Still no product?...RANT

C

Charlie Zureki

Junior
Jan 12, 2011
424
0
0
Detroit area
Hello,

Some of you may know I have a low tolerance for B.S., and, have a bit of a temper. So...I can't decide if I'm handling this situation "very well"....or, ignoring the nagging feeling I have that I'm handling it poorly....

About the middle of this past May, I placed an order with a small supplier that I know. I paid cash, and in-full, at the time of the order.

I've know this guy and his Company for about 13 years. I've placed orders with them before, always got my product, although it took longer that it typically should, and cost more money than a bigger Company would have charged, but, I try to throw some business to the smaller Companies from time to time.

Anyway... since the original order date, I've heard these excuses:

1.) "Out of stock...back ordered"
2.) "They shipped all of our order, except yours"
3.) "If it was back-ordered, the girl forgot to re-place the order, which is how our system works, we have to re-order the items"
4.) " I don't know why the items haven't been shipped..... I'll call you back"
5.) " You mean you haven't got the items yet?.... I'll call you back"
6.) " I got item "D", but am still waiting on "A,B, &C"
7.) " Still waiting on items A, B &C", you can pick up item D"

After hearing all of these excuses, I phoned the Company owner and said...If you can't get the product, for whatever reason..OK, just give me my money back. He apologizes and tells me that he'll get "RIGHT ON IT".

So...three and a half months go by, So...late today, I'm in the area and decide to stop in and find out exactly as to what's going on...

As I walk in the door, the counter lady tosses 1 item (item, D) on the counter. Attached to the item is a small amount money in twenty dollar bills. Calmly, I ask "what is this?" She says that I'll have to talk to the boss. (but, he's not in)

I tell her that: "this is only a part of the order, where's the rest?" She repeats, that I have to talk to the boss. I then tell her that between the item "D" and the small amount of cash...(which is my apparent refund), that, I'm still owed a LOT of money. She repeats her "Talk to the boss" speech.

Not noticing another customer standing behind me ...I tell her this is Bull-shit, that, "I ordered this stuff THREE & a HALF months AGO! WTF!" Then, I tell her I want my money back...Immediately! She tells me to "keep my voice down", that, "it's not proper to talk about this in front of customers". (her tone and gestures are dismissive... as if I've really got no complaint)

Customers?...I said... I'm a freaking customer!

At this point...I'm so pissed, I could feel my heart pounding. I pushed the item "D" with the few twenties, back to her and left. (I wasn't going to accept part of the order, or, even part of my money being returned)

I called the Owner again on his cell phone and left him a message...it hasn't been returned.

I suppose what really pisses me off, is that, he's not the cheapest, he doesn't have the best selection of product, but, I've supported him when I could and sent others to him as customers....and, I have not gotten a straight answer since this order was placed. My anger is not about the money...it's about the BS

Tomorrow ....

Hammer

ps. maybe it was good for him that he wasn't there....
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

Hate to say it but it sounds like the death throws of a company that's been using the next customers money to purchase the previous customers items. Good luck. You might want to take what you get asap.
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

Sorry to hear that. I buy locally (and pay a premium to) from stores that I want to be around locally in the future. Sounds like once you get your money back on this issue it's time to move on.

Back when Banjo Depot would deal and had good prices, I did a lot of business through them. Since they've gone to be a MAP only (or higher) dealer, I think I've done about $50 with them total over the last 4 years.
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

It's bad when people we want to trust disappoint us. You may still have a chance of getting your money back if you are quick and lawyer up. If you wait there probably won't be anything left, but you probably already know this.

He is between a rock and hard place, hoping for some magical recovery in the economy that isn't coming any time soon.

Trust but verify

JR

PS: I suspect it isn't much fun for his employees either.
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

Hello,

I think this guy got the point. He called me this morning and left me a detailed message, saying that one of his employees was told by me that I cancelled the order months ago. This is not exactly true, but, at the end of July I did give them the option of either filling the order or returning my money, I never heard any decision from them either way as to what THEY intended to do...

He also said that his supplier cut off all new orders from a couple of manufacturers....it seems that they are having money problems. So...I WAS getting "handled".

Anyway... he said he'd have my refund in full, and that I could pick it up later today. We'll see...

Hammer
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

Sometimes, it does turn out to be a simple misunderstanding. Recently, I placed a significant AKG order and it was delayed for weeks. Apparently, Harman decided to upgrade all the inventory and order systems for all their brands and they could not find the products I ordered! I had to apologize to the customer for the significant delay; fortunately he was very understanding.

Either way, I've found that communication is key - a customer would much rather know about a delay as soon as possible, rather than weeks later.

Hammer, I'm glad you have potentially resolved the issue.
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

Yeah,

I'm pretty sure he'll refund my money, of course I'll never do business with him again.

Looking back...there may have been some mistakes on their part, but, even after the numerous times I gave them the "out" ...they still insisted that the items were coming.

Hammer has become a kinder, gentler person, instead of my older ways...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVUj39TvFOg
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

The only thing that does not add up is if you cancelled the order at some previous date, you should have received a refund then.

A shaky dealer getting cut off by the manufacturer sounds plausible. Him holding your prepayment after learning that he can't satisfy the order is not above board.

He could be basically honest but in a bad way. Don't let his failure become your problem. IIRC prepayments and deposits look like unsecured debts in bankruptcy.

get your money in hand ASAP, and walk away (and don't take legal advice from me :-).

Good luck...

JR
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

Charlie Zureki said:
Hello,
So...I can't decide if I'm handling this situation "very well"....or, ignoring the nagging feeling I have that I'm handling it poorly....

Tomorrow ....
Hammer
ps. maybe it was good for him that he wasn't there....
Click to expand...

Hammer, glad to see this might be straightening itself out.

Regarding that first line. I am reminded of the internet rants of food servers vs. restaurant customers. (Only vaguely reminded.)
But it boils down to you shouldn't have had to do anything on your end. But when it was being ignored, then you should have been more proactive in getting after him.

In today's business world, I have to remind myself to tell the people that I have to deal with that my rants are for those above them.
As I rarely get to interact with the management itself. So you didn't get to take your frustration out on him directly, leaving you unfulfilled, and her having to take his crap, and probably take it home with her.

I am getting more and more fed up with the current business models of corporate America, and it is starting to immigrate into smaller businesses.
In our world, my worst peeve is with PennFab/Elcom. I didn't like Elcom before they merged, and then instead of bringing Elcom up to Penn's level, the final product was worse than Elcom pre merger.

So, instead of one productive line, and one inferior, there is a mish-mash of both lines, with no-one knowing either, and nothing in stock anyway, and them making so many mistakes its absolutely frustrating. Such as sending out the wrong product just so, we will have something in our hands, or maybe not know the difference? Who knows what they are up to.

Take that and add in the "current economic climate" (I hate that phrase, I can't wait for it to be on "Life in Hell's" list of words or phrases that needs to be struck from our lexicon), and your supplier is in a bad spot, made worse by his supplier (probably).

Good luck to us all.

Regards, Jack

(edit) If I can project my frustrations onto yours. And take it in a topic swerve to suit my needs, and unfullfil yours.
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

Charlie Zureki said:
Yeah,

I'm pretty sure he'll refund my money, of course I'll never do business with him again.

Looking back...there may have been some mistakes on their part, but, even after the numerous times I gave them the "out" ...they still insisted that the items were coming.

Hammer has become a kinder, gentler person, instead of my older ways...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVUj39TvFOg
Click to expand...

This image comes to mind for me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=hspNaoxzNbs
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

Chris Davis said:
This image comes to mind for me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=hspNaoxzNbs
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you were using that as a possible example of my behavior with the sales clerk...or how I should have acted....

But, I didn't act that way to the clerk... I was only "loud" (in her eyes) because she felt she was either caught in the middle and didn't know what to say...and/or, she couldn't contact the Boss.

People will (generally) only get loud when they feel that they're not being taken seriously, or, when they're being ignored.

Hammer
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

If it's any consolation... I'm currently dealing with a similar issue:

1) I was sold product & a program April of this year.

2) Estimated delivery date of 3 weeks… completion of the project within 4 or 5 weeks… with all the paperwork & processes signed, sealed, delivered and done by that time.

3) As it’s turned out so-far, the “program” appears to be smoke & mirrors, and approx. 30% of the paid for product has been delivered… ‘cept all of the delivered product is different (and way wrong).

4) It's been 4 + months... ain't nothing going right with this deal... I’ve firmly communicated this and communicated that want my money back... getting nothing but double talk and promises.

5) Salesman has been living really large this summer (I'm not the only one asking for their money back).

6) Lawyer advice has been "civil court is expensive and outcomes are uncertain... and recovery is only as good as the plaintiffs ability to pay... which is doubtful"... based on the seeming evidence that the plaintiff spent all the money on hookers & booze... and wasted the rest.

Any tips on getting my money back (short of a Louisville Slugger)? It is a fair amount of money… more money that I have invested in my scooters… and I spent the money to “do the right thing” and “help save the environment” (last time I’ll do that).
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

Hello,

I did stop into the shop today to speak to the owner. Without saying a word he immediately handed me an envelope that clearly contained money. As I started to count the money (having realized that he couldn't get the product), the owner started with his long, varied explanations...

The purchasing agent...screwed up the orders...
My order got shipped to the wrong place....
The Manufacturer cut off their purchasing credit..
The Sales clerk lost the order...
Etc...etc...

At this point, I told him that I didn't need to hear the explanations, and that I was unhappy to hear that he was having problems of what ever type and that I would never purchase anything again from him, or even recommend his business to anyone.

Then, his explanation's start to change to include me ... as it was somehow MY fault for not making clear that I wanted the gear. I told him if I didn't want the gear..I never would have ordered it , nor paid in Full for it... and then reminded him that I never talked about cancelling any part of the order until three weeks ago. I reminded him that I said in that conversation: "If for some reason you cannot get the products, No problem, just refund my money." And that his response was..."We have one item now, and expect the rest any day."

Well, the envelope contained the total amount of my payment and $200 extra. I gave him the $200 over-payment, saying it was too much money,(he was so tight, he didn't even realize). I then told him that if he still had the one piece of gear that had arrived, that I would purchase it right then. (trying to be fair)

As I drove away with my returned money and a single piece from my original order, I realized that this guy is in over his head. That his Company will probably be shutting the doors any day. I'm guessing that he was robbing Peter to pay Paul. Apparently, today my name was Paul.

Hammer
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

W. Mark Hellinger said:
If it's any consolation... I'm currently dealing with a similar issue:

Any tips on getting my money back (short of a Louisville Slugger)? It is a fair amount of money…
Click to expand...


Hello Mark,

Sorry for hearing of your issues too.

The only advice I can think of at this time, is that sometimes, the Louisville method (or the appearance that you'll resort to the method) is the only way.

It's the only way to "reach" people that scam for a living.

Good Luck
Hammer
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

Charlie Zureki said:
Hello Mark,

Sorry for hearing of your issues too.

The only advice I can think of at this time, is that sometimes, the Louisville method (or the appearance that you'll resort to the method) is the only way.

It's the only way to "reach" people that scam for a living.

Good Luck
Hammer
Click to expand...
Thanks for the empathy (and shoulder to cry on).

Your detail about his explaination turning to somehow being "your" fault really hit home. Do all these folks go to the same school (it just seems to flow... extremely well rehearsed)?
 
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Re: Still no product?...RANT

W. Mark Hellinger said:
If it's any consolation... I'm currently dealing with a similar issue:

1) I was sold product & a program April of this year.

2) Estimated delivery date of 3 weeks… completion of the project within 4 or 5 weeks… with all the paperwork & processes signed, sealed, delivered and done by that time.

3) As it’s turned out so-far, the “program” appears to be smoke & mirrors, and approx. 30% of the paid for product has been delivered… ‘cept all of the delivered product is different (and way wrong).

4) It's been 4 + months... ain't nothing going right with this deal... I’ve firmly communicated this and communicated that want my money back... getting nothing but double talk and promises.

5) Salesman has been living really large this summer (I'm not the only one asking for their money back).

6) Lawyer advice has been "civil court is expensive and outcomes are uncertain... and recovery is only as good as the plaintiffs ability to pay... which is doubtful"... based on the seeming evidence that the plaintiff spent all the money on hookers & booze... and wasted the rest.

Any tips on getting my money back (short of a Louisville Slugger)? It is a fair amount of money… more money that I have invested in my scooters… and I spent the money to “do the right thing” and “help save the environment” (last time I’ll do that).
Click to expand...



If there was a delivery date of three weeks from April... You sir are way too patient.

can you make a claim against his estate?

JR
 
Re: Still no product?...RANT

John Roberts said:
If there was a delivery date of three weeks from April... You sir are way too patient.

can you make a claim against his estate?

JR
Click to expand...
We (my contractor, the scam artist's ex-employer, and myself) are working on that. We might be trumped, however, by prossecutor(s) bringing criminal suits.

That... and his estate might consist of little more than an upside-down mortgage, and a dumpster full of past due notices, a lease vehicle that he doesn't dare turn-in, and a fine collection of chinese Rolex watches.
 
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Re: Still no product?...RANT

Charlie Zureki said:
I'm not sure if you were using that as a possible example of my behavior with the sales clerk...or how I should have acted....

But, I didn't act that way to the clerk... I was only "loud" (in her eyes) because she felt she was either caught in the middle and didn't know what to say...and/or, she couldn't contact the Boss.

People will (generally) only get loud when they feel that they're not being taken seriously, or, when they're being ignored.

Hammer
Click to expand...

LOL, no... that is just how I might have been feeling internally if I were you. Of course we both have a sense of self control.

Things are getting more difficult for everyone out there, that's for sure.
 
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