Speaking of Varsity

Re: Speaking of Varsity

Hi Frank-

Glad you've had good experiences with our rigs. Making it all work the way you need it to is my job and it's a pleasure to work with you.

Thanks for your support, and welcome to Sound Forums.

Tim Mc
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

A couple of random thoughts...

Most of the guys out there mixing bands couldn't mix fucking paint. They don't understand the art or the technology. I've seen it at the biggest of big and the smallest of small. Some of the guys are pristine, real works of art. Most though are tone deaf hacks that are more concerned with a crushing "lead kick" than making sure I can hear the vocal and melody. That is if the band they mix have any sense of vocal or melody. No one ever walks away humming the kick drum.

If your act's agent is shoveling you into B market shitty radio fest gigs you get what you get. If you're talking about a good radio fest gig (if there is such a thing) like HFFestival or the old K-Rock Weenie Roast, those are real gigs with real rigs though still a pain in the ass. If your band is good and doing the numbers they don't need to do those shitty gigs unless they need to fill some time between the equally crappy House of Blues gigs. Take your control packages and plug into the stack de jour and it is what it is. Put your big girl panties on and deal with it. If your act is really big time you wouldn't be doing those shitty gigs. Those gigs are to break an act, not to sustain them.

You don't learn to mix talking about it on forums. You learn by doing it. You can exchange ideas but mixing is the last creative process before the art gets to the audience. What cracks me up is when some posts "this is what I do with the kick, guitar, vocal, whatever without regard to listening to the source. Hows about listening to the motherfucker first? How does it work into the context of the art? How does the artist want the work conveyed? Talking about it without being able to listen to it is pointless.

And Justice, Riedel is what you want for matrix com. Just because I have a protractor in my pocket doesn't mean I can' mix your asses under the table. You need both, you need arts and smarts.
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

I'm going with no on this Dave. "You get what you get" keeps the regional sound companies regional. If you can't, at the very least, honor what you have sent out in paper, you deserve to have guys, "who can't mix paint", burn your shit to the ground. Being a engineer does not make you a mixer and being a mixer does not make you an engineer. They are 2 varied skillsets and need to be thought of as such. I have had the pleasure and pain of having to deal with mixers who thought that playing with the pa drives was how they fixed thier mixes. And some other idiotic approaches to things such as basic system tuning, time alignment, fill systems, the list goes on. Just because you are a band mixer doesn't mean you know anything about the PA in front of you. Especially at a radio festival. If the sound vendor plants some guy who has no interest in the event or the idea that he should be helping the younger guys get a better result, he should promptly kill himself and let someone who will take over.
On the other hand, there are a few system engineers who really are not good mixers. But are fantastic system engineers. It's a fine line between the two disciplines. There are few guys who are good at both. And mixing someone under the table? Really? This is an artform. You are bringing an artists vision to fruition, not facing a showdown at the OK corral. Relax. Have fun.
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

Francesco Sgambellone said:
If the sound vendor plants some guy who has no interest in the event or the idea that he should be helping the younger guys get a better result, he should promptly kill himself and let someone who will take over.
Click to expand...

That's some funny shit right there. You aren't going to change the shittyness of some of the regional PA vendors. It was that way long before you were working in this business or perhaps before you were born. So how did that burned up PA thing work out for you? Couldn't do shit about it, could you? It's a money issue. Is Sting doing those kind of gigs? Of course not. He doesn't have to. (does Vish Wadi still work for him?) You aren't blazing any new trails here Frank. Some gigs are going to be shitty and there is not a goddamn thing you or your production manager can do about them. If your act was that big and you didn't have the gear, you could spec the vendor. I've done that. A lot. If you have the juice, you can spec the vendor. If not it's the luck of the draw. And there is not dick you can do about it.
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

Actually Dave, the vendor was forced by the local site coordinator to get another system and hang it during the late afternoon. Funny enough they manged to hang almost twice as much as they brought initially and almost what was originally agreed to. I think it might have been easier to do it right the first time. It wasn't my idea but there was no way the promoter was going to pay for a burned up system. Especially when it is not what was agreed to. I don't mean to be a dick, but fair is fair. I have nothing against any sound vendor. I have no reason to. But if you aren't going to do the gig as you agreed to, you deserve what happens. Especially when you send less than helpful personel. Not only did they leave a guy in charge who didn't give a shit, he also allowed the engineers to wreck his system. How about that money spent. This isn't just from regional companies either. I have been run through the ringer with some very large companies overseas because I do not use them for regular touring when I am over there. The shitty gear is not what I am talking about. It is the level of service and civility you would come to expect at work. Because in the end, that's all it is, work. If any of these people ever worked anywhere else, they would be sacked. Luck of the draw had nothing to do with this. They said they would do one thing, they ignored all of it and did something else and then paid for it when the system melted down.
As far as this gig goes, Vish isn't here. Ian Newton is mixing monitors. Vish is with Luis Miguel.

Hey Bruce. How's things. You like that? This guy is gonna give me agita!!!
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

Dave Stevens said:
And Justice, Riedel is what you want for matrix com.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I kind of already knew that. I was just digging on Clearcom a little (we've already had a demo of the Riedel stuff here, now we have to find a time to give equal time to the Clearcom/HME boys).

This thread is turning into one hell of a gut buster though, keep it up guys and it might start to feel like the LAB soon.
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

Francesco Sgambellone said:
I can't wait to see what comes next. Before I was born as well. Nice. It didn't happen to be your system there was it? you seem easily upset my brother.
Click to expand...

If it were one of my rigs it would have been dead nuts solid. I didn't get to where I am by being a slacker. Because you are talking out of your ass, you wouldn't know would you? And I've been known to turn a knob or two. They hung a fucking PA during the gig? That's the point where the acts I've worked with load out. By all accounts, when you have to replace the PA during a gig, that's a shitty gig.

If you had a protractor in you pocket you wouldn't have to worry about the system techs, would you? You could do it yourself. I wouldn't want you to chip your nail polish having to do any manual labor...
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

Justice C. Bigler said:
Yeah, I kind of already knew that. I was just digging on Clearcom a little (we've already had a demo of the Riedel stuff here, now we have to find a time to give equal time to the Clearcom/HME boys).

This thread is turning into one hell of a gut buster though, keep it up guys and it might start to feel like the LAB soon.
Click to expand...

live-audio.com<VEG>
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

Dave, you have completely gone off the rails. You obviously have no idea what I actually do. I would hope that anyone who has actually worked with me would think more than you already do. I'm not sure if we have met before or worked together, but you seem a little sensitive about this and I have no idea why.You seem to think that defending mediocrity is a noble cause. I don't care that your rig would have been great or not. I'm relating a story about something I experienced that had nothing to do with you. Sorry if you don't like it. You are totally missing the point. Other than that, It's the last reply I'm making to you on this subject, because I'm already bored of trying to explain myself without knocking the chip off your shoulder. Grow up.
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

Francesco Sgambellone said:
Dave, you have completely gone off the rails. You obviously have no idea what I actually do. I would hope that anyone who has actually worked with me would think more than you already do. I'm not sure if we have met before or worked together, but you seem a little sensitive about this and I have no idea why.You seem to think that defending mediocrity is a noble cause. I don't care that your rig would have been great or not. I'm relating a story about something I experienced that had nothing to do with you. Sorry if you don't like it. You are totally missing the point. Other than that, It's the last reply I'm making to you on this subject, because I'm already bored of trying to explain myself without knocking the chip off your shoulder. Grow up.
Click to expand...
Sorry you had a bad day... Perhaps you could take your own advice and stop trying to make this about Dave "anvil of truth" Stevens. He is addressing this in his normal tone for such matters. Focus on the facts and not the personalities.

Attacking critics may work in national politics (for a while), but it rarely does with this group.

JR
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

Dave,

Jesus Christ, dude. You're reading an awful lot into what Frank has said here, and going after him like he's shot your dog. I don't know what he did to piss you off, but I'm not seeing it. Looks to me like he was just trying to tell a good story about a shitty day he had. Sometimes you get to walk on days like that, often times you don't, but it's never been up to me... I don't know the "inside story" of course, but it sounds like Frank was just trying to make the best of a bad situation. He's kept his cool pretty well in the face of your onslaught, too.

I know you're "face the music" Dave Stevens and all, but come on. I like it a little rough and real world too but I think Frank knows how the world turns. PM me if I'm missing something here. I got nothin' but love for you, baby.

P.S. Francesco, if you generally go by Frank you can use that as your name on this forum.
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

I have started inviting regular touring guys to the forum and hope that it catches on. Its a great idea to be able to share info this way. I really don't see any difference between the guys who have small gigs or the ones who do large tours. It's about audio. Someone farther up the chain here commented on the fact that the ones that don't know it all, shouldn't aggravate those that think they do. Lets try and help each other get better at something we all love to do. Peace.

Frank.
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

it could be interesting to get more touring guys to trade ideas. another great opportunity we have is for touring guys and company guys to understand each others needs better so that we can all deliver a better result for the fans and the artist.

p.s. all is good frank... good to see you here... oh yeah dave i would give frank a chance to talk, he is one of the best system techs and mixers out there...
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

Thanks Bruce. I am going into a couple of days of heavy lifting here. I will be back early next week. I would like to hear the common complaints though from system providers. They usually get the shitty end of the stick as Tim M. alluded to. I think that would be a good point to consider as a touring guy. See you guys next week.
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

No one is trying to stop you or Frankie from speaking. Least of all me. However, if one roll on in to give me crap, expect it back. For example saying "It didn't happen to be your system there was it?" then when I say my shit would be tight then he starts back pedaling. Sack up and support what you post. Years ago an astute gentleman (well, as gentlemanly as a coach driver can be) gave me a piece of advice that holds true even today. Y'all don't start no shit and thar won't be none...

No one is supporting mediocrity, least of all me. I support reality. The reality is when you do shitty gigs, sometimes they are shitty. No amount of forum threads are going to change that. The key there is to know the vendors in the area and have the juice to be able to decline a vendor. If you are stuck using local production on the casino and corndog circuit sometimes you get what you get. I'm not saying it's right, that it's just the reality sometimes. Maintaining and supporting your act's production starts within your organization.
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

Francesco Sgambellone said:
Actually Dave, the vendor was forced by the local site coordinator to get another system and hang it during the late afternoon. Funny enough they manged to hang almost twice as much as they brought initially and almost what was originally agreed to. I think it might have been easier to do it right the first time. It wasn't my idea but there was no way the promoter was going to pay for a burned up system. Especially when it is not what was agreed to. I don't mean to be a dick, but fair is fair. I have nothing against any sound vendor. I have no reason to. But if you aren't going to do the gig as you agreed to, you deserve what happens. Especially when you send less than helpful personel. Not only did they leave a guy in charge who didn't give a shit, he also allowed the engineers to wreck his system. How about that money spent. This isn't just from regional companies either. I have been run through the ringer with some very large companies overseas because I do not use them for regular touring when I am over there. The shitty gear is not what I am talking about. It is the level of service and civility you would come to expect at work. Because in the end, that's all it is, work. If any of these people ever worked anywhere else, they would be sacked. Luck of the draw had nothing to do with this. They said they would do one thing, they ignored all of it and did something else and then paid for it when the system melted down.
As far as this gig goes, Vish isn't here. Ian Newton is mixing monitors. Vish is with Luis Miguel.

Hey Bruce. How's things. You like that? This guy is gonna give me agita!!!
Click to expand...

Is Rob Mathes conducting on this tour? Is it the symphonicity (sp?) tour?
 
Re: Speaking of Varsity

Hello Kevin.

This show does not have the orchestra. It's a stripped down version of his show. Band is beyond description good, And Howard Page is mixing the show. It would bring tears to your eyes to hear how good this sounds, It is a privilege to watch him work. His methods of tuning the system and building the mix from a blank slate are way beyond any mixer I have ever been fortunate to work with. He is the man. If anyone gets a chance to hear the Sting Orchestra tour. GO GO GO GO GO. Was that clear enough.

By the way, the ignore function is great. Thanks Bennet.

Frank S.
 
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