inuke 6000 clipping

Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Ivan Beaver said:
It is NOT a gain structure problem!
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Proper gain structure gives you more control of what you are doing. If you are clipping amps when your output meters are in the low greens, then that is poor gain structure for a lot of reasons.
No, gain structure won't enable you to play louder, but at least it gives you enough control to play as loud as the equipment allows you to without the whole thing being a crap-shoot.
Don't scare a newbie away from getting the help he needs by making this about semantics.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Per Søvik said:
Proper gain structure gives you more control of what you are doing. If you are clipping amps when your output meters are in the low greens, then that is poor gain structure for a lot of reasons.
No, gain structure won't enable you to play louder, but at least it gives you enough control to play as loud as the equipment allows you to without the whole thing being a crap-shoot.
Don't scare a newbie away from getting the help he needs by making this about semantics.
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Thank you per, The op said that his masters were below half way or close to that and his trim's were at 0 and his channel masters were at 3/4 the way up, if he would turn the channel faders and the trim down and the masters up , i think he would have a lot of the problem dealt with. as you said he would have better control over the whole system.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Jimmy Hardin said:
Thank you per, The op said that his masters were below half way or close to that and his trim's were at 0 and his channel masters were at 3/4 the way up, if he would turn the channel faders and the trim down and the masters up , i think he would have a lot of the problem dealt with. as you said he would have better control over the whole system.
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The whole thread has been about the amp clipping. SORRY- BUT NOTHING (short of limiting) is going keep the amp from clipping.

Yes-you can make some changes to the gain structure to make the mix "easier to deal with", but that does NOTHING to keep the amp from clipping.

It is like saying that your tach in your car is redlining and then people discussing how to adjust the AC to make it more comfortable.

Both have to do with the "driving experience" but are COMPLETELY different things in that regard. You cannot change the RPMs of your car with the AC settings.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Ivan Beaver said:
The whole thread has been about the amp clipping. SORRY- BUT NOTHING (short of limiting) is going keep the amp from clipping.

Yes-you can make some changes to the gain structure to make the mix "easier to deal with", but that does NOTHING to keep the amp from clipping.

It is like saying that your tach in your car is redlining and then people discussing how to adjust the AC to make it more comfortable.

Both have to do with the "driving experience" but are COMPLETELY different things in that regard. You cannot change the RPMs of your car with the AC settings.
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+1.

Gain is gain is gain. Turning "this" down and "that" up will not fix the problem.

"Proper gain structure" is really "noise floor management".
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Jimmy Hardin said:
Thank you per, The op said that his masters were below half way or close to that and his trim's were at 0 and his channel masters were at 3/4 the way up, if he would turn the channel faders and the trim down and the masters up , i think he would have a lot of the problem dealt with. as you said he would have better control over the whole system.
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This will not solve the OP's problem, which is that the inuke has a ridiculous amount of voltage gain. The rest is pilot error, which I am restraining myself from getting involved in.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Chad Young said:
A big +1 to this. Oh, do not trust the 'bypass' button on the Sonic Sodomizer; it is not a true bypass. Remove the POS from your rack and use it to hold the door open or shim a wobbly table.
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Yeah, I was too tired to articulate this last night but it's exactly what needs to be done. Get that maximizer out of your system. I take those units as a personal insult anyways.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

It seems to me this is not as much about the B amp clipping as much as it is that one amp is clipping and the other is not.

Crossover notwithstanding, is this not simply the difference in gain between the two amps?

If, IF one wants both amps to peak about the same time, wouldn't this be solved by turning down the sensitivity on the B and possibly increasing (if needed) the sensitivity on the QSC until they start clipping about the same time?

Of course, that may end with a horribly lopsided sound depending on how much sub vs. top he has.

When I setup my amps (which I fed all separately from matrix outputs), I try to make sure the amp doesn't start clipping until the main/solo meters on my X32 bump over into the red (don't remember the dbFS off the top of my head). This way I know when the output from the matrix begins pushing the upper limits, that the amp is doing the same.

Incidentally, I'm also doing my crossovers on the matrices of my x32.

Sent from my SPH-L900
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Mitch Miller said:
It seems to me this is not as much about the B amp clipping as much as it is that one amp is clipping and the other is not.

Crossover notwithstanding, is this not simply the difference in gain between the two amps?

If, IF one wants both amps to peak about the same time, wouldn't this be solved by turning down the sensitivity on the B and possibly increasing (if needed) the sensitivity on the QSC until they start clipping about the same time?

Of course, that may end with a horribly lopsided sound depending on how much sub vs. top he has.

When I setup my amps (which I fed all separately from matrix outputs), I try to make sure the amp doesn't start clipping until the main/solo meters on my X32 bump over into the red (don't remember the dbFS off the top of my head). This way I know when the output from the matrix begins pushing the upper limits, that the amp is doing the same.

Incidentally, I'm also doing my crossovers on the matrices of my x32.

Sent from my SPH-L900
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You're running way way hot. The meter tops out at ZERO DBFS.

As I alluded to in my earlier post, the problem is the B has a very high voltage gain. Turning down the input controls on the amp would do wonders for the OPs problem. If the rig isn't loud enough he Needs More Rig for the Gig.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Thanks for the reply, Tim.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting running at 0 dBFS. I'm talking about the other end of the red scale (where it changes from orange to red). Don't remember how high re. FS that spot is. That's where I expect to be able to get before the amp begins to clip. Knowing that as I progress past that, that the amp will soon be into full clipping.




Sent from my SPH-L900
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

carl brooks said:
I am running a old peavy mark 3 mixer. with one master for the tops and one master for the subs. meters where at the high part of the yellows, masters where at less than half way up. trims where at 0 infinity, the subs are the vp1800s, tops are yamaha s115v, subs are crossed over at 125hz, i took a look at the crossover and the gains are all the way up
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Guy's I aint saying that it's the Whole Problem , all i am saying is that it maybe a contributing factor to a lot of the problem. from what i read on this post above , thats what led me to believe that it was a gain structure problem. and there was another post #34 that led me to believe that as well.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Jimmy Hardin said:
Guy's I aint saying that it's the Whole Problem , all i am saying is that it maybe a contributing factor to a lot of the problem. from what i read on this post above , thats what led me to believe that it was a gain structure problem. and there was another post #34 that led me to believe that as well.
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Not to harp on Carl, but there are a lot of apparent "problems" which we might be seeing from his posts. Tim, however has pointed out that the only thing that will help the problem stated in post number one is turning down the input to the amp. It's solved. Yay!
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Regarding the meter readings on the mixer:

There's a Sonic Crapitizer patched in between the mixer and the amps...
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Carl-when I said bypass the Maximizer, I mean remove it from your signal path.
Strip it all down to the most basic stuff. I would even run an iPod directly into an amp then add stuff in the signal chain.
skip the crossover and flip the low pass switches on the amp to do the job.
Add stuff one by one till you find the funk.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

i cant run the amp in low pass with 2 subs on one channel and tops on the other channel, when i first got the amp . I did that, i ran sound for a multi band party it was a nightmare, the amp was going into protection mode the amber lights around the pots where going from amber to red shutting down the amp for a second turning back on all night long. at the the time i didnt know what was going on. I was going to return it, but i got it on ebay from some shady place in NY. I figured I would try to figure it out. it doesent like a 4 ohm load. like i said I can get the 8 ohm subs sounding good but it clips bad, maybe i should have returned the amp. and picked up another qsc that was stolen
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

when i say i can the subs sounding good, thats in stereo mode crossed over with the loft crossover, 8 ohms a side only
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Ivan Beaver said:
The whole thread has been about the amp clipping.
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Not the way I read it - it sounds like he's confused about what those red lights are - they DO NOT indicate clipping, they merely show that the amp's limiters are being activated. I run a bridged NU3000 (1/2 of a NU6000) into a pair of TH-Mini's and commonly push up to 6db's into the amp's limiters no prob. Pushing harder than that doesn't raise the output and starts to sound "pumped" (and you can raise the RMS to dangerous levels). Of course, to properly utilize the amp's limiters you have to have your gain staging set so that nothing clips - I commonly just set the amp's attenuators WFO. You can try to limit upstream but you won't get the full potential output of the amp.
 
Re: inuke 6000 clipping

carl brooks said:
i cant run the amp in low pass with 2 subs on one channel and tops on the other channel, when i first got the amp . I did that, i ran sound for a multi band party it was a nightmare, the amp was going into protection mode the amber lights around the pots where going from amber to red shutting down the amp for a second turning back on all night long. at the the time i didnt know what was going on. I was going to return it, but i got it on ebay from some shady place in NY. I figured I would try to figure it out. it doesent like a 4 ohm load. like i said I can get the 8 ohm subs sounding good but it clips bad, maybe i should have returned the amp. and picked up another qsc that was stolen
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It sounds like your amp is not functioning at 100%. I am running 2 VP1800s per side, 4 ohm loaded, and just flashing the last led before the red and it is trying to rearrange the theatre seats. I would take it to a shop for testing. Sub in another amp for verification. eBay sell Grey market stuff all the time. I would never buy electronics thru them or Craig's list, ever.
 
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Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Glenn Adams said:
It sounds like you amp is not functioning at 100%. I am running 2 VP1800s per side, 4 ohm loaded, and just flashing the last led before the red and it is trying to rearrange the theatre seats. I would take it to a shop for testing. Sub in another amp for verification.
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He said it was a party so quite possibly outdoors - a single pair of those not clustered outdoors would be quite wimpy. And it is quite possible it was shutting down due to low voltage - you'd need a dedicated "stiff" circuit to pull that off. No 100' 16 gauge orange cords LOL.

I've only run a pair of the powered version indoors and they were quite "meh" but OK at sub-earbleed SPL - about the same as a pair of Peavey PV118's on a non-bridged RMX2450.
 
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Re: inuke 6000 clipping

Ron Kimball said:
Not the way I read it - it sounds like he's confused about what those red lights are - they DO NOT indicate clipping, they merely show that the amp's limiters are being activated. I run a bridged NU3000 (1/2 of a NU6000) into a pair of TH-Mini's and commonly push up to 6db's into the amp's limiters no prob. Pushing harder than that doesn't raise the output and starts to sound "pumped" (and you can raise the RMS to dangerous levels). Of course, to properly utilize the amp's limiters you have to have your gain staging set so that nothing clips - I commonly just set the amp's attenuators WFO. You can try to limit upstream but you won't get the full potential output of the amp.
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Ok maybe not clipping-but the limit of linear operation-------------
 
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