X32 Discussion

re: X32 Discussion

please let us cycle through tabs and/or (preferably 'and') give us autorepeat for the arrow keys

You mean...

If you're on the first tab, and you press "left," it should move to the last tab, rather than doing nothing?

Or, if you're on the last tab, and you press "right," it should move to the first tab, rather than doing nothing?

And, the ability to hold a button down, without having to push multiple times?

Interesting, from a UI design perspective... My wife's Samsung phones "loops" through the screens. My Motorola phone doesn't.

To each his own, but I would prefer to see it loop through. I know exactly where I am, and where I want to go.
 
re: X32 Discussion

You mean...

If you're on the first tab, and you press "left," it should move to the last tab, rather than doing nothing?

Or, if you're on the last tab, and you press "right," it should move to the first tab, rather than doing nothing?

And, the ability to hold a button down, without having to push multiple times?

Interesting, from a UI design perspective... My wife's Samsung phones "loops" through the screens. My Motorola phone doesn't.

To each his own, but I would prefer to see it loop through. I know exactly where I am, and where I want to go.

That's exactly what i meant.
 
re: X32 Discussion

I suspect Uli has a mature engineering change process in place

I don't think it's mature. New plant, bought Midas and KT relatively recently… It'll be at least a couple more years before there's any strong level of maturity.

As an aside, I'm a little leery of the firmware changes coming out so quickly. A "simple" change in one area can often have an unintended consequence elsewhere.

For example, a UI has a certain flow to it. If a simple change is made (like being able to loop through tabs), it might break the UI flow in another area where it’s not so simple to change. Thus, the UI becomes a hodgepodge mess, where you begin to think, “What in the world were they thinking?” (Like a house that has been remodeled, and it’s very evident. The flow is broken. A great home addition is one where you can’t tell what was original, and what was added or changed. The house maintains its flow, as the original designer intended.)

Also, if there are automated test processes in place, those are designed tests. The test designers make certain assumptions based upon how a product was designed to be used. That often differs from how a product is actually used. With the (relatively) complex routing options in the X32, it's very likely the X32 will be utilized in ways engineers did not think of.

For example, I'm attempting to do "aux-fed subs" (which is not uncommon) without outboard gear, and there are a couple of hiccups with that.

I wouldn't read too much, either pro or con into this. This is still early days and we need to see more gigs under the belt to get a true read on long term robustness of these units. With complex new product roll-outs "stuff" always happens. If this is the worst of it, they did pretty good.

I understand what you mean. But, even had the problem/solution turned out to be much more complex... The ability to take a public forum comment, and turn that into action, in that time frame, shows there are people and processes in place that are atypical for many companies.

Thanks for your insight. Very interesting and good post.
 
re: X32 Discussion

Please please please give us a 96k mode so I call sell off my MOTU rig.
I'd be fine with only 16 channels @96k if it has to be that way.

FWIW your X32 probably sounds better at 48 than the Motu at 96 and the X32 has very low latency drivers too..... Forgive me for yet another post about how most people do not need 96K. They just THINK they do because they read about it somewhere on the internet or in a magazine, and end up sacrificing useful channels....
 
re: X32 Discussion

FWIW your X32 probably sounds better at 48 than the Motu at 96 and the X32 has very low latency drivers too..... Forgive me for yet another post about how most people do not need 96K. They just THINK they do because they read about it somewhere on the internet or in a magazine, and end up sacrificing useful channels....


Well, forgive me for responding again...
But I can definitely tell the difference in recordings made with the 896mk3 at 48 or 96k...mainly with certain plugins. And since I have so many recordings already made at 96k, I'd like to use the X32 with those projects to continue... Not that 48k is horrible, it sounds great with the X32, it's just being able to continue existing projects where the problem comes in. And my 96k MOTU projects in logic have HALF the latency of the X32 at 48k.

I do agree for the most part that the 96k advantage is usually just marketing spiel.
 
re: X32 Discussion

Laptop with xicontrol software installed - check
usb cable for remote control laptop - check
laptop with FireWire and cubase - check
ipad with xicontrol installed - check
usb stick with firmware update - check
flightcase - check
50m cat5 cable - check
gigs booked - check

Now what am I missing ???

Oh yeah , a x32and 2 s16's? :(~:-(~:sad:

Still none in the uk but I've got a delivery date of 10/9/12 , I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas lol
 
re: X32 Discussion

FWIW your X32 probably sounds better at 48 than the Motu at 96 and the X32 has very low latency drivers too..... Forgive me for yet another post about how most people do not need 96K. They just THINK they do because they read about it somewhere on the internet or in a magazine, and end up sacrificing useful channels....

Why this aversion to 96KHz? So you only get half the channels, big deal! You are not sacrificing anything, you get a 32 channel 48KHz live mixer and a 16 channel 96Khz studio recording mixer and interface for the price of one. OK, so the extra selling point plus the extra development effort on Behringers part might put the price up if they don't decide to just sell the firmware upgrade to those willing to pay, but either way it makes sense. If you need to record more than 16 channels at once you obviously have to look for a bigger machine or settle for the lower sampling rate.
Yes you can make good recordings with 44.1 KHz, in fact some notable recordings were made with a noisy four track, a couple of Unidynes and a makeshift studio in a living room. Why bother with colour and sound, some classics are dusty old black and white silent movies.
 
re: X32 Discussion

How so? Are you considering system DSP as "outboard gear"?

Just need a 24 dB/oct filter for the L/R and M/C buses, and a delay.

Challenge is creating the filters. The basic "cut" filters aren't 4th order. 2nd, probably. Maybe 3rd. You can create multiple filters with the same settings, that appear to steepen the slope, though.

If I keep my outboard crossover and (minor) EQ, I have another A/D and D/A in the signal chain. I can avoid that on L/R by using AES/EBU between the X32 and the processor. But, my subs would still go through D/A on the X32, and then A/D and D/A on the processor.

The other item is more of a workflow/UI issue, that I don't want to mention until I've done some more testing.

Eric
 
re: X32 Discussion

Just need a 24 dB/oct filter for the L/R and M/C buses, and a delay.


Challenge is creating the filters. The basic "cut" filters aren't 4th order. 2nd, probably. Maybe 3rd. You can create multiple filters with the same settings, that appear to steepen the slope, though.

If I keep my outboard crossover and (minor) EQ, I have another A/D and D/A in the signal chain. I can avoid that on L/R by using AES/EBU between the X32 and the processor. But, my subs would still go through D/A on the X32, and then A/D and D/A on the processor.

The other item is more of a workflow/UI issue, that I don't want to mention until I've done some more testing.

Eric

The dedicated channel Low Cut is 4th order, the cut filters in the 4/6 band EQ are 2nd order and you can use the matrix to double the slope

Uwe
 
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re: X32 Discussion

DSC_2902.jpgDSC_2908.jpg

The manager of Guitar Center called me and let me know that X32 came in. I was so excited to try it. I have to say that looking at the mixer for the first time is impressive. Nice size, knobs feel good, fader caps are not like SSL but they work well. No signal showing up on any channels meter with nothing plug in.

On each channel I like that above the meter signal, there is a compressor light that tells you when it is being used on a channel. Also the menu screen when set to showing all the signal meters also shows the compressor signal on each channel. Very nice. The EQ sounds better than the built in EQ in Cubase. It has a smoother sound, sort of reminds me of the UAD Cambridge EQ. Compressor also is better than the standard compressor in Cubase. Bread and butter effects are also very good. For studio use, there is no reason to use third party plug ins unless you want a specific character they offer.

There are a lot of questions I have with routing and how things work though. It seems inserts are only on FX 1-4. FX 5-7 does not give you the option of insert but channels and 1-4 has inserts and buses. Chorus and some other effects only appeared to show up in FX 1-4. I don't know why? Linking channels worked very well. Moving one fader moves the fader next to it. Did not figure out how to do group mutes yet. Waiting for the full version of the manual.

Note on the one photo above that they used white tape to label two channels since they did not know how to label the tracks. I went to directions I received on the Behringer forum on how to label tracks. I wish there were a couple of less steps to do this. When labeling the channels, the blue color makes it a little hard to read. The stock yellow type of channel color I like best. I like that when you label a track it still shows you the channel number above the label you created. The store only has the quick guide for the mixer. I advised them that the full manual should be released this week. They were running 1.02 and told him how easy it is to update the firmware which he will do. Controlling the pre, EQ, dynamic controls and bus is pretty simple. The store had the speakers hooked up to the control room outs so when you solo a button, only that channel is heard. I told them I believe output channel 15 and 16 is for the main out's on it.
 
re: X32 Discussion

The dedicated channel Low Cut is 4th order, the cut filters in the 4/6 band EQ are 2nd order and you can use the matrix to double the slope

Can you double-check that on the graphical representation on the screen, or verify the filter?

I don't think this is representing a 4th order slope. With a 98 Hz crossover point, this is only showing about -12 dB of cut by the time we reach 50 Hz.

Unless I'm completely off, from 100 Hz to 50 Hz is one octave, and by 50 Hz, this should be showing -24 dB of cut at around 50 Hz.

I think this graphical representation is showing a 2nd order filter.

Unless I'm missing something, either the graphical representation is wrong, or the filter is indeed a 2nd order.

Slope.jpg
 
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re: X32 Discussion

The dedicated channel Low Cut is 4th order, the cut filters in the 4/6 band EQ are 2nd order and you can use the matrix to double the slope

Oh, wait... The channel dedicated low-cut slopes are 24 dB. The buss low-cut slope option is 12 dB.

(I'll leave my other post. Might help someone else.)

Any idea what the logic was in the decision to set them there?

I would have expected 12 to 18 on the channel, and either the buss to match, or 24 (if it was thought the busses could actually be setup to behave as a crossover).

Just interested in how that came to be.
 
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re: X32 Discussion

Note on the one photo above that they used white tape to label two channels since they did not know how to label the tracks.

I continue to believe that the scribble-strip setup should just be on another tab, probably right after the "config" tab.
 
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re: X32 Discussion

Note on the one photo above that they used white tape to label two channels since they did not know how to label the tracks.

Same when I went to my local GC. I ended up pressing random buttons until I was able to figure it out, after which I showed the GC guys. I kind of agree with Eric Hill on having a separate tab just for that, or maybe have it so that you have hit the "utility" button on the Home tab instead of the Config tab.

I wonder if it would be possible to assign one of the "assignable" buttons to pop-up the scribble-strip editor.
 
re: X32 Discussion

Uli, would like to make a suggestion inspired by the discussion above:


Placing a module on FX X-32 high pass filter and low pass with full settings (frequency and attenuation db / octave). That does not believe that the market would take that processors occupy boxes but would meet emergencies with the mixer itself.
 
re: X32 Discussion

Hi guys, thanks for your help, this should be the official X32 forum...Well my X32 just got to my home today from local GC, unfortunately I won't be there until thursday, but believe me I won't sleep that day, I just wanted to ask the forum, what process should I follow in order to fully test the board ( To avoid the problems some have found here and be able to go back to GC to pick up a perfect one)..
Great work Behringer!!! Hope it works as promised!!
 
re: X32 Discussion

So from what I gather, I must have the first retail X32 in the UK...
The UK retailers seriously dropped the ball with this one. I too placed a pre-order in good time and once the release date came and went, I would phone regularly to get updates. Each time I was told that they really didn't know when they were going to get the desks in, although they think it would be late September.
Not good enough.
This being a business decision, I decided to take mine elsewhere.
One e-mail to an overseas retail establishment (no, not the German one) confirmed stock availability, price match with the lowest advertised price and free delivery. I ordered by reply and four days later received my nice shiny new X32 by UPS.
Fast forward a few days and a couple of sessions of use and all I can say is 'Wow'. It really does all the stuff that they said it would.

It's intuitive enough to get into without the manual, although I couldn't figure out how to label the channels from the front panel. That isn't in any version of the manual on-line or not. I had to hook up a laptop and run the XControl Editor. Setting that up was a breeze as well. The software is well laid out and unlike the 01v96 Studio Manager, you can view a different screen remotely to what you have selected on the console. Labelling channels with the remote software is so easy, I still haven't bothered to figure out how to do it from the console!
I still can't register my purchase online though...
The 32 channel recording feature was easy enough to set up once I'd figured out where the desk was connecting to Cubase. I was able to record 32 channels in the background and also run XControl from the same laptop. Now all I need is a bigger hard drive!

In action, the console is well laid out and from my experience with other consoles, it feels like a cross between an LS9 and an iLive. That's an observation, not an accusation. The unit is solid enough. Yes, the end cheeks are plastic, but they feel solid rather than flimsy and thin. The buttons feel like the non latching FX buttons on a Yamaha MG32/14FX.

Where this system comes into its own is when you bring the P16M monitor mixers into the equation.
Yes, there are 16 bus outputs on the desk, but there are also 16 dedicated outputs for the P16 system. These can be made up from any of the direct inputs or mix groups. The P16s themselves are a breeze to configure. I've not got as far as actually using one properly yet (I have 5 for my band), but I've managed to get the pre-configuration setup and ready for our next production rehearsal.

The cons? Well there are a couple.
There are only 32 channels available (OK 40 with the aux inputs).
It's not expandable. Once you fill your 32 channels (and I have), there's nowhere to go. Yes you can have four S16s connected (apparently) but you'll only ever be able to access 32 channels at a time. There's no extra layer.
Really they're minor gripes, as I knew it was 32 channel only when I bought it. If I'd have wanted a 64 channel desk or an expandable one, I would have bought something else.

That said, with a feature set comparable to a LS9 and even the iLive (GLD), the X32 takes the phrase 'value for money' to another level.
It makes those other systems seem overpriced.
With the soon to be released S16 digital snake system, that puts a full X32, digital snake AND personal monitoring system at less than the price of a LS9-16.
With the nearest comparable system (the GLD without any Aviom bits) priced at over twice the X32, S16, P16 package price, I can't see how LS9/GLD sales won't be affected by this (it's certainly hit the seconhand market. I sold my 01v96VCM for peanuts compared to what I could have got for it earlier in the year).
To all the anti-Behringer 'snobs' (I still am one myself. I won't touch the DI boxes and although not directly affected by reliability issues on other equipment and I will freely admit to being in two minds about the reliability of this one before buying it), try one out. Compare the X32 to the GLD and LS9 in the flesh before berating it. OK, so it might not be up to Avid or Digico levels, but up against those other two? In a lot of ways it beats them both hands down.
On price alone, no-one else can compete.

No, I don't work for Behringer and I won't be out in public with my X32 until mid-October.... :)~:)~:smile:

KB.
 
re: X32 Discussion

So from what I gather, I must have the first retail X32 in the UK...
The UK retailers seriously dropped the ball with this one. I too placed a pre-order in good time and once the release date came and went, I would phone regularly to get updates. Each time I was told that they really didn't know when they were going to get the desks in, although they think it would be late September.
Not good enough.
This being a business decision, I decided to take mine elsewhere.
One e-mail to an overseas retail establishment (no, not the German one) confirmed stock availability, price match with the lowest advertised price and free delivery. I ordered by reply and four days later received my nice shiny new X32 by UPS.
Fast forward a few days and a couple of sessions of use and all I can say is 'Wow'. It really does all the stuff that they said it would.

It's intuitive enough to get into without the manual, although I couldn't figure out how to label the channels from the front panel. That isn't in any version of the manual on-line or not. I had to hook up a laptop and run the XControl Editor. Setting that up was a breeze as well. The software is well laid out and unlike the 01v96 Studio Manager, you can view a different screen remotely to what you have selected on the console. Labelling channels with the remote software is so easy, I still haven't bothered to figure out how to do it from the console!
I still can't register my purchase online though...
The 32 channel recording feature was easy enough to set up once I'd figured out where the desk was connecting to Cubase. I was able to record 32 channels in the background and also run XControl from the same laptop. Now all I need is a bigger hard drive!

In action, the console is well laid out and from my experience with other consoles, it feels like a cross between an LS9 and an iLive. That's an observation, not an accusation. The unit is solid enough. Yes, the end cheeks are plastic, but they feel solid rather than flimsy and thin. The buttons feel like the non latching FX buttons on a Yamaha MG32/14FX.

Where this system comes into its own is when you bring the P16M monitor mixers into the equation.
Yes, there are 16 bus outputs on the desk, but there are also 16 dedicated outputs for the P16 system. These can be made up from any of the direct inputs or mix groups. The P16s themselves are a breeze to configure. I've not got as far as actually using one properly yet (I have 5 for my band), but I've managed to get the pre-configuration setup and ready for our next production rehearsal.

The cons? Well there are a couple.
There are only 32 channels available (OK 40 with the aux inputs).
It's not expandable. Once you fill your 32 channels (and I have), there's nowhere to go. Yes you can have four S16s connected (apparently) but you'll only ever be able to access 32 channels at a time. There's no extra layer.
Really they're minor gripes, as I knew it was 32 channel only when I bought it. If I'd have wanted a 64 channel desk or an expandable one, I would have bought something else.

That said, with a feature set comparable to a LS9 and even the iLive (GLD), the X32 takes the phrase 'value for money' to another level.
It makes those other systems seem overpriced.
With the soon to be released S16 digital snake system, that puts a full X32, digital snake AND personal monitoring system at less than the price of a LS9-16.
With the nearest comparable system (the GLD without any Aviom bits) priced at over twice the X32, S16, P16 package price, I can't see how LS9/GLD sales won't be affected by this (it's certainly hit the seconhand market. I sold my 01v96VCM for peanuts compared to what I could have got for it earlier in the year).
To all the anti-Behringer 'snobs' (I still am one myself. I won't touch the DI boxes and although not directly affected by reliability issues on other equipment and I will freely admit to being in two minds about the reliability of this one before buying it), try one out. Compare the X32 to the GLD and LS9 in the flesh before berating it. OK, so it might not be up to Avid or Digico levels, but up against those other two? In a lot of ways it beats them both hands down.
On price alone, no-one else can compete.

No, I don't work for Behringer and I won't be out in public with my X32 until mid-October.... :)~:)~:smile:

KB.

Its easy to set the channel strips press the view button on preamp/config and than utility
for the DCA strips press setup and go to DCA groups than press utility

jeanke