New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

I guess I shouldn't have used the word "debate"! I was unaware that there was a negative connotation to the word in reference to forum discussions.

John Roberts said:
Moving faders are just the physical manifestation of WYSIWYG in console automation.

The early motorized faders were something like $375 each (from P&G)... And big dog consoles still used them.

Over the years the prices has been cut to around $10 or so (? IIRC) from Alps.

Behringer rolled his own because even $300+ at raw material BOM level makes the faders a serious nut to deal with when hitting a value price point.

It will take time to determine wether Behringer's DIY motor faders stand the test of time, but so far so good (I think). Even if they are less robust, if they are cheap and easy to replace it could still be OK. Over time any weak links can get refined.

The SL looks like a bridge product to ease analog guys into the world of digital consoles. That is not a secure long term position in the marketplace. As digital console features become more in demand and entry price points for full featured digital consoles drop.


Debate happens, but arguing about peoples behavior on the internet is colossal waste of time... man up, and or ignore. I figure a lot of people must be ignoring me since I find myself repeating the same answers over and over... :)

JR
Click to expand...

I agree.

I wasn't aware of the cost of early motorized faders though. Interesting. Thanks. You frequently post very useful information .... well, at least I find it so.

Uli replied to me in another forum answering my questions about the long term robustness of the faders (which was my main concern as you point out). He stated they test the X32 faders to 300,000 operations while the MIDAS faders get 1,000,000 operations.

Maybe this is part of the reason Presonus hasn't moved to motorized faders. If they are forced to use off-the-shelf faders, it may be the cost is prohibitive. Does anyone know of a Presonus product that has motorized faders today?

Also, as an aside, are the modern fader motors then stepper motors? Also, is their positive position feedback indication on the faders as well?

@Jay,
Given the information from other posts in other threads, I think this poster has made more negative posts about this piece of equipment in this thread than he has mixed complete shows on it.

This is almost starting to sound like an employee of a company trashing any post about a competitors product.
Click to expand...

You are correct. I have posted more times in this thread than I have mixed shows on the SL. Am I violating some obscure forum rule that I am unaware of?

No, I don't design mixers or any other musical equipment. I design vehicle test systems for manufacturing and service. I don't have a dog in this race.

Interesting that you should say this though, because when the X32 was introduced, it was Presonus that put out a propaganda paper outlining why the SL was better than the X32. I do distinctly remember the form rumbles about that paper.

@Mark,
The point of moving faders on ANY console was always 'scenes'. In fact the word scene is a big clue to their original intended use.
Click to expand...

Lighting? If so, again, very interesting.
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

No they don't use stepper motors, especially the inexpensive motor-faders. They typically use basic forward/backwards DC permanent magnet motors. A linear resistive fader element is connected across a DC supply and the fader wiper returns a fractional DC voltage that represents it's positional information. Pretty simple basic positional servo where you tell the motor to run until you get to the destination wiper voltage, while actually the software is tuned to model inertia and ballistics of the moving fader so it doesn't over-shoot, under-shoot, or hunt around...

Not rocket science. Harder part is making it survive mechanically under the abuse and conditions it's likely to get exposed to. Hint it isn't likely to wear out from 300,000 cycles of simple up/down fader moves. More like several spilled beers and peanut shells trashing the drive belt. But like i said if they are cheap and easy to replace, that'll work too.

The 300k vs 1M Midas comparison seems exactly what the customers would expect. Who knows maybe it's true? Not a precise science to predict actual in use life, while real pot manufacturers do actually spec normal controls like pots and switches that way. And it's not big deal to make a fader sit there and ramp for a week or so...

JR
 
Top Bottom