Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

Evan Kirkendall said:
Regarding my experiences with the iLive, here are my complaints:

The whole console feels like a dashboard to a plane. I'm just not a fan of mixing on it. Same goes for the Soundcraft digital desks. They both sound "fine," but they're not "fun" to mix on or convenient IMO. They just feel like MI boards, while the M7, SC48, ect all feel like pro boards.


Evan
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I grew up in airplanes. They don't have dashboards. They have control panels which give me a warm fuzzy feeling of confidence. I'm not sure what you mean. I used to own an M7. I sold it. In my opinion it was a digital version of an M3000. In the digital realm, I now own an SC48 and a pair of Soundcraft Vi4s. If it's up to me, I take the Vi4 every time. I have plenty of "fun" mixing on it. There's nothing "MI" about a $70k console. I must assume you are talking about Soundcraft Si consoles? I have no experience with them. Regards the iLive. I have played with one extensively. I think they have a lot going for them and they seem a good value. Good fit for a church install I think. Not the best tool for hard core hit and run audio.
 
Steve Payne said:
I grew up in airplanes. They don't have dashboards. They have control panels which give me a warm fuzzy feeling of confidence. I'm not sure what you mean.
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+1, I don't understand either. What Evan doesn't like is exactly what I do like, large numbers of controls visible and usable at the same time. Airplane cockpits are designed to get critical information to the pilot at the most critical of times, while traveling a significant fraction of the speed of sound. While live sound is rarely as important, the design goals are the same and one of the things I like most about the Vi series is the compromise they've made between how much control to show and how much to hide. Anything but the one-channel-strip-for-the-whole-console setup, please.

I have no trouble using the Vi stuff in a hurry, which I certainly can't say about the M7. The Vi is on my very, very short list of digital consoles I will happily take in monitor land.
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

70K console isn't even in my vocabulary and won't ever be. The question is....would a T112/IDR48 or 64 system FOH & Monitors be superior or equal to a competitor who has Verona/ M7CL/ or Yamaha M3000 when bidding shows of 2-3K attendance with standard riders for that size?
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

Brandon Blakeney said:
70K console isn't even in my vocabulary and won't ever be. The question is....would a T112/IDR48 or 64 system FOH & Monitors be superior or equal to a competitor who has Verona/ M7CL/ or Yamaha M3000 when bidding shows of 2-3K attendance with standard riders for that size?
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No. Here, at least, you'd both lose the bid to the companies carrying the SD8, PM5D, VI6 or Pro 6.
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

I would say iLive is the best bang for the buck in the low-mid budget class at the moment in my opinion. Having the options to run MADI or Dante recordings, using PL remotes for personal monitoring and wireless online editor software on Windows, MacOS and iOS is not bad at all in that class.

Having 2 surfaces as a FOH/Mon couple requires 2 mixracks with either analog split or 2 ACE option cards for conneting (the second mixrack can be a iDR16 then but one desk is gain master, the other desk falls back to digital trim, not really usable for all situations).

I would like to see better near-fader level indication (dual led bars for showing left and right level for stereo channels and mixes, compressor gain reduction and gate closed/open, like the PM5D does really well), faster touch screen brain, etc. but that would raise the price, maybe something for the modular series, off topic here, because we are talking about a quite different price tag then.

Overall, there are some really nice options in that price range, I like the Vi1 and the short hands on I got on the Pro2c. The M7CL is still the work horse. I don't like it much but I can get good results there.

Regarding riders, some acts carry consoles, some specify one console (most of the time NOT an iLive and most of the time the rider is hard), some accept anything that's usable (I call them soft riders). So it depends on what type of riders you get mostly.
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

kristianjohnsen said:
No. Here, at least, you'd both lose the bid to the companies carrying the SD8, PM5D, VI6 or Pro 6.
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Well we are talking $2-3K per day for sound, lighting, and staging at most of the events in this area. So I guess I should not use the actual attendance as a gauge because you could technically mix a 5K person show on a 16 channel Mackie, its the rider and the act that matters more. I don't know of anybody within 100 miles that has a PM5D or Pro 6 outside of a church.

Its sad that I hear so many good reviews about iLive and so many gripes about M7, yet M7 is the more acceptable because it says Yamaha.
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

Brandon Blakeney said:
Well we are talking $2-3K per day for sound, lighting, and staging at most of the events in this area. So I guess I should not use the actual attendance as a gauge because you could technically mix a 5K person show on a 16 channel Mackie, its the rider and the act that matters more. I don't know of anybody within 100 miles that has a PM5D or Pro 6 outside of a church.

Its sad that I hear so many good reviews about iLive and so many gripes about M7, yet M7 is the more acceptable because it says Yamaha.
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Do you already work in this market or do you want to break into it? If you already work in it, maybe you can review some riders of recent acts and get a gauge from there. Or maybe you can name some recent acts and some of us may know them well enough or have worked with them recently enough to suggest what they'd be expecting.
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

I already do about 30-40% of the shows in this market. Mostly Festivals and Fairs where capacities range from 500-2000 indoor and out. Some of the larger shows we've done in the last 2 years are The Bellamy Brothers, Confederate Railroad, Ricochet, Randy Houser, Jerrod Niemann, Shenandoah, etc....20 boxes of VR112 flown, 8 boxes of VR218, all Crest Pro 200 power. Nobody has ever refused to use our equipment, but some of these acts use 32 channels alone. Our current splitter snake is only 32ch. and our consoles are only 40 channels. Life might be easier with a pair of iLives and 64 channel snakes.....thinking out loud.
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

Maybe trying to grow yourself at the level you're at might be the best thing first. I would think that at the next step up in addition to replacing your consoles, you will also need to upgrade your PA. That being said, an I-Live system might fit your current needs, and if you can make money and grow your business at that level there's nothing wrong with that. As you grow into shows where an I-Live would get turned down, I'm guessing so would the Versarray.
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

I think you're right Adam. You have to know you're market and what people are willing to pay for. The buyer usually doesn't care what you have as long as you can do the job and do it on time. We've also gotten into the booking end of things to some degree so that we can be more of a "full package" for festivals seeking entertainment. I think the Versarray is what it is....but is definitely underrated and given a bad name by people who are too stupid to get the right processor and presets. Most guest engineers are pleasantly surprised at how good it sounds :) I know its limitations but up to 2-3 thousand its a capable system.
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

Brandon Blakeney said:
20 boxes of VR112 flown, 8 boxes of VR218, all Crest Pro 200 power. Nobody has ever refused to use our equipment, but some of these acts use 32 channels alone. Our current splitter snake is only 32ch. and our consoles are only 40 channels. Life might be easier with a pair of iLives and 64 channel snakes.....thinking out loud.
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An iLive will be perfect for you. You'll be upgrading the rest of your rig before you need a better console.


Evan
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

Bennett Prescott said:
+1, I don't understand either. What Evan doesn't like is exactly what I do like, large numbers of controls visible and usable at the same time. Airplane cockpits are designed to get critical information to the pilot at the most critical of times, while traveling a significant fraction of the speed of sound. While live sound is rarely as important, the design goals are the same and one of the things I like most about the Vi series is the compromise they've made between how much control to show and how much to hide. Anything but the one-channel-strip-for-the-whole-console setup, please.

I have no trouble using the Vi stuff in a hurry, which I certainly can't say about the M7. The Vi is on my very, very short list of digital consoles I will happily take in monitor land.
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Sometimes it is. Good of you to acknowledge that fact.

Chur,
Andy
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

I would add on the rider-acceptability front that the Digi Venue took several years to gain acceptance. Our D-Show system just sat around the shop most of the time, until we loaned it to a studio for a year or so. When the Profile surface came out we bought one, and the damn thing actually started getting rented.

And the thing about Yamaha is that the company has a long track record of making workhorse gear that can handle a rock&roll working environment.

The other thing is that while it's cool that the iLive has a lot of options in configuration, it's also a bit of a curse for a rental house. Not unlike trying to provide plug-ins for the Venue, it becomes a lot more detail for a touring engineer to deal with when advancing a show. A Yamaha board will be exactly what you expect, just as long as you didn't forget to say "PM5D-RH" on your rider.
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

Caleb Dick said:
Agreed, even properly powered/processed, the Versarray is the weakest link. What about the Pro 2?
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I agree that the Versarray is the weakest link, but only due to the brand. The Versarray 112 is the cleanest box I've ever heard, some people can't stop blowing ribbons due to poor processing, but you must agree that ribbon drivers sound significantly cleaner than compression drivers. Many also agree that the VR218 is by far the best sub for the money, in fact a guy I know with a pretty big sound company uses VR218's under his KF850's with SC48's at FOH/Mon. He's de-logoed them and no BE has ever guessed that they weren't EAW subs. My only complaint with the VR112's is that they aren't quite as loud (perceivably) as some of its competitors due to the nature of the HF design. Has anybody ever turned it down? NO... Could I afford more than 2 4889's in this economy? NO....LOL

As to the Pro 2...it looks pretty cool but I think its going to be around 20K new and my budget is probably closer to 10K for something 48ch or +......starting to see some M7CL's with good prices on ebay....anybody have experience with the M7CL ES model?
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

Brandon Blakeney said:
I agree that the Versarray is the weakest link, but only due to the brand. The Versarray 112 is the cleanest box I've ever heard, some people can't stop blowing ribbons due to poor processing, but you must agree that ribbon drivers sound significantly cleaner than compression drivers.
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No. There are many Peavey products I will say are excellent bang for the buck, but the Versarray just cannot keep up, and while it is reasonably well behaved in the horizontal it is a total mess in the vertical. Totally different pattern in both axes off the ribbon and the 12". It sounds pretty good, yes, with the stock preset... but if you need it to get loud you can't use that preset.

Also, flyware with 2.5° angles only is kid stuff. Your options are laser beam, or comb.
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

I agree with you Bennett, there are some vertical coupling issues beyond 0 or 2.5degrees. Do you have any experience with the Mark II's or the VR212's? hopefully Peavey has addressed these issues with the newer models.
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

Brandon Blakeney said:
I agree with you Bennett, there are some vertical coupling issues beyond 0 or 2.5degrees. Do you have any experience with the Mark II's or the VR212's? hopefully Peavey has addressed these issues with the newer models.
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If there is a mark II it is news to me, I haven't used them recently. The VR218 is not bad but gets cranky when you really beat on it, like many less expensive subs, but is much better behaved than the QW218 near limit. I've never even seen a VR212.
 
Re: Is iLive the biggest/best digital for the money?

Brandon Blakeney said:
The Versarray 112 is the cleanest box I've ever heard, some people can't stop blowing ribbons due to poor processing, but you must agree that ribbon drivers sound significantly cleaner than compression drivers. Many also agree that the VR218 is by far the best sub for the money, in fact a guy I know with a pretty big sound company uses VR218's under his KF850's with SC48's at FOH/Mon. He's de-logoed them and no BE has ever guessed that they weren't EAW subs. My only complaint with the VR112's is that they aren't quite as loud (perceivably) as some of its competitors due to the nature of the HF design. Has anybody ever turned it down? NO... Could I afford more than 2 4889's in this economy? NO....LOL
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You need to get out more. ;)

The VR112's never got the job done for me, and Peavey's "rock and roll" preset makes me giggle. Crosses the 12 over at what, 6k?

Why do you need VT4889's? Theres plenty of other affordable options on the market! EV XLC comes to mind. Yeah, it's double the price, but you could use half the number of boxes and get better results...

The subs are decent, that's for sure. The tops? No thanks.


Evan
 
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