New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
- Thread starter TJ Cornish
- Start date
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
Lively debate will ensue. *Very* lively, but none of it new.
Lively debate will ensue. *Very* lively, but none of it new.
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
Nobody expected competitors to just give this market segment to Behringer without a fight. Behringer deserves kudos for leaning out the window first and offering that much mixer for that low price point, hoping that sales volumes would follow and support that low price point. They did, so now that the business proposition has been proved to work, others will follow.
JR
Nobody expected competitors to just give this market segment to Behringer without a fight. Behringer deserves kudos for leaning out the window first and offering that much mixer for that low price point, hoping that sales volumes would follow and support that low price point. They did, so now that the business proposition has been proved to work, others will follow.
JR
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
Looks like they've started shipping.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TF5-32
Hopefully the MonitorMix app will come out soon, I'm interested to see what that's like.
Looks like they've started shipping.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TF5-32
Hopefully the MonitorMix app will come out soon, I'm interested to see what that's like.
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
Guitar Center already has TF1 on display. Wondering if anyone had a chance to test them in a shop, are there any noticeable differences in sound vs. QL series?
Guitar Center already has TF1 on display. Wondering if anyone had a chance to test them in a shop, are there any noticeable differences in sound vs. QL series?
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
Kind of what Mackie did with DL1608, it was first faderless iPad mixer for a while (I still use it for small jobs), but now everyone is catching up.
Seems like it's time for X32 v.2 or whatever, mid-life upgrade. Uli gotta keep the standards high! TF is really nice made desk, a pleasure to see and touch. Strong competitor to X32, to say the least.
Kind of what Mackie did with DL1608, it was first faderless iPad mixer for a while (I still use it for small jobs), but now everyone is catching up.
Seems like it's time for X32 v.2 or whatever, mid-life upgrade. Uli gotta keep the standards high! TF is really nice made desk, a pleasure to see and touch. Strong competitor to X32, to say the least.
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
Actully, the Allen & Heath iDR was the first fadeless REAL mixer, if you want to get nit-picky.
Actully, the Allen & Heath iDR was the first fadeless REAL mixer, if you want to get nit-picky.
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
Why doesn't the DSP5D count?
Sent from my iPhone
Why doesn't the DSP5D count?
Sent from my iPhone
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
IIRC Peavey made a fader-less mixer back in the '90s that was all midi controlled... Being Peavey probably not considered "real", and with Peavey's "guess what we sell" marketing, few customers even knew we sold them.
JR
IIRC Peavey made a fader-less mixer back in the '90s that was all midi controlled... Being Peavey probably not considered "real", and with Peavey's "guess what we sell" marketing, few customers even knew we sold them.
JR
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
MOTU made one as well called the Midi Mixer 7s although it's functionality was pretty limited. All 1/4" and RCA. 7 stereo inputs. It was intended mostly as a keyboard mixer. But it did have aux sends and EQ and it was entirely remote controlled via MIDI.
I actually know where two of these are right now. I had them at the church i used to work at, but i had a devil of a time finding Power Supplies for them...
MOTU made one as well called the Midi Mixer 7s although it's functionality was pretty limited. All 1/4" and RCA. 7 stereo inputs. It was intended mostly as a keyboard mixer. But it did have aux sends and EQ and it was entirely remote controlled via MIDI.
I actually know where two of these are right now. I had them at the church i used to work at, but i had a devil of a time finding Power Supplies for them...
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
Well, to be precise, all these "faderless mixers" mentioned above were meant to be controlled by something else with physical faders and knobs, iPad and laptop control, if any, was a secondary option: iLive control surface for iDr, whole PM5D console for DSP5D, CS1D surface for PM1D rack, etc. From this point of view any desk that has mixing engine unit separated from control surface (as FOH rack or built into stagebox), can be called a faderless mixer. Soundcraft Vi 2/4/6 (not the 3K/5K/7K), Studer Vista, the entire Avid Venue line (except SC48), MIDAS Pro-3/6/9/X, to name a few.
Where Mackie DL1608 was first is being iPad-only mixer, designed for iPad as primary controller, and has no other means of control besides iPad.
Seems like all this "iPad mixing" hype is going down and trend will be towards a remote compact and lightweight control surface with physical faders, buttons and knobs and CAT5 or Wi-Fi connection to a mix engine/stagebox. Presonus CS18 is the first step in that direction (control surface with faders for RM-series rack mixers). Wish if only they used Wi-Fi instead of CAT5.
Ideally it should be some common standard for such control surface, kind of universal USB or Wi-Fi control surface that plugs into iPad/tablet or touch-screen PC, with some standard set of faders and knobs and templates for different mixers. Kind of what Novation does with Automap, where you can load templates for certain DAWs into USB keyboard controller. Some kind of protocol like HUI or Mackie Control for DAWs. I won't be surprised if Mackie will come up with something like that based on their MCU Pro DAW controller, optimized for live sound. Or AVID will add Wi-Fi to their S3 controller.
Well, to be precise, all these "faderless mixers" mentioned above were meant to be controlled by something else with physical faders and knobs, iPad and laptop control, if any, was a secondary option: iLive control surface for iDr, whole PM5D console for DSP5D, CS1D surface for PM1D rack, etc. From this point of view any desk that has mixing engine unit separated from control surface (as FOH rack or built into stagebox), can be called a faderless mixer. Soundcraft Vi 2/4/6 (not the 3K/5K/7K), Studer Vista, the entire Avid Venue line (except SC48), MIDAS Pro-3/6/9/X, to name a few.
Where Mackie DL1608 was first is being iPad-only mixer, designed for iPad as primary controller, and has no other means of control besides iPad.
Seems like all this "iPad mixing" hype is going down and trend will be towards a remote compact and lightweight control surface with physical faders, buttons and knobs and CAT5 or Wi-Fi connection to a mix engine/stagebox. Presonus CS18 is the first step in that direction (control surface with faders for RM-series rack mixers). Wish if only they used Wi-Fi instead of CAT5.
Ideally it should be some common standard for such control surface, kind of universal USB or Wi-Fi control surface that plugs into iPad/tablet or touch-screen PC, with some standard set of faders and knobs and templates for different mixers. Kind of what Novation does with Automap, where you can load templates for certain DAWs into USB keyboard controller. Some kind of protocol like HUI or Mackie Control for DAWs. I won't be surprised if Mackie will come up with something like that based on their MCU Pro DAW controller, optimized for live sound. Or AVID will add Wi-Fi to their S3 controller.
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Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
...dave
I'm not as sure tablet mixing is passe' as of yet but fully agree there is a future for a remote physical-control interface with really good visualizations. Likewise agree that -- following on Behringer's foresight to open up the X32 control protocol -- we will come to see the control surface as a separate product from the stage-side pre-amp/signal-processing box.
...dave
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
I don't think protocol is a problem. I've been using the X32 remote mixing app for android developed by some kid in Germany, free app, forgot the name. It was long before the official Behringer android app became available (actually worked better than official iPad app, year and a half ago). At that time Behringer (folks in Vegas) were saying that they know about, but not officially endorse it. It means whatever data is needed for programming was available to public.
I don't think protocol is a problem. I've been using the X32 remote mixing app for android developed by some kid in Germany, free app, forgot the name. It was long before the official Behringer android app became available (actually worked better than official iPad app, year and a half ago). At that time Behringer (folks in Vegas) were saying that they know about, but not officially endorse it. It means whatever data is needed for programming was available to public.
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
..dave
David Schumann
Mixing Station
Same thing -- they just finally officially "recognized" it. Rumor is David is at least somewhat supported by B now.
Agreed -- and still does! The scrolling RTA showing both the raw and compressed signals behind the compressor display is very interesting and helpful -- much more than the simple moving diamond indicator on the physical console.
Yup.
..dave
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
This is not really true with the Peavey MediaMatrix Mainframe and Miniframe DSP engines that were brought out in the early 1990's. They used computers as the user interface exclusively though they also interfaced well with 3rd party control systems to allow "outsiders" to manipulate controls specified by the designer's configuration.
Anyway, the point is, some of us have been doing dedicated computer control of audio systems for a LONG time. Long enough that I find it pretty mundane and I actually prefer having real faders and knobs under my fingers, regardless if they are on a digital surface or (gasp!) analog.
This is not really true with the Peavey MediaMatrix Mainframe and Miniframe DSP engines that were brought out in the early 1990's. They used computers as the user interface exclusively though they also interfaced well with 3rd party control systems to allow "outsiders" to manipulate controls specified by the designer's configuration.
Anyway, the point is, some of us have been doing dedicated computer control of audio systems for a LONG time. Long enough that I find it pretty mundane and I actually prefer having real faders and knobs under my fingers, regardless if they are on a digital surface or (gasp!) analog.
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
Do you think Behringer lowering the X32 down to $2,299, has anything to do with all the new mixers being released by Yamaha, Soundcraft, etc? Gonna be hard to compete with $2,299. The TF5 is $3,499, no stage box, and not much control on the control surface. It will be interesting to see how the TF5 really compares to the X32.
Do you think Behringer lowering the X32 down to $2,299, has anything to do with all the new mixers being released by Yamaha, Soundcraft, etc? Gonna be hard to compete with $2,299. The TF5 is $3,499, no stage box, and not much control on the control surface. It will be interesting to see how the TF5 really compares to the X32.
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
Uh, yes. Everything to do with the release, IMHO. Competitive marketing at play to be sure.
Uh, yes. Everything to do with the release, IMHO. Competitive marketing at play to be sure.
Re: New Yamaha TF series digital mixers
Shouldn't be hard to compete with Behringer's quality, at whatever price point.