X32 Discussion

[Spenser Hamilton]

Re: P16-M - Cannot read the pot & button labels!

I disagree.

My work is often if not always in the dark or near dark, and low-contrast tan lettering on brown background (or whatever it is in this case) is bad design IMHO. Soundcraft and Mackie analog consoles have (or had) this problem, too, and I solved it for me with stick-on lettering. These digital devices are so relatively tiny and tightly packed that user labeling is much more difficult.

Another thing that has bugged me about the X32 itself is the unlit dark-ish lettering of the db scale next to the LED meter ladder. If it were softly backlit that would be sufficient, but as it is (unless there's a preference I'm not finding when specifically looking :roll: ), I can't tell where the hell I am except in the middle or near an end. And yes, I have a Littlelite on board which doesn't help, but the contrast between the brightly lit LED ladder and the unlit dark-lettered numbers is too great to read. I *could* add location indicators (like a mark at -12 or -18), but the designers *could* also have done something which makes it more ergonomically friendly.

Clearly, different users have different opinions, and I don't think anyone is wrong except as it relates to their own usage. Working in the dark or twilight is widespread in our industry IMO.

Edit: And yes, I'm aware the LED ladder changes colors and brightness...

Mix with your ears... If you are worried about SPL then pack a meter, the number of LED's on the graph only serve to indicate how close you are to running out of headroom.

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: P16-M - Cannot read the pot & button labels!

Mix with your ears... If you are worried about SPL then pack a meter, the number of LED's on the graph only serve to indicate how close you are to running out of headroom.

Exactly, which is why I want to know what it is. And the LED ladders are not system headroom, it's electrical/digital headroom within the console. If that sucks, everything downstream is going to suck. So I like to know precisely where I am at any given moment, and the three main LED ladders have considerably more resolution than those on the channel in/outs.

 

[Lance Richens]

Re: P16-M - Cannot read the pot & button labels!

Our worship group uses these in dim lighting with no problem. Once it's initially set up, you pretty much are only tweaking a couple of knobs. Add to that the labels I have made & we have no complaints. Especially considering the price difference between these & the others. Geez, what do you expect for just over $200.00?

 

[Spenser Hamilton]

Re: P16-M - Cannot read the pot & button labels!

Exactly, which is why I want to know what it is. And the LED ladders are not system headroom, it's electrical/digital headroom within the console. If that sucks, everything downstream is going to suck. So I like to know precisely where I am at any given moment, and the three main LED ladders have considerably more resolution than those on the channel in/outs.

I never said they represented system headroom. Again, mix with your ears, if it's not red then you still have head room. These aren't old noisy consoles where you need to maximise SN...

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: P16-M - Cannot read the pot & button labels!

Especially considering the price difference between these & the others. Geez, what do you expect for just over $200.00?

Agreed. I'm willing to put up with considerably less than perfection for the price point, and think these Behringer products are astonishingly close to perfection, so far. Which doesn't mean there are no shortcomings to be worked around.

Your picture shows a higher visual contrast than I expected, certainly more than the other brands of mixers I mentioned earlier. And your solution looks like it solves most of the problem, if not all. I will solve my problem with the LED ladders using a couple of white dots. Not a big deal.

FWIW (not much), the P-16 has no relevance for my niche (mostly one-nighters), but seems like a fantastic tool for people who will use it often enough to get familiar with it.

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Re: P16-M - Cannot read the pot & button labels!

... if it's not red then you still have head room...

Yes, but for how long, and how much headroom is there exactly, and what are the dynamics of the program material? That is what I want to see when solo'ing something. When using a meter with more resolution than the channel meters, knowing more precisely where the signal is at any moment and over time is kind of the point.

Your use of "SPL meter" and "headroom" in the same sentence made me think you were coupling the two with the LED ladder meters. Sorry for misunderstanding.

I mix with my ears, my eyes, my brain, my non-brain feelings, my skin when there is some thumping low end, my consciousness of aural pain and the need to avoid it, and anything else I can get involved when appropriate. The types of music I do generally do not involve my internal organs, but I believe there are mixers who involve theirs.

As I said in another post, a couple of white dots will solve my problem.

 

[Spenser Hamilton]

Re: P16-M - Cannot read the pot & button labels!

Yes, but for how long, and how much headroom is there exactly, and what are the dynamics of the program material? That is what I want to see when solo'ing something. When using a meter with more resolution than the channel meters, knowing more precisely where the signal is at any moment and over time is kind of the point.

Your use of "SPL meter" and "headroom" in the same sentence made me think you were coupling the two with the LED ladder meters. Sorry for misunderstanding.

I mix with my ears, my eyes, my brain, my non-brain feelings, my skin when there is some thumping low end, my consciousness of aural pain and the need to avoid it, and anything else I can get involved when appropriate. The types of music I do generally do not involve my internal organs, but I believe there are mixers who involve theirs.

As I said in another post, a couple of white dots will solve my problem.

I just don't see it. To me, I just want to know that my I'm not clipping anywhere in the chain, whether my signal is peaking at -15 or -12 on the little scale they silk-screened on doesn't matter as much as what I hear coming out of the PA.

 

[Juergen Riemann]

Re: P16-M - Cannot read the pot & button labels!

The X32 has 40bit floating point dsp's which means the console can internally never overload and distort. The only critical gate ways are the AD and DA convertes where you have to watch levels. Once you are within the digital domain you can never overload.

Quite different from analog consoles and actually much better as you just need to watch the input and output meters.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: P16-M - Cannot read the pot & button labels!

Our worship group uses these in dim lighting with no problem. Once it's initially set up, you pretty much are only tweaking a couple of knobs. Add to that the labels I have made & we have no complaints. Especially considering the price difference between these & the others. Geez, what do you expect for just over $200.00?

I have never seen one in real life, so I have no idea what the readability is, and maybe the original poster is having unrealistic expectations about readability in low light.
However, if there is room for improvement by selecting a brighter print colour and/or using slightly bigger lettering, such an improvement doesn't cost anything (except for slight retooling costs) and would have cost nothing if it was implemented in the original design whether the product cost $20 or $2000. If there is no room for improvement except by making a back-lit facia, then obviously cost comes into it, you get new reliability issues with a more complicated design etc. etc.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: P16-M - Cannot read the pot & button labels!

My work is often if not always in the dark or near dark, and low-contrast tan lettering on brown background (or whatever it is in this case) is bad design IMHO. Soundcraft and Mackie analog consoles have (or had) this problem, too, and I solved it for me with stick-on lettering. These digital devices are so relatively tiny and tightly packed that user labeling is much more difficult....<snip>

Fortunately, with the X32 unlike an analog desk, all pushbuttons and rotaries are clearly visible as regards their state or position and while I could definitely wirh for some bigger and brighter lettering etc., I don't mind having to learn where everything is, as that is something I'm need to know to work with any efficiency, thus the lettering etc. is of no real consequence except that I needed my glasses and decent light in the learning phase.
Getting a feel for the meters I found very easy, so I personally don't see that as an issue.
While I don't mind the fact that there is a plug for a light, it should really be a superflous element for a digital desk. At least it is in a location that suggest that it is really meant for a side light so one can read scripts and stuff.

 

[Brad Weber]

Re: P16-M - Cannot read the pot & button labels!

However, if there is room for improvement by selecting a brighter print colour and/or using slightly bigger lettering, such an improvement doesn't cost anything (except for slight retooling costs) and would have cost nothing if it was implemented in the original design whether the product cost $20 or $2000.

I have a feeling quite a bit of study and effort went into the current labeling and while there seems to be one person having a problem with that, if the labeling changed to use brighter colors, larger text, etc, then there could easily be many more complaining about that. Not to mention that a change in production would not help Pauly's existing units. If there is sufficient market or need then I envision some enterprising person developing an overlay or something similar and offering it for those who want it.

 

[Florian Parzer]

Low-Cut Recall Safe?

hey there,

i prepared a show for an act i'm touring with because i do a lot of sidechain-compression with different routing and effects from song to song. i need to be able to adapt channel eq's, compressors, mains graphicEQ and make them recall safe, which in my tests worked out fine with one drawback.

i didn't manage to get the low-cut recall safe with the "parameters safe" tab - any hints or thoughts on this?

cheers,
flo

 

[Bob Harvey]

Cable from X32 to S16

I found this great Eurocable multi signal cable from Link, USA.

It is ideal for getting power and signal from the stage to your FOH position.

Additionally, there is a digital audio pair that can be used for DMX.

Give R.J. a shout at Link, USA. 608-826-4680 ext. 104

Link USA > Home

 

[Declan Slater]

Re: Cable from X32 to S16

That's a great cable, but I would always be afraid of it getting cut or run over in a mobile situation, the short would blow the crap outta everything!

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: Low-Cut Recall Safe?

hey there,

i prepared a show for an act i'm touring with because i do a lot of sidechain-compression with different routing and effects from song to song. i need to be able to adapt channel eq's, compressors, mains graphicEQ and make them recall safe, which in my tests worked out fine with one drawback.

i didn't manage to get the low-cut recall safe with the "parameters safe" tab - any hints or thoughts on this?

cheers,
flo

I think it follows the "channel processing" category while it should belong maybe in "config" category when you look at where it is placed in the tabs

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: Cable from X32 to S16

That's a great cable, but I would always be afraid of it getting cut or run over in a mobile situation, the short would blow the crap outta everything!

That's a b..... good point, I'm throwing out all my combined pwr+signal speaker cables.

 

[Shane Presley]

Re: Cable from X32 to S16

That's a b..... good point, I'm throwing out all my combined pwr+signal speaker cables.

It would make you throw out that cable is it did suffer any damage... I looked at the link cable, and if one of the cables dies inside (say from being damaged), it kinda makes it useless... alot of coin thrown away, instead of running another CAT 5, or DMX cable....
Plus I got a sample of this cable sent to me... it's about the thickness of a 24 x 4 pair snake, not "small" by any means.

 

[Dan Mortensen]

Combat Audio Console Labeling Using the iPad

If this has already been covered somewhere in the previous 200 pages, my apologies to the original poster.

If not, here is something I found last night that will be useful for occasions where you have no time but still need to relabel the console.

Using a bluetooth keyboard with the iPad, it is possible to relabel the console as quickly as you can type, as long as you start at channel 1 and proceed in order through the console.

1) Get to input channel 1, go to the "Naming" tab.

2) Put the cursor into the name field, which may or may not have a name already in it from previous use.

3) Delete whatever you don't want to use, or delete it all so you start with a clean slate (probably quicker).

4) Type in what you want.

5) If you want to change the color of the channel, do so in a way that you don't cause the cursor to leave the name field (don't let your finger linger on the color wheel).

6) Hit "Return" on the keyboard, and repeat for the next channel.

7) When finished, go back to whatever screen you want. When you next need to rename, the cursor will be still in the naming field, and you can hit "Delete" repeatedly to get back to a clean slate on the channel of choice.

As long as you don't need to go backwards in channel numbers, you can zip through the input strip quicker than writing with a pen on a scribble strip. Going backward does not seem to be possible using the keyboard only, although I hope someone can correct me.

Presumably using XControl can do the same thing on your laptop, but this is how to do it on the iPad if you have that and a keyboard at the gig and not a laptop.

 

[Timo Ulkuniemi]

Re: Cable from X32 to S16

That's a great cable, but I would always be afraid of it getting cut or run over in a mobile situation, the short would blow the crap outta everything!

Hello

If a truck drives over your cables - be it analog multicore plus separate power cable or CAT/power/DMX combi - it shows poor system planning. Why does anyone bring any cable somewhere, where cars or trucs drive.

And if/when that happens - if powercable gets shorted, it blows the fuse, NOT the desk !!!

what makes you think the short would come first between power-live and one of 8 CAT-wires - through four insulations - instead of power live and 0V or power ground - only through TWO insulations ???

 

[Karl Barnes]

Re: P16-M - Cannot read the pot & button labels!

Here's one of mine, in focus (sorry, couldn't resist!).



No complaints about visibility so far.

The keys are submixed to a group and I've also assigned Talkback to that group.
That's the only compromise I've had to make in order to fit everything in.

HTH.

Karl.