Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital audio)

K

kristianjohnsen

Senior
Mar 13, 2011
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Lillehammer, Norway
www.partyfabrikken.no
Hi guys.

Looking for some input now that I'm just getting started in the process of networking my company's wireless gear.

We are talking about UHF-R receivers and ULX-D receivers as well as Sennheiser EW 300 G3 receivers and EW 300 IEM G3 transmitters.

The plan of attack so far is:

1). Interconnect the various types of gear separately and with no computer attached.

2). Interconnect the various types of gear on one network, still no computer.

3). Control the various types of interconnected gear from a computer.


Looking at this video:
UHF-R Wireless - How to Set Up a System - YouTube
we see someone doing exactly what I want with the UHF-R gear.

Can the same be done with the ULX-D? I did read through the manual but saw only mention of using a computer with WWB6...

The video just says to connect each UHF-R receiver to the router and wait for the "network" icon to appear in the display of each UHF-R receiver. Is it really this simple?

What type of router will I need? Anything in particular to consider when choosing a router?

Provided the ULX-D can be networked without using a computer: How would one go about connecting both UHF-R and ULX-D receivers on the same network? Will they actually talk to eachother and coordinate with eachother when performing group scans, etc, or will they be just like two separate systems that happen to share one big router?

I obviously have no expectations that the Sennheiser gear will talk to the Shure gear, but will it all be OK on one network?

Thank you all for any insight!
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

I don't think the UHF-R and ULXD receivers will coordinate with each other - that's what WWB6 is for.

One little gotcha from UHF-R networking is that each unit needs to have a unique network ID, which is set on the network menu page. Numbers 1-whatever.
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

kristianjohnsen said:
...I obviously have no expectations that the Sennheiser gear will talk to the Shure gear, but will it all be OK on one network?
...
Click to expand...

I'm sure they will have an informal chat from time to time ;-)

I don't think being on the same network (C or D-Class, that is) would be a problem.
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

kristianjohnsen said:
I obviously have no expectations that the Sennheiser gear will talk to the Shure gear, but will it all be OK on one network?
Click to expand...

One venue I work in I have their Vertec/DrivePack line arrays, 3 DME boxes with 3 ICP controls, and my ULXD all on the same network. The DME are being controlled by each other and by the ICPs, while the line arrays and my ULXD are both being monitored/controlled by my Mac. All simultaneously.

Shouldn't be any problem in your case.
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

If I'm not mistaken, the UHF-R default to DHCP addressing while the G3s default to static addressed. A quick change for either of the models will fix any potential addressing issues.
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

Scott Helmke said:
I don't think the UHF-R and ULXD receivers will coordinate with each other - that's what WWB6 is for.

One little gotcha from UHF-R networking is that each unit needs to have a unique network ID, which is set on the network menu page. Numbers 1-whatever.
Click to expand...
Hi Scott. Thank you, most helpful. I still feel like it would have made sense for Shure to allow some of their receivers coordinate with each other even when not connected to a computer, but I'll just make sure our practices cater to how the gear is built.
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

Christian Tepfer said:
I'm sure they will have an informal chat from time to time ;-)

I don't think being on the same network (C or D-Class, that is) would be a problem.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid those "talks" will happen via the antennas, not via the RJ45s :( Hopefully, they'll talk nice most of the time!
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

Milt Hathaway said:
One venue I work in I have their Vertec/DrivePack line arrays, 3 DME boxes with 3 ICP controls, and my ULXD all on the same network. The DME are being controlled by each other and by the ICPs, while the line arrays and my ULXD are both being monitored/controlled by my Mac. All simultaneously.

Shouldn't be any problem in your case.
Click to expand...
That sounds very encouraging, thanks!:)
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

kristianjohnsen said:
I still feel like it would have made sense for Shure to allow some of their receivers coordinate with each other even when not connected to a computer, but I'll just make sure our practices cater to how the gear is built.
Click to expand...

FWIW the Shure Axient system can control UHF-R and PSM-1000 systems, and probably (haven't thought to look at it yet) ULX-D as well.
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

The UHF-R units can simply be connected to a network switch. The network icon will appear and if you do a group scan, the units will set each other through the network. You can then simply sync each handset to the appropriate transmitter. No computer is needed.
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

Scott Helmke said:
FWIW the Shure Axient system can control UHF-R and PSM-1000 systems, and probably (haven't thought to look at it yet) ULX-D as well.
Click to expand...

I had caught on to this also and kinda assumed that this would be possible across more of the Shure lines. Too bad, really. I don't think many will upgrade to the Axient stuff just to gain this functionality, anyway. I know the Axient system was out of my league when I went shopping, anyway.
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

Todd Friemuth said:
The UHF-R units can simply be connected to a network switch. The network icon will appear and if you do a group scan, the units will set each other through the network. You can then simply sync each handset to the appropriate transmitter. No computer is needed.
Click to expand...

I saw this in the video and was hoping that it would be this easy.

Do you know if the same holds true of the ULX-D gear?
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

Ulx-d units will locate each other on the same network. I always use wwb6, it will handle all the different units on a network.

It's a free download, give it a try :)

And if you use switches and need a DHCP server on the network, I have a free DHCP server program that can handle addressing. I've used it for wireless and amp control networks with great success.
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

Helge Dr. Bentsen said:
Ulx-d units will locate each other on the same network. I always use wwb6, it will handle all the different units on a network.

It's a free download, give it a try :)

And if you use switches and need a DHCP server on the network, I have a free DHCP server program that can handle addressing. I've used it for wireless and amp control networks with great success.
Click to expand...

Hi Helge, thanks for your comments, good to know about the ULX-D. Will they "sync" to eachother like we saw the UHF-R do in the video?

What some seem to be missing here is that the gear is being used by freelancers who might not always have the skills or an up-to-date computer at hand to run WWB.

The goal is for the gear to be sent out with whatever is needed to get satisfactory performance using only hardware, while I hopefully can utilize it to it's full potential using a computer with WWB, as well.
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

WWB runs on almost any computer. My old Win XP machine as well, and it's not SOTA.
ULX-D will locate and "sync" to each other when networked.

What you could do, like one company I freelance for, is to use a cheap laptop with WWB and other necessary audio apps and send it along with the wireless racks on those jobs where you need multiple units and wish to coordinate them easily.

Regarding networks, anyone capable of running a band with more than 12 channels on the desk is capable of learning basic networking skills. I consider basic computer network knowledge a necessary skill for any tech in our business today :)
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

Helge Dr. Bentsen said:
WWB runs on almost any computer. My old Win XP machine as well, and it's not SOTA.
ULX-D will locate and "sync" to each other when networked.

What you could do, like one company I freelance for, is to use a cheap laptop with WWB and other necessary audio apps and send it along with the wireless racks on those jobs where you need multiple units and wish to coordinate them easily.

Regarding networks, anyone capable of running a band with more than 12 channels on the desk is capable of learning basic networking skills. I consider basic computer network knowledge a necessary skill for any tech in our business today :)
Click to expand...

Not disagreeing about WWB being a great tool, and it will be used. I would probably need a few of those cheapo laptops to cover all eventualities and situations as we do a lot of small gigs with gear spread out and separated into small packages.

And even if easy on paper, most people know how things sometimes works out when Windoze eats a driver for lunch or whatever. There's a reason even engineering firms have separate people to maintain their laptops.

Techs come in many variations. I'm sure there are many out there that have mixed on just about all the big consoles, but have never had the patience or felt the need to use Studio Manager, for instance.

My company's gear is often used by people who might not have the computer skills that you have acquired sys-teching for years and years, but they are still fully capable of performing the tasks they are asked to perform. In fact, it's been my experience that the typical "soundguy" prefers a hardware solution.
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

kristianjohnsen said:
Not disagreeing about WWB being a great tool, and it will be used. I would probably need a few of those cheapo laptops to cover all eventualities and situations as we do a lot of small gigs with gear spread out and separated into small packages.

And even if easy on paper, most people know how things sometimes works out when Windoze eats a driver for lunch or whatever. There's a reason even engineering firms have separate people to maintain their laptops.

Techs come in many variations. I'm sure there are many out there that have mixed on just about all the big consoles, but have never had the patience or felt the need to use Studio Manager, for instance.

My company's gear is often used by people who might not have the computer skills that you have acquired sys-teching for years and years, but they are still fully capable of performing the tasks they are asked to perform. In fact, it's been my experience that the typical "soundguy" prefers a hardware solution.
Click to expand...

Not sure what the "refurbished, off-lease" computer business is like in Norway but Lenovo and Dell laptops with a fresh install of Win7 come in around US$225. That's fairly low overhead for a Windoze machine with a stable OS. Putting WWB, System Architect, EASE Focus, JBL's LAC2 and some other system-related stuff on it and sending it along on gigs means my crew have the tools they need.

I understand your situation about dry hire, though. Walking customers through wireless mic setup over the phone in a real pain.
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

I'm looking for a rackmount gigabit switch with PoE and ethercon connectors.

And wireless access points that work with PoE and have ethercon.


Do these exist?
 
Re: Networking wireless receivers and transmitters (control data only, no digital aud

James Drake said:
I'm looking for a rackmount gigabit switch with PoE and ethercon connectors.

And wireless access points that work with PoE and have ethercon.


Do these exist?
Click to expand...

Most of the Ethercon gear I've seen simply a repackaged off-the-shelf switch (The rackmount TMB stuf falls into this category), so you may be better off using a standard switch and adding a patch panel.

ProPlex GBS GigaBit Ethernet Switches - TMB Production Supplies & Services Worldwide
 
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