Money $$$$$

JP Huff

JP Huff

Freshman
Jun 2, 2013
67
0
0
30
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States
So two weeks ago I mixed monitors for Little Texas (sorry for name dropping) and the production company told me they would pay me after the show. Of course...I still have no pay. I've called and emailed the guy and he keeps ignoring me. How do I get my money without being a jerk? Also, for my friends that hire me to come mix my show, what are some good beginner rates for small shows that seem fair without me going all out and walking away with barely nothing? I know it varies due to gas millage and gear brought etc, but Im looking for a good ballpark number. BROKE COLLEGE ENGINEER GOTTA GET PAID YOO :D~:-D~:grin:8)~:cool:~:cool:

-JP
 
Re: Money $$$$$

I hate to be the evil guy to say this, but you should have agreed on some way for it to be more reliably done (i.e. ask the manager of the company directly and sign something). At this point, balance your books as if you won't get paid, but keep trying. Keep sending emails, keep calling the guy, and perhaps even find a show he's doing and ask him about it while he's there (mean, but gets the point across). The other members probably have better ideas, but it will boil down to: don't expect to be paid. Also, the payment might not have been processed yet by the finance side of the company, since it's been two weeks and they might pay all of their expenses off at once at the end of the month (or a two week pay period- maybe you're on the next one).

About rates... for you as an engineer yourself, I'd say 50 dollars a night for labor, maybe something hourly around minimum wage, maybe higher- but don't go too high. Equipment is much different, and you need to calculate that out for yourself based on how much you paid for it, how many times you think it will last before breaking, how much you need to make to break even as a whole (and the percentages of what you paid for the particular piece compared to the whole rig), what you need to be able to have on hand for repairs/future gear, and finally, how much you like the people you are working for. If you're not the best guy out there right now, shift your margins cheaper, don't charge as much, take tips if they come. A great way to determine the cost for a system is go and build the closest one you can find from an existing rental company, and then try and factor in comparative skill between that owner and yourself.

A system that I'd bring to a 300 person outdoor gig would probably run about 500 dollars including all the extras (cables, effects, microphones), but the barebones for just the core system would probably be about 200-300, but I might be skimping. If you really just want to get out there and do stuff, charge 50 dollars nightly for you, and then tack on gas x2. Simple.


ohhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm *prays to summon people with a better idea of the industry to come and contribute*
 
Re: Money $$$$$

Rule Number one: get paid before you leave the gig. Ideally, get paid when you first arrive. The *only* time I'll make an exception here is when I'm good friends with the person paying me. Otherwise, collect right away!

I used to charge $60/night to mix my friends back in 2006. That's probably inflated to around $80/night these days. That's probably a good price to just show up and mix. Maybe bring a mic kit too, or some outboard. Any more gear and you should charge more!


I don't leave the house for less then $300/night now, and that's just for me!



Evan
 
Re: Money $$$$$

Evan Kirkendall said:
Rule Number one: get paid before you leave the gig. Ideally, get paid when you first arrive. The *only* time I'll make an exception here is when I'm good friends with the person paying me. Otherwise, collect right away!

I used to charge $60/night to mix my friends back in 2006. That's probably inflated to around $80/night these days. That's probably a good price to just show up and mix. Maybe bring a mic kit too, or some outboard. Any more gear and you should charge more!


I don't leave the house for less then $300/night now, and that's just for me!



Evan
Click to expand...

Same thing here. Time has gotten so valuable it takes a lot of money to get "just me" out to a gig.

I no longer do shows of any sort without prepayment, unless I know the people.
 
Re: Money $$$$$

Rates really come down to "what are YOU worth". Not somebody else. Maybe others get much higher rates-because they are worth it. And others get lower rates because they are worth what is being paid.

However being "stiffed" on pay is pretty common in this industry-get used to it. I could easily buy a new car (or two) with all the money I have never been paid.
 
Re: Money $$$$$

Not being paid, is not unique to this industry. If the amount is enough, a lawyer can help shake loose the geld, but the lawyer will need to be compensated too (been there done that).

The important rule is that you can not get blood from a stone (you can't get money from someone who doesn't have it), thus the practical logic of being paid in advance when operating in a business with flaky customers or a flaky business proposition of gigs returning a profit.

JR
 
Re: Money $$$$$

The sound reinforcement industry is a small world where I am from. No one lasts very long who doesn't hold themselves to a very high standard. I have no problem getting paid tomorrow, next week, at 6:41 pm on Tuesday, or anything reasonable as long as it is worked out in advance (This only applies to other sound companies and my good clients who I work with regularly of course). JP, if a production company treated anyone like that (and offered no explanation) their name would be mud around here. You might have to write that one off but I would pass along to other engineers what happened.

As far as rates my answer is whatever the market will bear. Starting out if you just want to work a lot and get your name out there then the obvious answer is whatever you can work out with each client. Audio engineering is kind of like acting, you had better have another job to pay your bills until you get established.
 
Re: Money $$$$$

Max Warasila said:
About rates... for you as an engineer yourself, I'd say 50 dollars a night for labor, maybe something hourly around minimum wage, maybe higher- but don't go too high.
Click to expand...

Just FYI, the rates over here in CT for the general labor union Local 230 are near $50 per hour for a no-name nobody that can just push cases. You better be charging more than that.
 
Re: Money $$$$$

Silas Pradetto said:
Just FYI, the rates over here in CT for the general labor union Local 230 are near $50 per hour for a no-name nobody that can just push cases. You better be charging more than that.
Click to expand...

That's awesome- can I push some cases up there sometime?

While I know that it should be more than that, 50 dollars for the night is something his friends will pay for. 50 dollars an hour has a fair chance of preventing him for work is his situation- at least until he establishes himself a bit more. Also, while it is a slightly different line of work, a lighting console programmer runs at $40 an hour around here last time I asked, making 50 dollars far too much just to push around cases.
 
Re: Money $$$$$

Max Warasila said:
That's awesome- can I push some cases up there sometime?

While I know that it should be more than that, 50 dollars for the night is something his friends will pay for. 50 dollars an hour has a fair chance of preventing him for work is his situation- at least until he establishes himself a bit more. Also, while it is a slightly different line of work, a lighting console programmer runs at $40 an hour around here last time I asked, making 50 dollars far too much just to push around cases.
Click to expand...
But there are differences. First you are talking about the Union-you have to join/be accepted. Also they pay taxes on earnings-just to start.

Part of it depends on whether it is a real job-or an "under the table" type job.
 
Re: Money $$$$$

I wish I could make $50 an hour. Myself and 3 other people that I work with regularly probably make twice what the average guy makes around here, but that's because we're not willing to sweat our asses of for minimum wage, those other guys are just hurting the industry IMO.
 
Silas Pradetto said:
Just FYI, the rates over here in CT for the general labor union Local 230 are near $50 per hour for a no-name nobody that can just push cases. You better be charging more than that.
Click to expand...

Is that what they make or what you have to pay?

Many people forget it actually costs more than an employees wages to employ them.
 
That's what the pay, average pusher Joe would be lucky to see $15 I know last time I worked union, I got paid 9$ and they charged 25$ for me. I also had to pay dues as an overhire but that's another discussion.
 
Re: Money $$$$$

Jordan Lahr said:
That's what the pay, average pusher Joe would be lucky to see $15 I know last time I worked union, I got paid 9$ and they charged 25$ for me. I also had to pay dues as an overhire but that's another discussion.
Click to expand...

Our Local is a "work referral" or "hiring hall" Local in a right-to-work (for less $$) state. The percentage of the hourly fee that becomes worker gross pay is roughly 73% of what is billed to the client. Some venues and clients have Training and Education fund and benefit plan contributions in their contracts; those contributions are separate line items on the labor invoice and not considered wages.

Kansas law does not permit us to assess union dues or non-dues compensation on non-members but we are allowed to assess a commission for the work referral service itself, and the commission is paid by the client, not the worker. For department heads (Carp, LX, Props, Audio) and specialized skills (other than rigging), worker gross pay ranges from ~$15/hr to ~$20/hr. Overtime after 8 worked hours or for work between midnight & 8am; double time @ 14 hrs; short turn around bonus; commercial use rate at 2 venues.
 
Re: Money $$$$$

Silas Pradetto said:
Just FYI, the rates over here in CT for the general labor union Local 230 are near $50 per hour for a no-name nobody that can just push cases. You better be charging more than that.
Click to expand...

There seems to be some confusion in some followup posts. Silas is not referring to an IATSE Local (Local 84 in Hartford). I don't know what Local 84's average rates are but I know they are a great local and very professional. Tough and by the book but a great crew every time I've been through.

As for the OP, take it as a lesson learned. It is your responsibility to know exactly how and when you are going to be paid. Don't be afraid to ask those questions.
 
Re: Money $$$$$

Jake Scudder said:
As for the OP, take it as a lesson learned. It is your responsibility to know exactly how and when you are going to be paid. Don't be afraid to ask those questions.
Click to expand...
It just sucks when the guy you are working for agrees to something, then doesn't bother to pay you as agreed. I think the excuse was something like "my wife left with the checkbook".

Anyway, I did get paid, but I had to camp out in his office and bother his office girl until he decided to go ahead and pay me.

I was really irritated that we agreed on terms three different times and he fell through all three times.

Consequently, I will never work for that guy again. I do not understand why I had a problem the one time I worked for him. I know others who worked for him often and never indicated that they ever had a problem.
 
Re: Money $$$$$

Josh Millward said:
It just sucks when the guy you are working for agrees to something, then doesn't bother to pay you as agreed. I think the excuse was something like "my wife left with the checkbook".

Anyway, I did get paid, but I had to camp out in his office and bother his office girl until he decided to go ahead and pay me.

I was really irritated that we agreed on terms three different times and he fell through all three times.

Consequently, I will never work for that guy again. I do not understand why I had a problem the one time I worked for him. I know others who worked for him often and never indicated that they ever had a problem.
Click to expand...

He may have just had a cashflow problem. no need to not work for him again (unless there are other reasons) just be clear about requiring payment upfront.. if he doesn't understand why, THEN you don't work for him again.

Jason
 
Re: Money $$$$$

Yeah I always bank on not getting paid like anything, but when I ask and they say "yeah sure I'll pay you!" then I get stuck in these predicaments haha. But as I'm not the best out there (yet) that seems fair! Thank you for the help!
 
Top Bottom