New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Dick Rees said:
The SLive, while it can be used for some live sound situations, was designed for and released as an integrated recording/DAW system and is great for that.
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Huh? Whatever gave you THAT idéa?!

It has never been (and still isn't) an integrated recording/daw system. The only thing it does is to act as a fancy soundcard with multiple inputs. No special features...

You can't even loopback the unprocessed audio from your daw and get a multi channel return with printed fat-processing. You can also forget about automation of any kind. You can't even do a scene recall from your daw (unless you have the 16.0.2).

The only way to get multiple outputs is to reroute input channels to the auxes and busses on the actual console or via vsl. Not via a daw.

There is no option to control and/or configure the console via a daw or similar or the other way around. Not even using their own inhouse developed daw and recording programs, even though this has been requested multiple times throughout the years.

Even all new features that has been implemented and all new stuff coming to the ai-series are live sound oriented. Most of their marketing stuff is targeted live sound.

The console even provides for direct outputs so that you can record using an external device for live use.

Or, did I miss any vital thing that have escaped me?
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Dick Rees said:
PreSonus Studio One - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an integral part of the comprehensive SLive/Capture system. A nice little family of stuff designed and marketed to work together.
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...and I raise you with
The StudioLive 16.4.2 is a great choice for those who want to mix smaller shows and worship services, and it's a great choice for small club systems, portable churches, small bands, corporate applications, educational institutions, and anywhere you want a rack-mount mixer. It's the perfect hardware core for a project studio.
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I own and use both studio-one pro and the sl24.

Both pieces work really well as standalone products but they do not integrate. Even the x32 integrates better with studio-one because of the mackie control protocol!

From the studio-one point of view the studiolives are only an asio/wdm multi channel audio interface and nothing more.

The studiolive has 'always' been markeded as a live console with recording capabilities - Not the other way around.
 
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Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

I have two Presonus mixers - the 24 and the small 16 (12).
Personally, I think they screwed the pooch by passing on the moving faders - yeah there's workarounds (fader locate) but in a digital world where every digital mixer has moving faders, and folks that are looking for that feature when comparing mixers, they missed badly.
If cost was the issue (and it is a big one) put out two mixers - one with moving faders, and one budget mixer without. The design cost is once.

Part of their thinking is the studio users - locked into their PC - don't need no stinkin' faders, let alone moving ones. It seems Presonus has been (and continues to be) more studio centric.

If they wish to compete with the likes of Behringer, they better start listening to the live users.
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

frank kayser said:
I have two Presonus mixers - the 24 and the small 16 (12).
Personally, I think they screwed the pooch by passing on the moving faders - yeah there's workarounds (fader locate) but in a digital world where every digital mixer has moving faders, and folks that are looking for that feature when comparing mixers, they missed badly.
If cost was the issue (and it is a big one) put out two mixers - one with moving faders, and one budget mixer without. The design cost is once.

Part of their thinking is the studio users - locked into their PC - don't need no stinkin' faders, let alone moving ones. It seems Presonus has been (and continues to be) more studio centric.

If they wish to compete with the likes of Behringer, they better start listening to the live users.
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Frank, I think it is going to take more than flying faders to bring the SL series up to par with its competition.

I think that DL1608 and X32 Rack is going to undercut it in price and features for the weekend warrior band outfits. The Expression Si, X32 Producer, and Qu-16 are going to eat its lunch in the digital mixer for small productions. No one who does any serious recording at all is going to consider a 44/48Khz recorder, so it is out there as well.

If they could price it at the reduced price the current 16.4.2 is priced (~$1500.00), it could at least compete with the new A&H MixWiz 4 ($1000.00).
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

I think you guys who seem to be so concerned with the Presonus marketing strategy can relax. They are going to sell plenty of them.
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Chuck Simon said:
I think you guys who seem to be so concerned with the Presonus marketing strategy can relax. They are going to sell plenty of them.
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Maybe.

If someone asked you for a recommendation on a mixer, would you recommend an AI vs one of the competitors?
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Scott Bolt said:
Maybe.

If someone asked you for a recommendation on a mixer, would you recommend an AI vs one of the competitors?
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Unlike you, I would limit my recommendations to equipment I have actually used in real world conditions. And my suggestions woud be based on the actual usage and needs of the individual situation, not on "bells and whistles".
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Chuck Simon said:
Unlike you, I would limit my recommendations to equipment I have actually used in real world conditions.
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OK ladies, handbags at dawn, choose your seconds!

Generally (and not directed at the person I've quoted): It is pretty clear that there are some disappointed Presonus fans out there that really wanted to see a product that seemed more competitive and would be able to inspire more enthusiasm. As it is, the only response seems to be "Will the non converts please get the f... out of the church and stop bothering us!"
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Per Søvik said:
OK ladies, handbags at dawn, choose your seconds!

Generally (and not directed at the person I've quoted): It is pretty clear that there are some disappointed Presonus fans out there that really wanted to see a product that seemed more competitive and would be able to inspire more enthusiasm. As it is, the only response seems to be "Will the non converts please get the f... out of the church and stop bothering us!"
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I have used an SL in the flesh, not remote with an ipad. I found it counter-intuitive from both an analog users or other digital mixer perspective. I give it a thumbs-down based on actual use. The lack of features I desire is an unrelated matter.

That said, if anyone else likes these products they should purchase and use them. I don't care what anyone else mixes their show with... point me to the outputs for left, right, subs and front fills and I'll have you patched. :)

FWIW, of the various 'value' mixers that have come through with artists, at FOH I've seen 2 X32, 2 Soundcraft digital, an LS9-32. In band-carried IEM racks I've seen LS9, 01v96x, a DM1000 or 2, a bunch of analog MixWiz, and 2 StudioLive.

For clients: whatever you like, if your tour is long enough I'll buy whatever you want....
 
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Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Tim...

I think you nailed it. The SLive is neither an analog NOR a digital board. I call it "digi-log". I hope you won't feel put-upon if I suggest that approaching it from either direction with preconceptions of digital/analog might well cloud your vision.

It is what it is and a cursory reading of the explanation of the "FatChannel" should be enough for anyone to get a mix going. It took me about 5 minutes and I'm certainly not the brightest star in the heavens. You may well have been crippled by "too much experience"...
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Tim McCulloch said:
FWIW, of the various 'value' mixers that have come through with artists, at FOH I've seen 2 X32, 2 Soundcraft digital, an LS9-32. In band-carried IEM racks I've seen LS9, 01v96x, a DM1000 or 2, a bunch of analog MixWiz, and 2 StudioLive.
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I have observed a couple of guys on the definite A-list here in Norway that uses the StudioLive, both of them produce stellar mixes with great sonics for serious national/semi international artists. None of them have chosen the StudioLive because it is a budget mixer, but because they like it.
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

I like the idea of the Studiolive. Straight forward and all the basic stuff to get it done. I just wish the price would reflect what the product has to offer. With the other offerings that have moving faders and stage box potential they should come in at a lower price.
If the SL 24.4.2 was in the $1700/$1600 range it would be a good deal. At around $2500 it is just not in the same market area anymore compared to other product offerings.
A local band has one and it seems to work good.
Again a good product just to me it seems over priced.

Douglas R. Allen
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Per Søvik said:
OK ladies, handbags at dawn, choose your seconds!QUOTE]

Sorry, I'm just tired of all the rambling advice and opinions from "pseudo experts". I don't want this place to turn into Harmony Central.

And you better watch it with the "handbag" comments, I'll smack you with my bra!
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Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Douglas R. Allen said:
I like the idea of the Studiolive. Straight forward and all the basic stuff to get it done. I just wish the price would reflect what the product has to offer. With the other offerings that have moving faders and stage box potential they should come in at a lower price.
If the SL 24.4.2 was in the $1700/$1600 range it would be a good deal. At around $2500 it is just not in the same market area anymore compared to other product offerings.
A local band has one and it seems to work good.
Again a good product just to me it seems over priced.

Douglas R. Allen
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Doug,

I completely agree. The price is going to have to come down to reflect the relative value in the market.

Unlike you, I would limit my recommendations to equipment I have actually used in real world conditions. And my suggestions woud be based on the actual usage and needs of the individual situation, not on "bells and whistles".
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Chuck,

Did I wrong you in a previous life?

I have used the board in a real world situation. So now does that make me a REAL expert?

Look, no one is going to stop you from running out and buying the new AI mixer OK.

You never answered my question. If someone was asking for your EXPERT advice, would you recommend one of the new SL boards? If so, on what basis?
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Dick Rees said:
Tim...

I think you nailed it. The SLive is neither an analog NOR a digital board. I call it "digi-log". I hope you won't feel put-upon if I suggest that approaching it from either direction with preconceptions of digital/analog might well cloud your vision.

It is what it is and a cursory reading of the explanation of the "FatChannel" should be enough for anyone to get a mix going. It took me about 5 minutes and I'm certainly not the brightest star in the heavens. You may well have been crippled by "too much experience"...
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Dick,

A few of years ago was when I first was introduced to the board. The one thing I came away with was that this board was very easy to use and understand. When someone comes up to my MixWiz rig, they have no way of knowing which gates and compressors are wired to which channels. They can't tell which aux I am using for reverb, etc, etc. The original board was ahead of its time, which is reflected in the huge sales the product received.

Would you also consider the Expression Si and Qu-16 "Digi-Log"?
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

The real question is when the SL boards would be a better choice than one of the other low cost digital offerings now on the market. Quality is pretty similar across the major players, so now it comes down to which is a better solution. I can't think of any features that the SL has that the others don't, and the pricing doesn't reflect that the board has less to offer.

The only time I could see the SL as a good choice is for a user that gets easily confused by more features in a board. It's harder to totally muck up the SL with incorrect routing, etc., but other than that, where's the advantage? The 'fat channel' is actually less intuitive than on the other boards, since the functions of the channel change depending on the mode you're in, and the labeling can be quite confusing.

If the price of the SL came in below the other offerings, then it would have a place in the market, but since the price is as high or higher, I can't see where I'd recommend it.
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Scott Bolt said:
Dick,

A few of years ago was when I first was introduced to the board. The one thing I came away with was that this board was very easy to use and understand. When someone comes up to my MixWiz rig, they have no way of knowing which gates and compressors are wired to which channels. They can't tell which aux I am using for reverb, etc, etc. The original board was ahead of its time, which is reflected in the huge sales the product received.

Would you also consider the Expression Si and Qu-16 "Digi-Log"?
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If they can't tell what is wired to what there are two possibilities: the system owner/engineer has failed to label the device (gee, artist's tape and a Sharpie® are sooo hard to acquire) or the operator is likely incompetent... if he/she can't follow the insert cable from mixer to device he/she probably has no idea what they're doing with said device.

Both say "fail" in large, red letters.
 
Re: New line of StudioLive AI mixers announced.

Tim McCulloch said:
If they can't tell what is wired to what there are two possibilities: the system owner/engineer has failed to label the device (gee, artist's tape and a Sharpie® are sooo hard to acquire) or the operator is likely incompetent... if he/she can't follow the insert cable from mixer to device he/she probably has no idea what they're doing with said device.

Both say "fail" in large, red letters.
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Another illustration of why SB made my Iggy List. Why he keeps putting up posts addressed directly to me is a mystery. I only see them when other people quote them.
 
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