Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

John Chiara said:
It's correct in the PDF.
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But I see "133 dB SPL Program" in the PDF, did they perhaps mean peak <facepalm> ? Recommended amp power rating at 400 continuous and 1600 peak is a bit weird too - what does that really mean? Oh, and looking at their response curve it looks like you'd want to cross over to the sub at about 200 Hz?
 
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Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

Ron Kimball said:
But I see "133 dB SPL Program" in the PDF, did they perhaps mean peak <facepalm> ? Recommended amp power rating at 400 continuous and 1600 peak is a bit weird too - what does that really mean? Oh, and looking at their response curve it looks like you'd want to cross over to the sub at about 200 Hz?
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Normally you have continuous/RMS/whatever long-term spec the mfr uses, then they add 3-6dB for program, and another 3dB for peak. It does seem inconsistent that the PDF shows 127dB to 133dB continuous to "program" - 6dB, and yet the continuous to peak amplifier power is also 6dB.

As to the crossover - it all depends on what you consider nominal. The dB scale is 5dB per division rather than 10dB that is sometimes used which helps, but there's no doubt that the subs need to go at least to 120Hz, and possibly higher. The good news, I guess, is that the TH118 is extremely efficient in that band.
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

TJ Cornish said:
As to the crossover - it all depends on what you consider nominal. The dB scale is 5dB per division rather than 10dB that is sometimes used which helps, but there's no doubt that the subs need to go at least to 120Hz, and possibly higher. The good news, I guess, is that the TH118 is extremely efficient in that band.
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With a small 120Hz-ish boost (based on impedance and Ivan's many posts on this for the SM80), along with under-lapping electrical crossovers for subwoofer haystacking, it's a non-issue. Sounds like a rockin' little rig, I would just change the TH118 to a DBH218.
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

Caleb Dick said:
With a small 120Hz-ish boost (based on impedance and Ivan's many posts on this for the SM80), along with under-lapping electrical crossovers for subwoofer haystacking, it's a non-issue. Sounds like a rockin' little rig, I would just change the TH118 to a DBH218.
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With the DBH218, it would be a "quick and dirty bar rig where cost and weight are no object", but indeed would be a top of the line rig that could cover most indoor and outdoor events up to several hundred people for those who could afford them and could transport and set up some 280 lb.-odd subs. I agree with Caleb that the SM80, with the correct sub usage and processing, is not deficient in low mids, unless you just want some "super bark" in that range.

I am intrigued by the PreSonus mid-hi boxes proposed by Bennett for his prototype system. I realized that these are basically a powered version of the something like the JTR Triple 8, which are some sweet-sounding boxes.
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

Rick Powell said:
With the DBH218, it would be a "quick and dirty bar rig where cost and weight are no object", but indeed would be a top of the line rig that could cover most indoor and outdoor events up to several hundred people for those who could afford them and could transport and set up some 280 lb.-odd subs. I agree with Caleb that the SM80, with the correct sub usage and processing, is not deficient in low mids, unless you just want some "super bark" in that range.

I am intrigued by the PreSonus mid-hi boxes proposed by Bennett for his prototype system. I realized that these are basically a powered version of the something like the JTR Triple 8, which are some sweet-sounding boxes.
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Are the Presonus boxes out there yet? I would love to hear a comparison with the Danley SM/OS 80 boxes. Overall real world output is the question I have.
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

Another goal I have is the easy ability to raise the speaker up high...7-8'+ and be able to tilt it. The Danley OS80 has the built in bracket. Looking at the AI 328 I might have to invest in real speaker tilters...($500) Also have had plastic pole cups break when tilted as the sides of them are very thin.
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

My only concerns with the Danley OS80 is that it looks a bit weird and most folks wouldn't recognise the brand. Hereabouts a "firewood grade" JBL JRX system would be easier to "sell" than a Danley system at the bar level :?~:-?~:???:. A PRX system both doesn't suck and is an easy sell :)~:-)~:smile:.
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

Ron Kimball said:
My only concerns with the Danley OS80 is that it looks a bit weird and most folks wouldn't recognise the brand. Hereabouts a "firewood grade" JBL JRX system would be easier to "sell" than a Danley system at the bar level :?~:-?~:???:. A PRX system both doesn't suck and is an easy sell :)~:-)~:smile:.
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I don't have to sell it to anyone. It would be a rig that would basically be used by me for one or two specific bands who need high production value in a compact package.
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

John Chiara said:
I don't have to sell it to anyone. It would be a rig that would basically be used by me for one or two specific bands who need high production value in a compact package.
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But for the purpose of this spreadsheet it has to be market able as well, At least thats my understanding. If I walked into a local bar here they wouldn't give two rats shits about what equipment that I provided, as long as it got loud and they sold booze better.
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

Ron Kimball said:
My only concerns with the Danley OS80 is that it looks a bit weird and most folks wouldn't recognise the brand. Hereabouts a "firewood grade" JBL JRX system would be easier to "sell" than a Danley system at the bar level :?~:-?~:???:. A PRX system both doesn't suck and is an easy sell :)~:-)~:smile:.
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It's not just at the bar/club level, Ron. I'm very supportive of Danley and other "non-3 letter acronym" companies but getting band engineers to accept something they're not familiar with is a very tough sell. Since much of our work comes from the entertainment side, we have to have what Persons Who Decide want to use (or at least will accept). If they've not heard of a brand or model, positively reviewed by another Person Who Decides at the same level of employment, they're unlikely to accept something new or different regardless of the product merits. It sucks but that's the way it is. Product choice is a commercial decision based on what will spend the least amount of time on your shop floor and how much income it can realize.

A few years ago we provided for 2 of 4 stages at an acoustic music festival. One of the acts had a BE that took exception to the Peavey mixer (came from the other vendor) provided for his use. He pointed to lightning bolt logo and said "that should say 'Midas'." The clever and resourceful console owner took a piece of white tape, covered the logo and wrote "Midas" with a Sharpie. I wonder if it sounded better, worse, or unchanged? Maybe with an Analogue Werd Klok? :twisted:

And calling JRX firewood is a disservice to real trees everywhere....
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

Tim McCulloch said:
One of the acts had a BE that took exception to the Peavey mixer (came from the other vendor) provided for his use. He pointed to lightning bolt logo and said "that should say 'Midas'." The clever and resourceful console owner took a piece of white tape, covered the logo and wrote "Midas" with a Sharpie. I wonder if it sounded better, worse, or unchanged?
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That's OK. The sound provider a couple rungs up from me that bought my Behringer DDX3216 just gaffed over the "B" word and instantly had a great 32 channel mixer for cheap :D~:-D~:grin:.
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

I used the previous version to fill many holes in my rig, good to see it continuing!

My thoughts:

Behringer X32 Compact is definitely the desk to get. 16+6/8+6 stock, expandable by 16/18 with a cheap stage box. I had a look at the sheet and I'm pretty sure that an S16, 50m cat5e shielded cable with ethercons and a rack case is cheaper than the multicore and cover specified. Plus when you add a second one you can be rid of a drop box or two. Doing 16 channels on ethernet or 32 side of stage would be perfect for this kind of rig.

Yamaha DSR112's are the perfect monitor choice.

I'm a QSC fan, so I would go KW181's with the KW122, KW152 or KW153 as tops. The JBL PRX700 series is also good. Personal preference here.

Great to see this still alive!
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

Consider the Soundcraft Expression 1 for this.
Can be had cheaper than the X-32 made by Voldemort....uhhh Behringer
Graphics on all outputs easily accessible. Easier to use for a first timer.
Can do 32 channels w/one digi snake, and double that if you fully expand
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

Steve Hurt said:
Consider the Soundcraft Expression 1 for this.
Can be had cheaper than the X-32 made by Voldemort....uhhh Behringer
Graphics on all outputs easily accessible. Easier to use for a first timer.
Can do 32 channels w/one digi snake, and double that if you fully expand
Click to expand...

Steve,
What is needed to record multitrack? Are there DCA's?
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

Got to go to the performer to get VCA's (I went with the performer and it is sweet)

I believe if you get the Madi card, it can take 32 channels from a digi snake and send up to 64 channels to a recorder at the same time
I'm not positive on this yet, haven't really looked into it to be honest. Multi track isn't something I get asked about often.

The Expression is an easy to use, good sounding digital board. I think its easier to use than the Presonus or X32
It definitely has more features and better effects than the Presonus
It's not built by Voldemort which matters to more people than you might think
And its cheap. Costs $1999 anywhere (less if you shop) for the Expression 1. (2499 for the 2, 2999 for the 3)
Just think it qualifies as a good pick for a "Quick and Dirty Bar Rig"

Also, the Expression 1 is rack mountable which doesn't hurt either.
 
Steve Hurt said:
Got to go to the performer to get VCA's (I went with the performer and it is sweet)

I believe if you get the Madi card, it can take 32 channels from a digi snake and send up to 64 channels to a recorder at the same time
I'm not positive on this yet, haven't really looked into it to be honest. Multi track isn't something I get asked about often.

The Expression is an easy to use, good sounding digital board. I think its easier to use than the Presonus or X32
It definitely has more features and better effects than the Presonus
It's not built by Voldemort which matters to more people than you might think
And its cheap. Costs $1999 anywhere (less if you shop) for the Expression 1. (2499 for the 2, 2999 for the 3)
Just think it qualifies as a good pick for a "Quick and Dirty Bar Rig"

Also, the Expression 1 is rack mountable which doesn't hurt either.
Click to expand...

You need two separate madi cards to record and run stagebox, so the expression with only 1 card slot cannot do it. The performer can though.

Sent from my SCH-I545
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

The dual Madi card has a 64 channel input and a 64 channel output.
I "assume" you could input into the board from a digital snake, and output into a recorder at the same time
I may be wrong though. I'm going to ask and find out.
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

The expression requires a MADI card and then a MADI interface to do a multitrack recording, if you only have the simpler MADi card, you then require a MADI splitter. Once the Dante card comes out it will be simpler, but still an expense to do something that most others do out of the box. And at this level, multitracking it very handy for bands that would buy them and small operators to make a little more cash.

They should have really put USB on the console itself.

The Si is an option, but IMO the X32 Compact is the pick of the bunch: 40 channels, cheap stage boxes, included USB interface, upcoming expansion cards, DCA's and the other members of the X32 family.
 
Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig 2014 Edition

Steve Hurt said:
Consider the Soundcraft Expression 1 for this.
Can be had cheaper than the X-32 made by Voldemort....uhhh Behringer
Graphics on all outputs easily accessible. Easier to use for a first timer.
Can do 32 channels w/one digi snake, and double that if you fully expand
Click to expand...

I am totally blown away that being cheaper than the X-32 is seen as a qualification!
 
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