Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

Re: Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

Tim Padrick wrote on Sun said:
Grant Conklin wrote on Fri said:
The Earthworks system was my inspiration to try a shower curtain rod and 2 of these. My piano playing buddy likes it.



Grant
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How do you keep the rod from rotating owing to the off-center weight of the mics?
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I have a response from my friend:



Quote: said:
I immediately noticed the weight torque issue, so I actually just mounted the mic close to the high register with a piece of foam that the mic rests on. I used a dynamic for live rehearsal usage. I would imagine a small diaphragm mic would work just the same, but there's really no way around the torque issue with the current design.

The only other solution is to use ''lavalier'' condenser type of a pod, like what we use for choir mics, and rig a way to mount those plastic holder thingy's on the rod. Then there wouldn't be enough weight to torque

maybe...
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So, I guess that design isn't working out as good as I thought. If anyone has thoughts on how to improve on it, I welcome them. If I knew of a shorter boom/clip, that would probably solve it.



Grant
 
Re: Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

Two questions:



One, is there a ''shelf'' on the underside of the piano body, near where the pedal mechanics meet the frame? The Kawai and Steinway pianos I have dealt with in the past have had this, and made an excellent place to put a boundary style mic.



Two, if the answer to question one above is ''yes'', do you have a PZM mic? If so, place it on the aforementioned ''shelf'' and Bob is your father's brother.



I have used this method several times in the past when I couldn't get a mic inside the piano for whatever reason, and it has worked pretty well for different musical situations. I suspect that in a small room you should be able to get pretty good results, though it may take a bit of EQ correction. You may have trouble if the pianist needs a loud monitor, but other than that, you should get very useable results.



-C

 
Re: Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

One of the things I didn't mention is the act places both their mains and monitors under the piano.



I know you cant believe it, but that's just the way they want to do it.
 
Re: Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

Grant Conklin wrote on Sun said:
Quote: said:
I immediately noticed the weight torque issue, so I actually just mounted the mic close to the high register with a piece of foam that the mic rests on. I used a dynamic for live rehearsal usage. I would imagine a small diaphragm mic would work just the same, but there's really no way around the torque issue with the current design.

The only other solution is to use ''lavalier'' condenser type of a pod, like what we use for choir mics, and rig a way to mount those plastic holder thingy's on the rod. Then there wouldn't be enough weight to torque

maybe...
Click to expand...



So, I guess that design isn't working out as good as I thought. If anyone has thoughts on how to improve on it, I welcome them. If I knew of a shorter boom/clip, that would probably solve it.
Click to expand...



Put the two mics on opposite sides of the pole? That way they should balance out.
 
Re: Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

Scott Helmke wrote on Mon said:
Grant Conklin wrote on Sun said:
Quote: said:
I immediately noticed the weight torque issue, so I actually just mounted the mic close to the high register with a piece of foam that the mic rests on. I used a dynamic for live rehearsal usage. I would imagine a small diaphragm mic would work just the same, but there's really no way around the torque issue with the current design.

The only other solution is to use ''lavalier'' condenser type of a pod, like what we use for choir mics, and rig a way to mount those plastic holder thingy's on the rod. Then there wouldn't be enough weight to torque

maybe...
Click to expand...



So, I guess that design isn't working out as good as I thought. If anyone has thoughts on how to improve on it, I welcome them. If I knew of a shorter boom/clip, that would probably solve it.
Click to expand...



Put the two mics on opposite sides of the pole? That way they should balance out.
Click to expand...



That would work, and I passed it along. This might be a better idea than the boom.

 
Re: Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

Yeah, they don't want the technology to be obvious.



Screw it, you can throw thousands of dollars worth of esoteric mics, processing, etc at this. Go in some morning and remove the piano action (typically only 4 screws) and replace it with an electronic keyboard. It will cost less and you'll never have a feedback issue.
 
Re: Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

How 'bout a C-Ducer.



If you use a c-tape from C-Ducer, make sure the adhesive tape is going to hold

through the show.





I should have mentioned, a Helpinstill pickup would be my #1 choice if you ever get the change to get under the lid.
 
Re: Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

+1 on the C-ducer, although I have rarely had the opportunity to use them myself. So far I think the other best ideas are the Barcus Berry or the electronic keyboard - something I have seen a lot of. Followed by the SM91 idea.



I have used small diaphram condensors inside a closed-lid piano on quite a few occasions. They tend to sound great, but tend to need a lot of EQ work as some strings will sound quite a bit louder than the others. Not unlike the Barcus Berry though.
icon_rolleyes.gif
 
Re: Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

I have had similar situations and have had good success with an LDC (AKG3000B) underneath the piano about two feet away from the sound board. Since this is a piano bar and not Liberace this may work for your situation.



I use this method for a regular client who is a classically trained pianist and he is very happy with the results so it may work for you.



Jon
 
Re: Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

Dick Rees wrote on Sun said:
Tim Perry wrote on Wed said:
A mic cannot be permanently installed.
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Why not?????
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Well, let me elaborate a bit. While I provide sound for this act on their outdoor shows, they prefer to go self contained to the small gigs.



I merely want to provide a method that will maximize my enjoyment of their performance at no cost to them.



I have had no contact with venue management but would not expect them to be conducive to any suggestion that might mar the appearance or value of their showpiece.



Ordinarily, micing a grand isn't so difficult. I have a wide variety of condensers available... just not any so specialized as a C-ducer. In this instance the PA speakers and wedge monitor are placed under the piano, the lid cannot be raised (because of the centerpiece) and the crowd is against the piano all night.



I have read and considered (and appreciate) all the posts. They have given me several lines of thought.



I am considering, among options, the Countryman H-2, however I am unsure if it will overload with their mixpac.



I have a variety of PZM's and PCC's but I need to strike a balance between functionality, aesthetics, and ease of deployment.



Next show is friday.
 
Re: Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

Tim Perry wrote on Sun said:
Well here was the result.



2 Countryman isomax H-2 tapes to capos and then clamped to the piano.



The audio in the clip was the built in mics on the handycam.



The vocal mic inside was removed after this picture was taken.
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Clever use of the capos!



How was the bass response? (it's hard to tell from the camera mic).

 
Re: Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

Dave Rickard wrote on Mon said:
Tim Perry wrote on Sun said:
Well here was the result.



2 Countryman isomax H-2 tapes to capos and then clamped to the piano.



The audio in the clip was the built in mics on the handycam.



The vocal mic inside was removed after this picture was taken.
Click to expand...



Clever use of the capos!



How was the bass response? (it's hard to tell from the camera mic).
Click to expand...





Bass response? ... monitors were old BFI Bullfrogs.



I was able to achieve my objective, make the artists and audience and myself happy.
 
Re: Suggest a mic mount for this grand piano

Tim Perry wrote on Sat said:
I am somewhat perplexed about how a random incidence omni differs from a omni mic
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A random incidence (aka diffuse field) omni has a spherically integrated flat response (averaged throughout the polar pattern).



A direct field omni has a flat frequency response on axis. A random incidence omni will have a response that rises with frequency on axis above a certain frequency depending on the physical properties of the microphone/capsule.
 
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