Re: Listening Get Together
Ignore what looks like a "76" at the bottom left, photoshopping error.
Chris
Ignore what looks like a "76" at the bottom left, photoshopping error.
Chris
Listening Get Together
- Thread starter Leland Crooks
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Re: Listening Get Together
I found this explanation of how it "works".
What is a Manipulated Vortex Waveguide?
Manipulated Vortex Waveguide tm is an electro-mechanical system that harvests and reuses the energy from the back of the loudspeaker transducer.
Basic Theory
Force tuning of the transducer does not occur.
Audio transducers are mounted in either cross-fired or single in a scoop configuration in order to provide better driver loading and dispersion.
Energy from the rear of the transducers is harvested, fractured and re-energized inside the Vortex Waveguide system.
Each fractured segment is time shifted in the waveguide prior to release in the output flare port where it is encapsulated by the output energy stream. The time shifted packets of auditory information are summed with the output of the front of the transducers in the scoop area.
The resulting multi-time-shifting signal exits the front of the cabinet encapsulated in the bass energy stream. This causes the creation of a nearfield event horizon. The resulting auditory information emulates sound creation in nature.
The de-correlated packeted information is summed by brain of the listener into correlated auditory information, as is done in nature. The multitude of of slightly time shifted audio packets created are reflection resistant and more natural sounding due to the manner in which the information is transmitted to the listener.
The Vortex Event Horizon provides an expanded nearfield effect allowing more efficient transmission of information to a larger audience area. This also provides the ability of the MVW loudspeaker to transmit auditory information beyond line of sight with minimal loss. The Vortex Event Horizon will wrap around objects, obstructions, and up to boundaries providing a self-adjusting nature to the nearfield.
I found this explanation of how it "works".
What is a Manipulated Vortex Waveguide?
Manipulated Vortex Waveguide tm is an electro-mechanical system that harvests and reuses the energy from the back of the loudspeaker transducer.
Basic Theory
Force tuning of the transducer does not occur.
Audio transducers are mounted in either cross-fired or single in a scoop configuration in order to provide better driver loading and dispersion.
Energy from the rear of the transducers is harvested, fractured and re-energized inside the Vortex Waveguide system.
Each fractured segment is time shifted in the waveguide prior to release in the output flare port where it is encapsulated by the output energy stream. The time shifted packets of auditory information are summed with the output of the front of the transducers in the scoop area.
The resulting multi-time-shifting signal exits the front of the cabinet encapsulated in the bass energy stream. This causes the creation of a nearfield event horizon. The resulting auditory information emulates sound creation in nature.
The de-correlated packeted information is summed by brain of the listener into correlated auditory information, as is done in nature. The multitude of of slightly time shifted audio packets created are reflection resistant and more natural sounding due to the manner in which the information is transmitted to the listener.
The Vortex Event Horizon provides an expanded nearfield effect allowing more efficient transmission of information to a larger audience area. This also provides the ability of the MVW loudspeaker to transmit auditory information beyond line of sight with minimal loss. The Vortex Event Horizon will wrap around objects, obstructions, and up to boundaries providing a self-adjusting nature to the nearfield.
Re: Listening Get Together
Ivan....
If I didn't know better, I'd think that was written by Douglas Adams......but he's been dead for a while now. I propose we invoke an SEP field regarding the bigE.
DR
Edit:
These things may turn out to be like my accordion. The farther you are from it (them) the better the sound......
Ivan....
If I didn't know better, I'd think that was written by Douglas Adams......but he's been dead for a while now. I propose we invoke an SEP field regarding the bigE.
DR
Edit:
These things may turn out to be like my accordion. The farther you are from it (them) the better the sound......
Sounds like something you'd say in a room full of people in a vain attempt to appear intelligent. Wonder what error correction scheme is on place for lost 'packets'.
Re: Listening Get Together
"Testing showed the the waveguide did indeed carry the full range sound production of the driver and that a virtual line array was forming in the output flare as power was added to the cabinet. "
Probably the same thing that changes the coverage pattern of the speaker as the input signal changes: As copied from the "development section"-----------
"Testing showed the the waveguide did indeed carry the full range sound production of the driver and that a virtual line array was forming in the output flare as power was added to the cabinet. "
Re: Listening Get Together
What testing? Testing general requires measurements, all my college professors are rage quitting as we speak.
What testing? Testing general requires measurements, all my college professors are rage quitting as we speak.
Re: Listening Get Together
This is not all bad-as everything should be "double checked" by listening-since that is what we do with audio.
However testing is a great way to "validate" what you are hearing or REALLY help to find out what might be causing the problem you are hearing.
Measuring also really helps to prove performance. It is quite hard to determine what the -3dB point is without measuring-ESPECIALLY on the high freq. Since most people can't hear as high as many speaker go.
Sensitivity is REALLY hard to do without measuring. And impedance gets REALLY hard-but you can always guess.
I would argue that there are many people in audio that "test" only using their ears.
This is not all bad-as everything should be "double checked" by listening-since that is what we do with audio.
However testing is a great way to "validate" what you are hearing or REALLY help to find out what might be causing the problem you are hearing.
Measuring also really helps to prove performance. It is quite hard to determine what the -3dB point is without measuring-ESPECIALLY on the high freq. Since most people can't hear as high as many speaker go.
Sensitivity is REALLY hard to do without measuring. And impedance gets REALLY hard-but you can always guess.
Those people are not claiming to have discovered gaps in our knowledge of physics that would have consequences reaching far beyond the audio field.
I showed the website to a physics teacher who specializes in high energy particle physics who immediately picked up on the implications this would have for our description of matter. And I showed it to an aeronautical engineer who works with drones who immediately picked up on implications about the inverse square laws.
Last time I checked the wave equation that was applicable to sound waves is a second order partial derivative. There is no way you are going to disprove that with just your ears.
Unless you want to rely on only the evidence of your eyes and believe the earth is flat and the sun goes around the earth, and call that science as well.
Re: Listening Get Together
Not only is the earth flat, Jay, but there are dragons around the edges to incinerate and then eat anyone unlucky enough to fall off the edge.
As for heliocentrism, you better watch what you say. Urban VIII was significantly unamused.
Not only is the earth flat, Jay, but there are dragons around the edges to incinerate and then eat anyone unlucky enough to fall off the edge.
As for heliocentrism, you better watch what you say. Urban VIII was significantly unamused.
I can think of several time periods I would have had severe problems in due to my inability to keep from responding to mass stupidity, including the current time period.
Anyway I propose Disaster Area for the band at the next listening party.
Not only does the emperor have no clothes but the royal wang is miniscule.
Or does that lead to another debate on measurement.
Re: Listening Get Together
Guys guys guys! I finally was able to measure one of these Big E thingies. I heard them testing one when I was walking outside today, and I happened to have all of my measurement gear on hand. They're right- even a few states away, it still sounds clean and clear! The vortex really manages to do cool things! Just look at this response!
:lol: :lol:
Evan
Guys guys guys! I finally was able to measure one of these Big E thingies. I heard them testing one when I was walking outside today, and I happened to have all of my measurement gear on hand. They're right- even a few states away, it still sounds clean and clear! The vortex really manages to do cool things! Just look at this response!
:lol: :lol:
Evan
Attachments
Re: Listening Get Together
Compare post #4 and post #322. Are we caught in a time warp, or just a vortex? Mark C.
Compare post #4 and post #322. Are we caught in a time warp, or just a vortex? Mark C.
Re: Listening Get Together
In a former life I had some editing experience when my dad had a printing business...
D'oh... I'll never get that 15 minutes back...
In a former life I had some editing experience when my dad had a printing business...
What is a Manipulated Vortex Waveguide?
Manipulated Vortex Waveguide tm is an electro-mechanical system that harvests and reuses the energy from the back of the loudspeaker transducer.
Basic Theory
Force tuning of the transducer does not occur.
Drivers [Audio transducers] are mounted in either cross-fired or single in a scoop ( <- this is important... see later) configuration in order to provide better driver loading and dispersion.
Energy from the rear of the transducers is not absorbed [is harvested], is bounced around and smeared [fractured] and further is not absorbed [re-energized] inside the Vortex Waveguide system.
Each time-smeared [fractured] segment is delayed [time shifted] in the waveguide prior to moving to [release in] the output flare port where it is combined with [encapsulated by] all the other wave bits [the output energy stream]. The delayed [time shifted] sounds [packets of auditory information] are combined [summed] with the output of the front of the transducers in the scoop ( <- this is STILL important... see later).
The resulting non coherent sound [multi-time-shifting signal] exits the front of the cabinet in the same air as the all the other sound [encapsulated in the bass energy stream]. This causes the creation of compressions and rarefractions (such as 17/43) in the air [a nearfield event horizon]. The resulting beautiful sound [auditory information] emulates other beautiful sound [sound creation] in nature.
The sound [de-correlated packeted information] is heard [summed by brain of the listener into correlated auditory information], as is done in nature. The beautiful sound [multitude of of slightly time shifted audio packets] created is [are] reflection resistant (somewhat like a duck's quack not echoing) and more natural sounding due to the ummm... air (?) [manner in which the information is transmitted to the listener].
The Vortex Event Horizon provides beautiful sound [an expanded nearfield effect allowing more efficient transmission of information to a larger audience area]. This also provides the ability of the MVW loudspeaker to transmit auditory information beyond line of sight with minimal loss. Nothing more needs to be said, but if all that isn't enough, The Vortex Event Horizon will wrap around objects, obstructions, and up to boundaries providing a self-adjusting nature to the nearfield.
So even with all this manipulation the Beautiful Sound (BS) is still ever present... but that's okay. The speakers are supplied with a scoop! And the BS is already in it!
Manipulated Vortex Waveguide tm is an electro-mechanical system that harvests and reuses the energy from the back of the loudspeaker transducer.
Basic Theory
Force tuning of the transducer does not occur.
Drivers [Audio transducers] are mounted in either cross-fired or single in a scoop ( <- this is important... see later) configuration in order to provide better driver loading and dispersion.
Energy from the rear of the transducers is not absorbed [is harvested], is bounced around and smeared [fractured] and further is not absorbed [re-energized] inside the Vortex Waveguide system.
Each time-smeared [fractured] segment is delayed [time shifted] in the waveguide prior to moving to [release in] the output flare port where it is combined with [encapsulated by] all the other wave bits [the output energy stream]. The delayed [time shifted] sounds [packets of auditory information] are combined [summed] with the output of the front of the transducers in the scoop ( <- this is STILL important... see later).
The resulting non coherent sound [multi-time-shifting signal] exits the front of the cabinet in the same air as the all the other sound [encapsulated in the bass energy stream]. This causes the creation of compressions and rarefractions (such as 17/43) in the air [a nearfield event horizon]. The resulting beautiful sound [auditory information] emulates other beautiful sound [sound creation] in nature.
The sound [de-correlated packeted information] is heard [summed by brain of the listener into correlated auditory information], as is done in nature. The beautiful sound [multitude of of slightly time shifted audio packets] created is [are] reflection resistant (somewhat like a duck's quack not echoing) and more natural sounding due to the ummm... air (?) [manner in which the information is transmitted to the listener].
The Vortex Event Horizon provides beautiful sound [an expanded nearfield effect allowing more efficient transmission of information to a larger audience area]. This also provides the ability of the MVW loudspeaker to transmit auditory information beyond line of sight with minimal loss. Nothing more needs to be said, but if all that isn't enough, The Vortex Event Horizon will wrap around objects, obstructions, and up to boundaries providing a self-adjusting nature to the nearfield.
So even with all this manipulation the Beautiful Sound (BS) is still ever present... but that's okay. The speakers are supplied with a scoop! And the BS is already in it!
D'oh... I'll never get that 15 minutes back...
Re: Listening Get Together
Sorry.
But it never hurts to reinforce a good idea. Maybe most people understood it after the first posting-I had to reread it to get a better understanding.
I am still a little vague on exactly what an "event horizon" is.
I still don't see a "scoop" in the cabinets (at least what is commonly referred to as a "scoop"). Maybe that is hidden in the rear of the cabinet and then the sound is compressed and "squeezed out" of the smaller "exits" (surely they would not be a simple port) on the sides of the cabinet.
I thought I had seen that somewhere before------------------------------But didn't go back to the first page
Sorry.
But it never hurts to reinforce a good idea. Maybe most people understood it after the first posting-I had to reread it to get a better understanding.
I am still a little vague on exactly what an "event horizon" is.
I still don't see a "scoop" in the cabinets (at least what is commonly referred to as a "scoop"). Maybe that is hidden in the rear of the cabinet and then the sound is compressed and "squeezed out" of the smaller "exits" (surely they would not be a simple port) on the sides of the cabinet.
Re: Listening Get Together
No worries; I was (trying to be) humorous with the reference to a vortex (per the Big E mumbo-jumbo). As far as an "event horizon", I'm most familiar with the term being used in respect to black holes. (But I'm not professional scientist, nor do I play one on tee vee.). Somebody here used the term psuedo-science to describe BigE's "explanation" of their stuff. That seems like a good choice of words. Mark C.
No worries; I was (trying to be) humorous with the reference to a vortex (per the Big E mumbo-jumbo). As far as an "event horizon", I'm most familiar with the term being used in respect to black holes. (But I'm not professional scientist, nor do I play one on tee vee.). Somebody here used the term psuedo-science to describe BigE's "explanation" of their stuff. That seems like a good choice of words. Mark C.
Re: Listening Get Together
The 20 kHz limit may have something to do with the anti-aliasing filter in the sound card.
There's also a measurement for the RachE-12. The impulse responses are shown with a time span so large (+/- 200 ms) that no useful detail is visible. The IR gating for the GC-25 is set to 1 ms, so the frequency response plot is not valid below 1 kHz, as indicated by the "Gating" marker in the FR plot. The gate for the RachE-12 response seems to be set a little further out, maybe 2 ms, in which case the derived frequency response is not valid below 500 Hz. However, the frequency response is shown between 20 and 250 Hz.
What to make of this?
The 20 kHz limit may have something to do with the anti-aliasing filter in the sound card.
There's also a measurement for the RachE-12. The impulse responses are shown with a time span so large (+/- 200 ms) that no useful detail is visible. The IR gating for the GC-25 is set to 1 ms, so the frequency response plot is not valid below 1 kHz, as indicated by the "Gating" marker in the FR plot. The gate for the RachE-12 response seems to be set a little further out, maybe 2 ms, in which case the derived frequency response is not valid below 500 Hz. However, the frequency response is shown between 20 and 250 Hz.
What to make of this?
Re: Listening Get Together
What I like to do is to use a resolution that is 1/10th of the lowest expected freq of the cabinet.
So it the expected low freq is 50hz-I like to have 5 hz resolution.
It is one thing to "measure" a cabinet-and quite another to do it properly and display it properly.
When a graph that is displayed and is obviously full of "errors" (such as going out to 100KHz for a loudspeaker), to me that says that the person "measuring" doesn't know what they are doing-so I cannot trust any of the "data".
And showing low freq with a short time window-is the "data" actually showing the response or just the noise of something nearby-did the person measuring have enough signal to noise ratio-or did they just "accept" what was shown on the screen as being accurate?
You should ALWAYS QUESTION your measurement. But that of course requires a knowledge of what you are doing and being able to tell if the data is valid or not.
If you don't know what to show-then how valid is it. Things like 100dB vertical scales are another indicator-what do you expect people to get from that?
Measurements are one thing-USEFUL measurements are quite another.
You will get "data"-it just doesn't mean much of anything if the window is to small. The shown data can vary over a huge range-and in some cases make the "measured" response look worse than it actually is.
What I like to do is to use a resolution that is 1/10th of the lowest expected freq of the cabinet.
So it the expected low freq is 50hz-I like to have 5 hz resolution.
It is one thing to "measure" a cabinet-and quite another to do it properly and display it properly.
When a graph that is displayed and is obviously full of "errors" (such as going out to 100KHz for a loudspeaker), to me that says that the person "measuring" doesn't know what they are doing-so I cannot trust any of the "data".
And showing low freq with a short time window-is the "data" actually showing the response or just the noise of something nearby-did the person measuring have enough signal to noise ratio-or did they just "accept" what was shown on the screen as being accurate?
You should ALWAYS QUESTION your measurement. But that of course requires a knowledge of what you are doing and being able to tell if the data is valid or not.
If you don't know what to show-then how valid is it. Things like 100dB vertical scales are another indicator-what do you expect people to get from that?
Measurements are one thing-USEFUL measurements are quite another.
Re: Listening Get Together
I never thought I would find myself bumping this thread, but there has been an interesting development. Reading the May 2014 copy of Voice Coil, I see Big E's patent has been issued! Here's what James Croft, who reviews patents for Voice Coil, has to say:
http://www.google.com/patents/US20140060959
I never thought I would find myself bumping this thread, but there has been an interesting development. Reading the May 2014 copy of Voice Coil, I see Big E's patent has been issued! Here's what James Croft, who reviews patents for Voice Coil, has to say:
Voice Coil Volume 27 said:
http://www.google.com/patents/US20140060959