X32 Discussion
- Thread starter Rob Spence
- Start date
re: X32 Discussion
Sorry for off topic, but I would like to ask the forum, because I'm curious about this "Preamp-Thing".
I was quite surprised, when reading in this and other US sound/recording forums, that lot's of people seems to be convinced or concerned,
that the micpre preamp design has such a big influence to the overall sound. This topic is actually hardly ever addressed in German pro audio forums, that's why I'm asking.
Anyway, my very own personal opinion is, that the impact of micpres is generally overated.
How to build a propper micpre is common knowledge since the golden 50s. Sure, there are different designs and they do sound different.
But the differences are so subtle to me, that I never would think about it for a second during a live show.
What I belief: The PA system, mircophones, the artist and room acoustic - these things have a hundered times more impact on the general sound of a show, than the build in micpres in a desk.
Even the quality of the artist catering has more impact in my eyes!
Like I said, my very own opinion.8)~
~
Basically I don't care at all, what preamps are build in the X32. I did some X32 measurements with a friend of mine, and these Preamps are close to that what's physically feasible.
Maximum out is +21dBu, maximum Input (before analog clipping) is +23dBu, minimal THD, straight frequenzy response and lot's of headroom (72dB)-->
To me the X32 Preamps are definite not to blame, when the show sucks soundwise.
What do you think?
Christian
Sorry for off topic, but I would like to ask the forum, because I'm curious about this "Preamp-Thing".
I was quite surprised, when reading in this and other US sound/recording forums, that lot's of people seems to be convinced or concerned,
that the micpre preamp design has such a big influence to the overall sound. This topic is actually hardly ever addressed in German pro audio forums, that's why I'm asking.
Anyway, my very own personal opinion is, that the impact of micpres is generally overated.
How to build a propper micpre is common knowledge since the golden 50s. Sure, there are different designs and they do sound different.
But the differences are so subtle to me, that I never would think about it for a second during a live show.
What I belief: The PA system, mircophones, the artist and room acoustic - these things have a hundered times more impact on the general sound of a show, than the build in micpres in a desk.
Even the quality of the artist catering has more impact in my eyes!
Like I said, my very own opinion.8)~
~Basically I don't care at all, what preamps are build in the X32. I did some X32 measurements with a friend of mine, and these Preamps are close to that what's physically feasible.
Maximum out is +21dBu, maximum Input (before analog clipping) is +23dBu, minimal THD, straight frequenzy response and lot's of headroom (72dB)-->
To me the X32 Preamps are definite not to blame, when the show sucks soundwise.
What do you think?
Christian
re: X32 Discussion
Christian, is this the software (XControl) that you used/tested earlier to control the X32 wirelessly? So all you would need is a wireless router, and a PC tablet, and you can then control the console from anywhere in the room using the wireless tablet, is that correct? What was your experience doing this? Was it easy to control the volume faders while mixing on the remote PC tablet? Thanks for any additional info you can provide!
Christian, is this the software (XControl) that you used/tested earlier to control the X32 wirelessly? So all you would need is a wireless router, and a PC tablet, and you can then control the console from anywhere in the room using the wireless tablet, is that correct? What was your experience doing this? Was it easy to control the volume faders while mixing on the remote PC tablet? Thanks for any additional info you can provide!
re: X32 Discussion
Correct! I do have on old IBM/Lenovo X41 tablet PC with an 12,1" display. I used this also for remote controlling my SAC rig. It works very good with the X32! Only thing is, that I need the taskbar to hide, to see the Xcontrol surface complete. No big deal, I can work with it. I use the D-Link 815 router, wich has 2,4 & 5GHz, is cheap and the connection is stable. Even when it drops out, you can instantly reconnect with no audio artifacts or any other odd things.The desk doesn't mind. I use this mainly for walk the venue and setting up monitors on stage during soundcheck.
Correct! I do have on old IBM/Lenovo X41 tablet PC with an 12,1" display. I used this also for remote controlling my SAC rig. It works very good with the X32! Only thing is, that I need the taskbar to hide, to see the Xcontrol surface complete. No big deal, I can work with it. I use the D-Link 815 router, wich has 2,4 & 5GHz, is cheap and the connection is stable. Even when it drops out, you can instantly reconnect with no audio artifacts or any other odd things.The desk doesn't mind. I use this mainly for walk the venue and setting up monitors on stage during soundcheck.
re: X32 Discussion
Wheh you plug it, you must select the view mode to adjust the lignt level, set to 0 by default.
Btw, all lights levels (leds...etc...) settings are working by rough steps more than smoothly, but it works.
Wheh you plug it, you must select the view mode to adjust the lignt level, set to 0 by default.
Btw, all lights levels (leds...etc...) settings are working by rough steps more than smoothly, but it works.
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re: X32 Discussion
Really wish the screen was able to be re-sized, but that is more of a preference.
Really wish the screen was able to be re-sized, but that is more of a preference.
re: X32 Discussion
Certainly not more than an inconvenience, you can just adjust screen resolution on the laptop or PC to suit.
To me it looks ok, but no "Wow!" from me yet, I'll reserve that for the functioning editor and a remote that lets me do everything.
One thing that I would like to hear a concensus on is the way you set the faders. I like to be able to click where I want the fader to move to instead of having to drag the fader. On the Xcontrol, when you click, the cursor will move to the fader so you can drag it, nifty as such, but not my preference when doing setups. Good for live mixing though, you don't want too many jumping faders in a live mix. What does the forum think?
Certainly not more than an inconvenience, you can just adjust screen resolution on the laptop or PC to suit.
To me it looks ok, but no "Wow!" from me yet, I'll reserve that for the functioning editor and a remote that lets me do everything.
One thing that I would like to hear a concensus on is the way you set the faders. I like to be able to click where I want the fader to move to instead of having to drag the fader. On the Xcontrol, when you click, the cursor will move to the fader so you can drag it, nifty as such, but not my preference when doing setups. Good for live mixing though, you don't want too many jumping faders in a live mix. What does the forum think?
re: X32 Discussion
When I first read your post I thought you meant while mixing live... heheheh, that would not be good.
It should be an option when editing setups pre show.
When I first read your post I thought you meant while mixing live... heheheh, that would not be good.
It should be an option when editing setups pre show.
re: X32 Discussion
As an experienced SAC user I can asure you: You don't want that!
One click in the wrong area, and all hell breaks loose. The Xcontrol fader behave exactly like in SAC, which is in my eyes the best/secure way for live mixing.
Christian
As an experienced SAC user I can asure you: You don't want that!
One click in the wrong area, and all hell breaks loose. The Xcontrol fader behave exactly like in SAC, which is in my eyes the best/secure way for live mixing.
Christian
re: X32 Discussion
Right I get that. I am just saying it would be nice to be able to adjust the size without changing screen resolution. I will be doing most of my off line editing from home and that computer has a 24" monitor and I would prefer not to have to adjust that just to see what I am doing.
Again purely a preference. In the case of running the software at the job site, it will be ok at the size that it is.
Right I get that. I am just saying it would be nice to be able to adjust the size without changing screen resolution. I will be doing most of my off line editing from home and that computer has a 24" monitor and I would prefer not to have to adjust that just to see what I am doing.
Again purely a preference. In the case of running the software at the job site, it will be ok at the size that it is.
re: X32 Discussion
Millions of dollar has been invested into advertising arguing otherwise.
I think there are marketing reasons to promote the analog mic preamp technology as being different, when feeding a digital path ASSumed to be identical. The truth is probably somewhere in between.
JR
Generally operated in their linear region there is very little sonic difference between competitive preamps.
Millions of dollar has been invested into advertising arguing otherwise.
agreed
I would refine that slightly. Transformer less preamps delivering SOTA did not generally become available until the late '70s/early 80s due to discrete device technology. Today off the shelf ICs can deliver SOTA performance without transformers.
Speakers and microphones vary orders of magnitude more than electronic paths. Rooms matter for live SR.What I belief: The PA system, mircophones, the artist and room acoustic - these things have a hundered times more impact on the general sound of a show, than the build in micpres in a desk.
Even the quality of the artist catering has more impact in my eyes!
Like I said, my very own opinion.8)~
I think there are marketing reasons to promote the analog mic preamp technology as being different, when feeding a digital path ASSumed to be identical. The truth is probably somewhere in between.
JR
re: X32 Discussion
Hi Caleb,
Technically they ARE Midas preamps - designed by Midas and made in the same factory as the Pro Series. I'm sure there are some tradeoffs in the preamp components to meet the aggressive price point, but as Christian said earlier, the preamps are only a very small part of the equation. Differences you may have heard are likely more than just a preamp variation, but you know this already. I'm sure they'll be at least on par with competing products, which is good enough for its market IMO.
I'm sure Behringer has no plan for x32 to take over from Pro1 or other higher quality desks. That's not the X32's market or design goal. I'll bet it will rule over the sub 10K digital products though, and even though you like GLD it will probably eat up some GLD sales a bit too.
FYI for Canada, I've been told 2 more weeks and I should have mine.
Hi Caleb,
Technically they ARE Midas preamps - designed by Midas and made in the same factory as the Pro Series. I'm sure there are some tradeoffs in the preamp components to meet the aggressive price point, but as Christian said earlier, the preamps are only a very small part of the equation. Differences you may have heard are likely more than just a preamp variation, but you know this already. I'm sure they'll be at least on par with competing products, which is good enough for its market IMO.
I'm sure Behringer has no plan for x32 to take over from Pro1 or other higher quality desks. That's not the X32's market or design goal. I'll bet it will rule over the sub 10K digital products though, and even though you like GLD it will probably eat up some GLD sales a bit too.
FYI for Canada, I've been told 2 more weeks and I should have mine.
re: X32 Discussion
Just today I bought a littlite lamp for my X32! The board takes a 4-pin, 12V lamp. 5 watt bulb. I got one with a straight plug, since the jack is on the top surface of the board. I got the 18" model, and it works great. Love the fact that it is dimmable, too. The more I work with this board, the more impressed I am with its features and ease of use.
Just today I bought a littlite lamp for my X32! The board takes a 4-pin, 12V lamp. 5 watt bulb. I got one with a straight plug, since the jack is on the top surface of the board. I got the 18" model, and it works great. Love the fact that it is dimmable, too. The more I work with this board, the more impressed I am with its features and ease of use.
re: X32 Discussion
I want better speakers and better microphones, more subs, more lights.
The rest? If it works it is probably good enough :razz:.
I believe I'm the weakest link in the chain, possibly along with the performer sometimes :twisted:, and I've certainly heard crappy sound coming out of multi million dollar rigs that can't be attributed to the quality of any component in the signal chain except for the talent and the guys in shorts.
I want better speakers and better microphones, more subs, more lights.
The rest? If it works it is probably good enough :razz:.
I believe I'm the weakest link in the chain, possibly along with the performer sometimes :twisted:, and I've certainly heard crappy sound coming out of multi million dollar rigs that can't be attributed to the quality of any component in the signal chain except for the talent and the guys in shorts.