X32 Discussion

re: X32 Discussion

Yeah, great audio on camcorders and cellphones. While I'm not predisposed to liking either this product or Behringer, I think such a vid, for the purposes of hearing the audio, would do it a disservice.

That's why I thought to record it with Camtesia. I could directly tap the signal from the X32 master out into my focusrite soundcard. That should be "ok" soundwise, at least for a first impression.
 
re: X32 Discussion

Not to belabor the point, but by the time the audio stream is compressed with the video for posting it will be a moot issue. Even over headphones I doubt there would be a discernible difference between the X32 and any other digital console.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, just that reaching any kind of conclusion from the audio would be mostly pointless.
 
re: X32 Discussion

Camtasia can do HD video with good sound, but I'm with you...this would never be professional in terms of the audio resolution. But it would give a hint concerning, how the dynamics work, or how fast the Eq manages changes and so on. On the other hand, most digital consoles sound suitable and the X32 is no exception. I find it hard to hear differences between MicPreamps and EQ algorithem alone. Those differences become more obvious, if you consider the desk completely...with bus summing and complete gain stageing. The only obivious thing, is the really good FX quality of the X32. I won't comment on preamps regarding "sound". The measurements show, that the X32 is low noise, low THD and so on...but that goes with any other serious digital desk.
 
re: X32 Discussion

@Nick: By now, the X32 does not have the straight to disk recording feature, BUT there will be an alternative card for the X32, which will has this feature! Maybe it will even feature 24 Track straight to disk recording...and it might have an additional cool feature, from I'm not sure, if I'm allowed to tell. Sorry about that, but you will get the straight to disk feature. But you need an harddisk (USB), it will probably not work with USB sticks.

Christian

That sound really good - any hint on the additional cool feature? ( playback from the HD as direct inputs to the X32 with transport control!?)


Nick
 
re: X32 Discussion

While I'm waiting to read the review, I'll post a couple of questions.
1. As far as I can tell, the channel dynamics doesn't provide for compressor + limiter. Am I missing something? My current outboard compressors allows me to set compression and limiting to suit my needs/wishes, and I can even add gate/ducking/expansion for good measure if I so wish. I would hate to use up the effect channels to achieve what I want. Can a compression + limiting function be achieved by adjusting the width of the knee to 15dB or beyond, or can the knee be "double jointed"?
2. When muting input channels, will this affect inputs sent to AES50 and P16?
3. Is there any noise on the outputs at power-up? Some of my current Behringer equipment pops quite loud at power-up, and it isn't always possible or practical to power down the mains and the monitors.
 
re: X32 Discussion

I haven't heard anything about scene recall yet. Is it seamless like most digitals, or is there a muting of audio as it changes like the studiolive? I'm now considering this for theater use.
Well if it has similar facilities to their old DDX3216 it should be seamless - on that you could also specify the fade time between the changes from one scene to next - certainly included the faders, the compression,gate and EQ - lovely to watch!
Per - if you look at the quick start guide and some of the youtube videos you will see their is a gate and separate dynamics for each channel - not sure about a separate limiter for each channel though - the meters for each channel also seem to show when the gate/compressor is active.
But I am sure Christian will get back to you with hands on info re the above.

Per - look at the quick start guide re start-up and shut down - although recommended to turn x32 on first and off last there is a preference setting to start it in a "Safe Mains Level" mode automatically muting the main LRC levels when booting and prevents any scene loading that would turn up the main levels.
 
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re: X32 Discussion

I was busy the last days with some gigs, two of them I did with the X32 and I had a blast!

@Per: You are right, the channel dynamcis don't have a compressor AND a limiter. Therefore you have to insert the "percision limiter" (which is really good btw) as dedicated FX, or route this channel to a subgroup and limit it there.
As a compensation I can assure you, that the basic channel compressor is nothing but awesome. Ducking, gateting, compression, sidechaining, expanding...it's all there, with lots of parameter-->






To2: If you mute a channel on the X32 it is also muted on the S-16 (AES50). Concerning the P-16 outs, it depends, what kind of signal it is and how it is tapped.
Plain directs out f.e., can be routed pre/post Eq, pre/post fader individualy. You can choose for each of your P-16 inputs from this selection:

Main left
Main right
Main Mono/center
Mix Bus 1-16
Matrix 1-6
Direct out Channel 1-32
Direct out Aux Channel 1-8
Direct out Fx 1-4 (left/right)
Monitor L
Monitor R
Talkback

So you could use a mixbus for submixing a complete drumset and send this to P-16 on channel 1 (or stereo on channel 1+2), and still have plently of sources/channels left for your P-16M personal monitormixer. Also nice, the P-16 signals are embedded in the AES50 stream! You can tap it on the back of the S-16. I used it yesterday to feed the InEar system of the guitarplayer. Grabbed the signal from the S-16, sended into the P-16D distributor (the advantage of the P-16D is, that the P-16M personal mixer is powered through the CAT5 cabel and you don't need a wall wart). The guitar player loved it, that he could adjust his InEar mix on stage and "on the fly"-->



BTW, I used a cheapo 80 meter CAT5 cable and it worked flawless.



To3: Power loss behaviour:
The P16 produces a light popping sound, when power is cut and restored. Nothing to care about, will definitely not harm anyone.
Same behaviour when the Cat5 breaks or is disconnected during use.

S-16:
Removeing CAT5 cable during operation is no problem. No "popping" or any audio artifacs hearable. Time for resyncronisation is less than 3 seconds.
Power loss on the S-16 is a bit more problematic. You will see all active channels clip once, when the power on the X32 or the S-16 is lost.
Good thing is, the clipping noise is a short high frequenzy sound with not much acoustic engery, it will definitely not kill your speakers.
I can assure that, because yesterday we had a power loss on the S-16 during the show, caused by a person,
who thought it would be a good idea to could pull our power cable and than plugin his power adaptor for charging his cell phone.
No joke! So, like with all digital consoles you should an USV…always. Good thing is, when the power is restored,
the X32 and/or S-16 won’t produce any audio artifacts during start up.

@Eric: Switching between scenes is flawless, fast and there is no hearable muting of the audio. There are lots of parameter and channel safes.
The only thing, that I couldn’t find, was a adjustable fade time.-->





The job on friday was also nice, but I had to do it with my old "copper monster" core, because I needed 28 inputs for the band.







Rock on
Christian
 
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re: X32 Discussion

Thanks Christian, maybe not exactly the answe I was hoping for regarding the dynamics, but nonetheless :cry: Yes, a dynamics insert on a subgroup will probably fill my needs.
My question about muting inputs was mainly regarding the mirroring of these inputs going out of the console, i.e. when you are recording using the AES50 or indeed the FW-interface. It is so b.... annoying when you are a tad late in unmuting an input and the recording of that input is ruined as a consequence :blush: It should be possible to send inputs on to the next desk or other device without local mutes affecting the signal. In a setup where you use a second x32 for monitors, and the monitor desk is on stage, it would be easy to use the inputs on that desk and then pass it on through AES50 to FOH, but not if the monitor-guy falls asleep with half the channels muted :lol:

Isn't it awful when the lightguy has a bigger mixer than the soundguy :?~:-?~:???:

Keep up the good work!
 
re: X32 Discussion

Thanks Christian, maybe not exactly the answe I was hoping for regarding the dynamics, but nonetheless :cry: Yes, a dynamics insert on a subgroup will probably fill my needs.
My question about muting inputs was mainly regarding the mirroring of these inputs going out of the console, i.e. when you are recording using the AES50 or indeed the FW-interface. It is so b.... annoying when you are a tad late in unmuting an input and the recording of that input is ruined as a consequence :blush: It should be possible to send inputs on to the next desk or other device without local mutes affecting the signal. In a setup where you use a second x32 for monitors, and the monitor desk is on stage, it would be easy to use the inputs on that desk and then pass it on through AES50 to FOH, but not if the monitor-guy falls asleep with half the channels muted :lol:

Isn't it awful when the lightguy has a bigger mixer than the soundguy :?~:-?~:???:

Keep up the good work!


Concerning the direct outs (via recordingcard, P-16 or AES50), these are per default pre "everything" and will not be muted, when you hit a mute button on the console. So, no need to worry about that:)
 
re: X32 Discussion

Hi Christian,

Where did you get that roll of Cat5 with the input on the side?

Thanks,
Phil

It's basically this one-->

the sssnake Cat 50 - Thomann UK Cyberstore

but mine has a 70 meter length (can't find it in the Thomann store right now). Normally I use a 50 meter ProCab Cable from Adam Hall on a reel, both are not "hi end products", but they are quite flexible to lay out and they work.
I know, there are more rugged cables out there..but they have their price. I also checked the S-16 with the cheapest junk CAT5 cable I could find (30 meter for 3,99 EURO on ebay)...works also perfect concerning the signalflow and audio..but the cable it self really sucks. Very inflexible and ridicolus connectors. The Thomann cable has at least Neutrik connectors.
Christian
 
re: X32 Discussion

It's basically this one-->

the sssnake Cat 50 - Thomann UK Cyberstore

but mine has a 70 meter length (can't find it in the Thomann store right now). Normally I use a 50 meter ProCab Cable from Adam Hall on a reel, both are not "hi end products", but they are quite flexible to lay out and they work.
I know, there are more rugged cables out there..but they have their price. I also checked the S-16 with the cheapest junk CAT5 cable I could find (30 meter for 3,99 EURO on ebay)...works also perfect concerning the signalflow and audio..but the cable it self really sucks. Very inflexible and ridicolus connectors. The Thomann cable has at least Neutrik connectors.
Christian

I guess you'll allways need to have two, maybe not laid out, but at least ready to be rolled out in a hurry? Or three?
 
re: X32 Discussion

@Per: You can run up to three S-16, the P-16 Signals and Midi signals over just one CAT5 cable.

If you like the idea of having a redundant wire/connection, you could lay out one cable running stage left to Foh and another cable running stage right to foh. Use one UPS (best with Ethernt port) for the S-16 and your UPS should provide also the aux-power for the X32 to the FoH position. One cable you could use for the S-16&X32, on the other cable you connect your USV ethernetport with a laptop. If the power fails on stage, the USV jumps in and alerts your PC at Foh. Hit the Panic button (mute all monitor sends and the mains). Wait till the power is restored, unmute and go. When something is wrong with you connection between S-16&X32 you could switch over to the UPS-CAT5 cable and use that for audio. I used a similar setup for my SAC rig the last two years and it helped me to get through the show a few times;-)
Sure, you could go always even futher with redundancy (ok, I'm German..we are prepared for everything by nature)...but the S-16 neither the X32 have spare PSUs, so I think the set up I mentioned above is a sane and inexpensive way to go.
Christian
 
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re: X32 Discussion

Wasn't even considering P16, but it is certainly a good thing that you don't need a second CAT5 for that.
So adding a couple of rackmountable UPS to my shopping-list then, so much for no outboard rack at FOH :cry:
I guess that the MIDI connection between X32 and S16 would let you, at least in theory and with some tweaking, run DMX over MIDI?
I wonder if it would be possible to connect both AES50 ports between stage and mixer, and have the redundancy already connected and up and running with a simple patch recall?

I haven't looked too much into the digital accessories yet, but there must be a market for a multi with 2-4 CAT5 plus a few XLR that will handle mic/line/dmx/aes/ebu, probably cost a fortune though. :)~:)~:smile:
 
re: X32 Discussion

So adding a couple of rackmountable UPS to my shopping-list then, so much for no outboard rack at FOH :cry:

One should be enough, place it on stage and connect your S-16 and X32 in there. It's always better, to get the power for your complete Foh system from one source.

I guess that the MIDI connection between X32 and S16 would let you, at least in theory and with some tweaking, run DMX over MIDI?

I don't think, that this is possible. The Midi port is only for sending Midi signals from the X32 to stage. In can't see, how to get the DMX into the X32.

I wonder if it would be possible to connect both AES50 ports between stage and mixer, and have the redundancy already connected and up and running with a simple patch recall?

By now, that is not possible, because this way both AES50 inputs would sync masters. But the R&D looks into it...maybe they can figure something out.

Christian
 
re: X32 Discussion

One should be enough, place it on stage and connect your S-16 and X32 in there. It's always better, to get the power for your complete Foh system from one source.

Yes, could probably use a long powered-speaker combined cable to take power from stage and have the xlr for DMX.

I don't think, that this is possible. The Midi port is only for sending Midi signals from the X32 to stage. I can't see, how to get the DMX into the X32.

I was thinking it would be possible to patch MIDI signals from the MIDI-IN on the mixer to the MIDI-OUT on the stagebox or indeed vice-versa when wanting to let some MIDI device on stage control something located at FOH.
However, as long as it is possible to use the User-Definable Controls to send MIDI to stage, it opens up some exciting possibilities like implementing a small light controller, send patch changes to stagepianos etc. either by using the UDC directly or include it in scenes.

By now, that is not possible, because this way both AES50 inputs would sync masters. But the R&D looks into it...maybe they can figure something out.

Christian

I guess we will keep R&D busy (and quite often laughing) with suggestions for changes to accommodate all kind of crazy ideas.

Reading through your excellent review certainly didn't sway me from my desire to get this desk, I was only disappointed that the "Aha-effect" wasn't a built-in effect to transform every (male) vocalist into Morten Harket :blush:

Keep up the good work and I'll keep up the silly questions :thumbup:
 
re: X32 Discussion

Would it be possible to send the monitor mixes through wireless router controlled by software? If it can go through ethernet, why not wirelessly via software emulation of the p16 on android?
 
re: X32 Discussion

Would it be possible to send the monitor mixes through wireless router controlled by software? If it can go through ethernet, why not wirelessly via software emulation of the p16 on android?

I don't have a particular application (like monitors) in mind, but I'm very much about having an Android option for remote control.
 
re: X32 Discussion

Would it be possible to send the monitor mixes through wireless router controlled by software? If it can go through ethernet, why not wirelessly via software emulation of the p16 on android?

No experience with this product, but I do know that Audinate recommend you not try this in a Dante network, even if theory says it should work.