X32 Discussion
- Thread starter Rob Spence
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re: X32 Discussion
You don't need a P-16I at all, when you are working with a X32. Hook up the P-16M straight to the desk...done! The P-16I is for user, who work with a different console but want to use a P-16 system.
You don't need a P-16I at all, when you are working with a X32. Hook up the P-16M straight to the desk...done! The P-16I is for user, who work with a different console but want to use a P-16 system.
re: X32 Discussion
The X32 has a build in mackie control and it emulates 8 hardware faders with the DCA faders (just like the Mackie Hardware). I just did a quick demo recording of a amateur metal band with the X32 and Presonus StudioOne. The Daw integration is super slick. Eight faders are more than enough for me, to ride fader volumes and automation rides. BTW: Here's a snipped of the song
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21028604/RE_ZONG_7_21.06.2012%20(2).mp3
Big advantages for the X32 in a studio enviroment: Midas Preamps, the awesome build in recording card (down to 48 Samples latency over FiWi) and the P-16 System for musicians headphones mixes
Check it out - it rocks!
Christian
The X32 has a build in mackie control and it emulates 8 hardware faders with the DCA faders (just like the Mackie Hardware). I just did a quick demo recording of a amateur metal band with the X32 and Presonus StudioOne. The Daw integration is super slick. Eight faders are more than enough for me, to ride fader volumes and automation rides. BTW: Here's a snipped of the song
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21028604/RE_ZONG_7_21.06.2012%20(2).mp3
Big advantages for the X32 in a studio enviroment: Midas Preamps, the awesome build in recording card (down to 48 Samples latency over FiWi) and the P-16 System for musicians headphones mixes
Check it out - it rocks!
Christian
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re: X32 Discussion
A quick update on my X32 gigs. Same band, different rental company. They build up a really nice stage with lot's of LED stuff. PA system was JBL VRX with two additional infra subs.
I orderd a flight case for the X32 from Thomann in Germany. It is basically there basic case, but I wanted it in black and with no Thomann badge on it. This raised the price about 10%, but the case
it nice. X32+case can be lifted from one person, what is important for me because most of the time I work on my own. Some pictures-->
A quick update on my X32 gigs. Same band, different rental company. They build up a really nice stage with lot's of LED stuff. PA system was JBL VRX with two additional infra subs.
I orderd a flight case for the X32 from Thomann in Germany. It is basically there basic case, but I wanted it in black and with no Thomann badge on it. This raised the price about 10%, but the case
it nice. X32+case can be lifted from one person, what is important for me because most of the time I work on my own. Some pictures-->
re: X32 Discussion
If anyone in the NYC area acquires an X32 when its released please PM I'll be interested in a rental.
If anyone in the NYC area acquires an X32 when its released please PM I'll be interested in a rental.
re: X32 Discussion
X32 gig No.30!
Graduation party...I know, it's getting boring but the desk works just fine
Today I will mix on my SAC rig, I hope I can remember how it works
Christian
X32 gig No.30!
Graduation party...I know, it's getting boring but the desk works just fine
Today I will mix on my SAC rig, I hope I can remember how it works
Christian
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re: X32 Discussion
Cristian, thanks for all the time & effort you have put into field testing the X32, I know "everyone" appreciates it immensely!! My interests are not only as a "Live-FOH" Mixer but also the Multi Track Live Recording side! 32 Ch's/Trks has always been the "magic" number for me & it seems that is what the X32 delivers on the included FireWire/USB card. What I don't see (forgive me if I've missed this) is, a 32trk "back up" option.For obvious reasons this is fairly essential on a remote recording as most would agree I'm sure. Is there any way of achieving this as I don't see Direct Outs or any other option as far as I can see??? Many thanks
Cristian, thanks for all the time & effort you have put into field testing the X32, I know "everyone" appreciates it immensely!! My interests are not only as a "Live-FOH" Mixer but also the Multi Track Live Recording side! 32 Ch's/Trks has always been the "magic" number for me & it seems that is what the X32 delivers on the included FireWire/USB card. What I don't see (forgive me if I've missed this) is, a 32trk "back up" option.For obvious reasons this is fairly essential on a remote recording as most would agree I'm sure. Is there any way of achieving this as I don't see Direct Outs or any other option as far as I can see??? Many thanks
re: X32 Discussion
If I Insert say an exciter on a subgroup and multibussing a channel through that group does the entire board latency compensate and change (increase) so that all routes stay in phase? I have read that without inserts the whole system is phase coherent, wonder if it remains that way when inserts are used?
If I Insert say an exciter on a subgroup and multibussing a channel through that group does the entire board latency compensate and change (increase) so that all routes stay in phase? I have read that without inserts the whole system is phase coherent, wonder if it remains that way when inserts are used?
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re: X32 Discussion
Thank you Dave, I'm just filling the gap to the time when the X32 will be available
Concerning the "32track back up option", if I understand you correctly, you would like to see a possebilitiy to have two independent ways of sending your recording signals to two recording units (two daws or one daw and one harddiskrecorder) simultaniously, right? Well, if you use the X32 together with the S-16 digital stageboxes you can do that! You can hook up one daw on the console itself, using the USB or FiWi out of the recording card. In addition, you can hook up a second daw or a harddisk recorder f.e. like the Alesis HD24 or a Fostex 2424 to the ADAT outs of the S-16 stageboxes as a backup system. This should do the trick. Unfortunatelly you can't use the usb AND the firewire out on the X32 simultaniously. You have to activate either usb or firewire in the X32. But this goes for every audio application that uses ASIO audio drivers.
Christian
Thank you Dave, I'm just filling the gap to the time when the X32 will be available
Concerning the "32track back up option", if I understand you correctly, you would like to see a possebilitiy to have two independent ways of sending your recording signals to two recording units (two daws or one daw and one harddiskrecorder) simultaniously, right? Well, if you use the X32 together with the S-16 digital stageboxes you can do that! You can hook up one daw on the console itself, using the USB or FiWi out of the recording card. In addition, you can hook up a second daw or a harddisk recorder f.e. like the Alesis HD24 or a Fostex 2424 to the ADAT outs of the S-16 stageboxes as a backup system. This should do the trick. Unfortunatelly you can't use the usb AND the firewire out on the X32 simultaniously. You have to activate either usb or firewire in the X32. But this goes for every audio application that uses ASIO audio drivers.
Christian
re: X32 Discussion
Hi John,
this is an interessting question and I hope I can answer it with my plain english, as it is a quite complex topic.
Maybe I should start with the not so common fact, that the vast majority of digital live boards (none of the Yamahas or the A&H iLive f.e.) do not have a latency compensation.
I think, only the Digidesign consoles have this feature (correct me, if I'm wrong).
There is a story to both sides. If you are into parallel compression and have fun with any kind of double routing and stuff, you may like latency compensation because you don't need to think about what you are doing. All signals will always be phase coherent. The downside to this is the fact, that you are adding latency to all your signals at the same time. Together with other digital gear in a complete audio rig, it might become hearable at the end. If you just add one GEQ in a (let's say) matrix out in a board with latency compensation, ALL other outputs will face the added latency due to this one GEQ in a matrix out. This is the price you have to pay, if you want phase coherency on the entire console.
Personally, I don't like the idea of latency compensation on a live desk. One example:
On a Yamaha M7CL, the roundtrip time from a analoge input to a direct out is: 1,73 ms (48kHz). If you now set a routing in the M7CL like this:
In(GEQ) – ST(GEQ) – Mtx(GEQ)out
The latency will rise to 2,65 ms. That means, all your monitor outs (feeding InEar systems or floor wedges) would have this amount of latency, if the M7CL would have latency compensation! Let's say you would ad more digital devices like a Line6 wireless mike (I guess they have a latency of about 3ms) and feed your wegdes over a digital speakercontroller (maybe with fir filters) you could end up with an overall latency of about 7 or 8 ms!
To say it straight, the X32 has no latency compensation also. But with the fact in mind, that only the dedicated insert effects on the X32 will rise the latency, you can compensate their latency with the channel delay. The roundtrip time on a X32 is 0,8ms. If you insert one of the eight stereo fx to an audio subgroup or mixbus out, this will add 0,7ms. With this in mind, you should add 0,7ms of channel delay to all these channels you double route to an audiosubgroup where one of these eight FX engines is inserted and all of your signals stay phase coherent. In addition I just want to stress to fact that only these eight stereo effects will add latency, the rest of the desk will always work with 0,8ms latency and is always phase coherent, regardless how much EQ or compression you are usesing.
Long story to a simple question, sorry for that. But I just had a long discussion with on Yamaha PM5D owner, who did not know that his board has no latency compensation too;-)
Christian
Hi John,
this is an interessting question and I hope I can answer it with my plain english, as it is a quite complex topic.
Maybe I should start with the not so common fact, that the vast majority of digital live boards (none of the Yamahas or the A&H iLive f.e.) do not have a latency compensation.
I think, only the Digidesign consoles have this feature (correct me, if I'm wrong).
There is a story to both sides. If you are into parallel compression and have fun with any kind of double routing and stuff, you may like latency compensation because you don't need to think about what you are doing. All signals will always be phase coherent. The downside to this is the fact, that you are adding latency to all your signals at the same time. Together with other digital gear in a complete audio rig, it might become hearable at the end. If you just add one GEQ in a (let's say) matrix out in a board with latency compensation, ALL other outputs will face the added latency due to this one GEQ in a matrix out. This is the price you have to pay, if you want phase coherency on the entire console.
Personally, I don't like the idea of latency compensation on a live desk. One example:
On a Yamaha M7CL, the roundtrip time from a analoge input to a direct out is: 1,73 ms (48kHz). If you now set a routing in the M7CL like this:
In(GEQ) – ST(GEQ) – Mtx(GEQ)out
The latency will rise to 2,65 ms. That means, all your monitor outs (feeding InEar systems or floor wedges) would have this amount of latency, if the M7CL would have latency compensation! Let's say you would ad more digital devices like a Line6 wireless mike (I guess they have a latency of about 3ms) and feed your wegdes over a digital speakercontroller (maybe with fir filters) you could end up with an overall latency of about 7 or 8 ms!
To say it straight, the X32 has no latency compensation also. But with the fact in mind, that only the dedicated insert effects on the X32 will rise the latency, you can compensate their latency with the channel delay. The roundtrip time on a X32 is 0,8ms. If you insert one of the eight stereo fx to an audio subgroup or mixbus out, this will add 0,7ms. With this in mind, you should add 0,7ms of channel delay to all these channels you double route to an audiosubgroup where one of these eight FX engines is inserted and all of your signals stay phase coherent. In addition I just want to stress to fact that only these eight stereo effects will add latency, the rest of the desk will always work with 0,8ms latency and is always phase coherent, regardless how much EQ or compression you are usesing.
Long story to a simple question, sorry for that. But I just had a long discussion with on Yamaha PM5D owner, who did not know that his board has no latency compensation too;-)
Christian
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re: X32 Discussion
Hmmm....given that 1 sample @48kHz FS is 0.02ms i'm not sure i want to compensate with an accuracy of 0.1ms....
any workaround?
Hmmm....given that 1 sample @48kHz FS is 0.02ms i'm not sure i want to compensate with an accuracy of 0.1ms....
any workaround?
re: X32 Discussion
Depends on what you try to achieve with double/multi routing. Say you want to do parallel compression with one of the eight build in fx engines (maybe with the precision limiter) on your drums. Just send all drums to two subgroups and insert the same Special FX on both subgroups, set the ratio to 0 on one of these groups and compress the hell out it on the other group. Mix both groups and both will be phase coherent. Sure, you have to sacrifice one fx slot for that.
Best way is to use the build in channel/group compressor, so you can use a many groups as you like, they are always phase coherent, if you use the "normal EQ and Compression".
Just do your mix like you would do on any soundcraft, iLive or Yamaha desk - they all run into the same limitation.
Christian
Depends on what you try to achieve with double/multi routing. Say you want to do parallel compression with one of the eight build in fx engines (maybe with the precision limiter) on your drums. Just send all drums to two subgroups and insert the same Special FX on both subgroups, set the ratio to 0 on one of these groups and compress the hell out it on the other group. Mix both groups and both will be phase coherent. Sure, you have to sacrifice one fx slot for that.
Best way is to use the build in channel/group compressor, so you can use a many groups as you like, they are always phase coherent, if you use the "normal EQ and Compression".
Just do your mix like you would do on any soundcraft, iLive or Yamaha desk - they all run into the same limitation.
Christian
re: X32 Discussion
For recording backup, I guess you could use the Klark Teknik ds9650 or the lynx card to record from the AES50. Since the ds9650 costs the same as ten x32 desks, this is probably not a viable option, but the lynx card at around €1000 should do the trick.
Given the price of AES50 devices, maybe the most economical option for backup would be a second x32, at least untill Behringer decides to make an AES50 interface (Please!!!!!)
For recording backup, I guess you could use the Klark Teknik ds9650 or the lynx card to record from the AES50. Since the ds9650 costs the same as ten x32 desks, this is probably not a viable option, but the lynx card at around €1000 should do the trick.
Given the price of AES50 devices, maybe the most economical option for backup would be a second x32, at least untill Behringer decides to make an AES50 interface (Please!!!!!)
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re: X32 Discussion
Hello Christian. First, thank you for all the information. Could you tell me how many memory locations are available, please?
Hello Christian. First, thank you for all the information. Could you tell me how many memory locations are available, please?
re: X32 Discussion
I'm in for a AES50 interface
BTW: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/557672_10151010769283914_716540585_n.jpg
They are on the way!
I'm in for a AES50 interface
BTW: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/557672_10151010769283914_716540585_n.jpg
They are on the way!
re: X32 Discussion
Yeah, not long now. Since they are shipping them, I would think there must be a User Guide that they could make available for download.
I'm in for a AES50 interface
BTW: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/557672_10151010769283914_716540585_n.jpg
They are on the way!
Yeah, not long now. Since they are shipping them, I would think there must be a User Guide that they could make available for download.
re: X32 Discussion
Erm, any chance of sending the registration for that truck? I plan on hitting it with my crack squad of mixer stealing troops with a helicopter assault!
Kind regards, Andrew
Mama - The UKs 'all era' Genesis tribute band!
Carillon Video - Professional Wedding Videographer & Wedding Video Production Services in Bolton, Manchester & all over the UK
DISCLAIMER: This was a joke! If a truckload of Behringer X32 digital consoles goes AWOL, it's nothing to do with me!!!
I'm in for a AES50 interface
BTW: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/557672_10151010769283914_716540585_n.jpg
They are on the way!
Erm, any chance of sending the registration for that truck? I plan on hitting it with my crack squad of mixer stealing troops with a helicopter assault!
Kind regards, Andrew
Mama - The UKs 'all era' Genesis tribute band!
Carillon Video - Professional Wedding Videographer & Wedding Video Production Services in Bolton, Manchester & all over the UK
DISCLAIMER: This was a joke! If a truckload of Behringer X32 digital consoles goes AWOL, it's nothing to do with me!!!