Ivan the terrible is being mean... I like him because he's using a Loft crossover. :-)

JR

PS: One long shot, what are the chances the subs are wired opposite polarity... that might cause them to lose output...
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

carl brooks said:
I am running a old peavy mark 3 mixer. with one master for the tops and one master for the subs. meters where at the high part of the yellows, masters where at less than half way up. trims where at 0 infinity, the subs are the vp1800s, tops are yamaha s115v, subs are crossed over at 125hz, i took a look at the crossover and the gains are all the way up
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You say that one master is subs and the other tops, OK.
But how do you have the crossover patched? Normally the full signal would enter the cross and split hi/lo to the amps.
It almost sounds like you are running the subs full range. The VP1800 has an internal passive low pass filter, (that I have removed), but the amp will still try to shove signal into it and waste power trying.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

John Roberts said:
OK log math is additive so 42dB is the same as 40 dB (100x) times 2 dB (1.258x) so assuming he is talking about voltage ratio and not power ratio the voltage gain would be 126x. Now if he was talking about power ratios we're talking a lot more. :-)

JR
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As I said, audio math isn't my strongest ability so you lost me... :blush:

However, my thinking was more of having the result expressed in something like "max +9dBu input voltage before clipping".
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

carl brooks said:
I am running a old peavy mark 3 mixer. with one master for the tops and one master for the subs. meters where at the high part of the yellows, masters where at less than half way up. trims where at 0 infinity, the subs are the vp1800s, tops are yamaha s115v, subs are crossed over at 125hz, i took a look at the crossover and the gains are all the way up
Click to expand...

So then at least we know that your output from the mixer probably is around +3 dbV or roughly +6 dBu, and assuming the Loft has no gain other than the level pots on each band, and you have those on full gain, we're now up at +12 to +15 dBu. Assuming you have turned down the iNuke 4-6 dB, we are still 9dB above clipping point.
Yes, when the iNuke is constantly clipping and thus at full power all the time, it will cut out.
Turn the levels at the crossover down to where you have no clipping light on the iNuke, or where you get just a flicker when the Peavey is at the second topmost led of the meter.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Per Søvik said:
So then at least we know that your output from the mixer probably is around +3 dbV or roughly +6 dBu, and assuming the Loft has no gain other than the level pots on each band, and you have those on full gain, we're now up at +12 to +15 dBu. Assuming you have turned down the iNuke 4-6 dB, we are still 9dB above clipping point.
Yes, when the iNuke is constantly clipping and thus at full power all the time, it will cut out.
Turn the levels at the crossover down to where you have no clipping light on the iNuke, or where you get just a flicker when the Peavey is at the second topmost led of the meter.
Click to expand...

And buy a hearing aid. You are a bass guitar player, in a reggae band, right?
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

i didnt know the subs have a crossover built in. i will pull those, and i will check the polarity. but the system is very basic. just the mixer with a sonic maximizer to the amp. with the trims at zero. (i thought it was called infinity). another words there not plus or minus just at the 0 mark on the pot. each fader is about 3/4 up. masters are at 1/2 way at the most. tops are full range just using the loft crossover at 120hz for the subs. the mixers has lights not meters for the main outputs a segement of greens, then yellows, then reds, when i was running 2 qsc's the amps would not clip untill i pushed it in the reds. But maybe i got a lemon with the inuke. i was thinking maybe put the inuke for the tops? it wont pull so much out of the amp?
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

carl brooks said:
I am running a old peavy mark 3 mixer. with one master for the tops and one master for the subs. meters where at the high part of the yellows, masters where at less than half way up. trims where at 0 infinity, the subs are the vp1800s, tops are yamaha s115v, subs are crossed over at 125hz, i took a look at the crossover and the gains are all the way up
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Ok , Carl From reading this post , it seems to me that your Masters need to go to unity and every thing that you have miced needs to come down from your board, It sounds like a gain structure problem to me. IMHO. go to this link and check out a ll the videos you can on it.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+set+proper+gain+structure
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

carl brooks said:
i didnt know the subs have a crossover built in. i will pull those, and i will check the polarity. but the system is very basic. just the mixer with a sonic maximizer to the amp. with the trims at zero. (i thought it was called infinity). another words there not plus or minus just at the 0 mark on the pot. each fader is about 3/4 up. masters are at 1/2 way at the most. tops are full range just using the loft crossover at 120hz for the subs. the mixers has lights not meters for the main outputs a segement of greens, then yellows, then reds, when i was running 2 qsc's the amps would not clip untill i pushed it in the reds. But maybe i got a lemon with the inuke. i was thinking maybe put the inuke for the tops? it wont pull so much out of the amp?
Click to expand...

yes take your crossovers out of the subs. it seems like you have too hot signal gain coming from the board to me.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Jimmy Hardin said:
yes take your crossovers out of the subs. it seems like you have too hot signal gain coming from the board to me.
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They are not cutting your signal that much and don't offer any real protection anyway. But I would bypass the Maximizer until you have it all working right. One more device and gain stage out of the way, not to mention the phasing those kind of things cause will not help you solve your issue.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

carl brooks said:
i didnt know the subs have a crossover built in. i will pull those, and i will check the polarity. but the system is very basic. just the mixer with a sonic maximizer to the amp. with the trims at zero. (i thought it was called infinity). another words there not plus or minus just at the 0 mark on the pot. each fader is about 3/4 up. masters are at 1/2 way at the most. tops are full range just using the loft crossover at 120hz for the subs. the mixers has lights not meters for the main outputs a segement of greens, then yellows, then reds, when i was running 2 qsc's the amps would not clip untill i pushed it in the reds. But maybe i got a lemon with the inuke. i was thinking maybe put the inuke for the tops? it wont pull so much out of the amp?
Click to expand...
QSC typically have +4dBu as highest sensitivity, and several of them have gain/sensitivity switches at the back giving you higher nominal input levels. It's not about lemons, it's about understanding your equipment and understanding what you are doing.
The iNuke have 42 dB of gain, a QSC at the least sensitive setting has 26 dB of gain. That is a HUGE difference, when the iNuke is at full power, the QSC set at 26 dB gain will be at 2.5% power.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Jimmy Hardin said:
Ok , Carl From reading this post , it seems to me that your Masters need to go to unity and every thing that you have miced needs to come down from your board, It sounds like a gain structure problem to me. IMHO. go to this link and check out a ll the videos you can on it.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+set+proper+gain+structure
Click to expand...
It is NOT a gain structure problem!

It DOES NOT MATTER what is happening in front of the power amp. If the amp is going into clip-he is simply asking to much out of it. You can do all the "readjusting" you want-but short of simply turning it down SOMEWHERE in the chain-the problem is NOT going to go away.

"Gain structure" is something that gets thrown around all the time (like many other audio terms :( )-and most people do not have a clue what it actually means.

The only advantage to setting properly gain structure (short of over driving a stage) is to increase the dynamic range of a system.

MOST people think this means making it louder. It is ACTUALLY THE OPPOSITE-It is all about making the QUIETER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is NO adjustment you can make that will get more level/wattage out of a system. That is set by the amplifier size and the speaker system.

What you CAN do is to lower the noise floor and make it quieter. THAT is the whole process behind "proper gain structure".

For most people in the "PA biz" the noise floor is something they are simply not concerned with-so in most cases "going through the steps" doesn't do anything for them.

HOWEVER the experience gained from it can be QUITE helpful for people what want to learn and know more about a sound system-some limitations etc. If all you want to do is "get loud" then don't bother-there is nothing to be gained from it.
 
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