X32 Discussion

[Karl Barnes]

re: X32 Discussion

Its easy to set the channel strips press the view button on preamp/config and than utility
for the DCA strips press setup and go to DCA groups than press utility

jeanke

Yep, easy when you know how, but it wasn't immediately obvious to me at the time.
It wasn't a show stopper for me as I had the XControl software running which was and is quicker to use for this.
At the time it was frustrating that this one feature was not as immediate to figure out as the rest of it.
If you read the latest SOS review (the Mike Senior one), even they had to phone Behringer for help for that.
Every OS has it's annoyancies. This one is no different, and at the end of the day it's cosmetic rather than functional.
Worst case scenario would be to break out the label tape and a Sharpie to hark back to the good old days...!

KB.

 

[Yonatan Pandelaki]

re: X32 Discussion

Thanks guys, especially Christian Boche for your informations this far, and Uli Behringer for the quick responds.

As i proposed the X32 to our band's tech guys, their concern was, 'How easy is it to change spare parts?
Are the components modular or do they sit on one big 'motherboard'?'
I read somewhere about new Service Centers in Vegas and UK for this new mixer.
We're from Germany, so will any repairment be sent to UK or is there also any reliable Service Center in Germany?

Now the next question is something i don't understand myself, but one of the guys told me something about a disadvantage of AES50, i think he meant the unability to integrate it with the existing local network.
Now i'm asking you guys, what is he talking about? Is there any disadvantage you know, and what are the advantages?
I've also found this : http://www.aes-media.org/sections/u...lker - Applications in Live Convert Sound.pdf
But as i told you i have no idea, can someone explain in common language? Thank you.

Oh, last two questions, is there still any known bug after 1.07? I saw a report about crashing systems before the update, especially when handling with presets.
Does anyone experiencing any of it?

P.S to Uli: When your devs somehow manage to create an Android app with simple controls it would be really great.

 

[Greg Hyson]

re: X32 Discussion

Another update. Got the P16M and P16D system in and everything is working flawlessly. I really do love the ability to have a personal monitor mix at will.

LCD scribble strips:

I thought these looked spectacular at first with some of them having a slightly different contrast than others but now I am noticing a couple of them are severely different in contrast. If I set my contrast at around "34" my assign lcd below the "2" knob turns white while the others are perfectly readable. If I set the contrast to 70 then they are all readable but now the other LCD scribble start to turn white. Anyone else notice this? I did leave my X32 on for a few days but I don't see how this would cause a problem. I just honestly don't know if they were like this always or just until today.




Brightness at 60 Contrast at 34:

Brightness at 60 Contrast at 70:

Greg

 

[Greg Hyson]

re: X32 Discussion

There's something else I noticed.....

How is everyone's calibration with their faders? Mine don't match the painted dB markings with the screen readout. For instance, if I set the fader to "0" visually when I go to check in in my channel's information screen it reads more like "+.5" When I adjust it on the screen to "0" the fader does not visually line up the markings on the panel.

I don't want to sound like I am complaining but am curious if my console has more issues than usual. If the fader issue is common across the board then I think it would be a simple firmware update. The LCD issue kind of concerns me. I hope to hear feedback from others.


Greg

 

[Eric Eskam]

re: X32 Discussion

Hello! Now let me start by stating I'm just a volunteer with my church and definitely an amateur - I know enough to be dangerous 8)~~ I drive past my local Guitar Center on the days I have to go into the office, and yesterday was one of those days. So on the way home instead of sitting in traffic, I stopped in. Lo and behold, they had an X32 sitting in one of the back demo rooms. I played with it for over an hour (OK, it may have been two) - and I'm impressed. It's enough like an analog board that I think our other volunteers will have minimal issues transitioning to it, but it has all of the benefits of a digital board that we desire. And the price - wow! I did crank the gain and otherwise try to abuse the 16/32 channel and it didn't have any issues, so this board at least was in good shape. I ran into no other issues - one thing that was a little annoying - while in the home tab for a channel, you can use the right most knob to dial in the fader level and the fader on the board tracks it - it was a little jerky and didn't precisely match the UI in the screen. Minor quibble, but that was the only thing that really made me go "hmmm" as far as quality. Again, for the mix of features and price that's pretty minor!

For me the motorized faders/scribble strips are huge, followed by the the mute groups. Yes, some parts of the UI are not as obvious as one may like - but when you think about all that is packed into this little console, I think they did a pretty outstanding job! Once I discovered the UTILITY key on the display is similar to a function key that brings up additional context-sensitive options, it was pretty quick to discover the scribble strip editor and some other features that had up until then eluded me. The manual will help, but I don't think it's a show stopper and I'm glad they decided to not hold shipping of it up for the manual! I started going through all the screens pressing UTILITY to see what it did. I also had some fun and customized the scribble strip - I'm sure the Guitar Center guys will love that! Oh well, it's not like it's hard to reset everything! Speaking of hidden options....

Did not figure out how to do group mutes yet.

I saw this in one of the video's when someone was showing how to assign channels to DCA groups - hold down the button for the mute group you want to assign channels to, then press mute on the channels you want to be in that mute group - it's a toggle on/off. Release the mute group button when you are done. If the channels are in a row, you can just slide across the mute buttons in one motion - smooth! If you view the channel's Home tab, you can see the mute group(s) that channel is a member of in the lower right corner. See the below screen shot of that since mute groups are pretty important for us and we use them all the time. Our current board has four, and going to six will be a welcome luxury! I didn't find a way to see an overview of all the mute groups in one screen - but it sounds like once you have the software on your computer more ways to display thing are offered on the computer based controller software. Since this console is about 1/3 the size of the Crestwood analog desk we have now (at least 64 channels, and no we don't use them all) adding a computer - or even two - for audio to the booth will not be an issue!

EDIT: In looking at the picture you can see the mute groups indicated in the lower right and you can also assign mute groups to a channel with the third knob from the right.



I also just noticed that it mirrors the scribble strip and color in the upper left - nice! I wish the color colored the whole square instead of just the band to the right (the channel color was white if it's not obvious).

EDIT - there is a potential "gotcha" that I must have blundered around by accident - from the new manual:

Assigning Mute Groups
The mute group assignment process is similar to the above, but is designedwith an additional precaution in order to prevent accidental muting of channelsduring a show. To assign input/output channels to one of the six mute groups(controlled by the buttons located to the right of the Main LR fader) you needto first switch on the Mute Grp button next to the main display. While holdingthe desired Mute Group button, select the desired input and output channels,which will now be assigned to the Mute Group. When you are done withassignment, switch off Mute Grp at the display, and the 6 Mute Group buttonswill work as intended.

I must have had the button next to the display on because I was playing with the mute groups - beware!
/EDIT

A few other things I observed that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere - it appears that there is a limit to 100 scenes per "Show", but I'm imagining the only limit to "Shows" is space on your USB storage.



I liked how in the controls for Scenes on the board you could step through scenes (with up/down buttons) and fire them with one click (Go button - once you disable confirmations in the setup). If you pick the wrong scene, there is a handy undo button to get you back quickly. Excellent workflow!

In just reading threads here and elsewhere, I was confused on the way the effects worked. Seeing it in person drives home that there are indeed 8 EFX "Processors". It's easiest (for me) to think of them as individual external boxes. Signals can be routed to them as if they were external processors, but there isn't an EFX processor on each channel, for example as some have asked. I think some other people have tried to explain this but for me it didn't really sink in until I touched it. Seeing is believing



Some of the screens have block diagrams on them which is a nice touch.



Overall, the display is very crisp and well laid out. I like that it's NOT a touch screen - once you get used to the dials and clicking dials, you can move pretty quickly and smoothly through the options. The physical dials and clear visual indicators are going to be way quicker to manipulate in the throws of a live performance than fiddling with a touch screen.

Now I just have to figure out how to scrounge up funds before the couple of units they have in stock disappear!

 

[Eric Eskam]

re: X32 Discussion

I don't want to sound like I am complaining but am curious if my console has more issues than usual. If the fader issue is common across the board then I think it would be a simple firmware update. The LCD issue kind of concerns me. I hope to hear feedback from others.

The one I was playing with at Guitar Center only showed an issue with faders if you tried to adjust the gain from the knob under the screen as I indicated in my post. Otherwise the faders on the boards seemed to be pretty accurate. The console they had didn't seem to have the LCD issue - there might have been one where the contrast was a little off compared to the others, but nothing as dramatic as what you are seeing - hopefully there's a future firmware fix where you can calibrate the contrast of the LCDs independently - it looks like the LCD is fine, just out of step with the others.

 

[Eric Eskam]

re: X32 Discussion

As i proposed the X32 to our band's tech guys, their concern was, 'How easy it is to change spare parts?
Are they modular or do they sit on one big 'motherboard'?'

At this price if they are that concerned just have a spare board. Seriously. But in reading through threads and seeing pictures of the insides, it looks like it is modular. If you go back a page or two in talking about he channel 16/32 problem someone (Christian?) mentioned it's built in blocks of 8.

I read somewhere about new Service Centers in Vegas and UK for this new mixer.
We're from Germany, so will any repairment be sent to UK or is there also any reliable Service Center in Germany?

Either in this thread or the introductions thread focused on Uli, he mentioned that they took the old Midas manufacturing space (edit: in Germany) and repurposed it as break/fix/repair/service. Uli and other Music Group folks have repeatedly stated that they intend to repair and not replace as much as in the past as they have found most of the time equipment turned in for repair is perfectly fine. I can believe that having done IT support either directly or as running large help desks for over 20 years now.

Now the next question is something i don't understand myself, but one of the guys told me something about a disadvantage of AES50, i think he meant the unability to integrate it with the existing local network.

Depending on where they are going that can be a religious argument. I dunno, for me it's pretty moot. I can get the X32, their digital snake and in ear monitors for LESS than what most comparable boards cost by themselves. Since we don't have in ear monitors and are analog, I have no legacy gear to worry about and going all Behringer isn't a big deal. Maybe it's a glib answer if you have legacy gear tied together with something like DANTE. They need to be more specific 8)~~ The X32 will easily integrate with your computer network - just look at all the posts on iPad and PC control.

Oh, last two questions, is there still any known bug after 1.07? I saw a report about crashing systems before the update, especially when handling with presets. Does anyone experiencing any of it?

It's a BRAND NEW platform. And a complex one, at an until now unheard of price point. There are going to be issues - I don't care if it was Apple, BMW or who. It's just the way things are. If you aren't willing to be flexible and work around issues as they crop up then go with a more established board. That's my advice for ANY manufacturer. It always amuses me when people who have no patience and just want things to work flawlessly out of the box with no excuses ever insist on being on the cutting edge of any technology. It's just not a realistic or practical attitude. Having said that, go follow the posts from Christian - he's had an earlier console for a while and beat on it pretty good and it's given him relatively few fits, so I'm not overly concerned. If you or your band mates are highly risk adverse, this probably isn't the console for you just yet. Let it bake a little bit more.

Me, especially for the price, as soon as I can swing the funds I'm going to risk it 8)~~

P.S to Uli: When your devs somehow manage to create an Android app with simple controls it would be re ally great.

I'm not anti-android - my work phone is Android and it works fine - heck there are actually parts of it I like better than my iPhone and I honestly didn't expect that when I first got it (I guess I shouldn't be surprised, I am a geek at heart). But realize, for now, iOS is probably going to be where companies focus first. More people with iOS devices use their devices as smart phones despite Androids larger unit volume and that's where companies tend to see the majority of activity - and thus that drives their priorities. And whether Android fans want to admit it or not, the plethora of different models of Android devices compounded by many devices being stranded on older OS versions (Motorola, I'm looking at your sad, pathetic record but they are unfortunately not alone) complicate development further. Apple tends to have one or two devices per year, and supports them longer than most Android manufacturers. They have also structured their ecosystem (small number of devices, over the air updates, seamless experience) that within months of a major OS release, the vast majority of their devices are on the same OS - that's a huge advantage!

That's the practical reality, not one driven by fanboi love or bias. Companies like Uli's have limited resources - there just trying to get the base product off the ground and get the manual written at this point :lol: I'm sure they will come out with an Android app eventually - but all of the above are definitely contributors. Please be patient - many of the issues they face are out of their control. If anything, you need to be upset at Google and the phone manufacturers for not helping Android have a more united front on OS versions and base functionality. Given so many Android devices tend to be more "value oriented", and that there are so many variations from manufacturers, and that carriers and retailers would rather just sell you a new device, there seems to be little incentive unfortunately. Thankfully with Jelly Bean, the core Android experience seems to have matured enough that hopefully things like touch wiz, sense and moto blur will fade away. I fear it's going to be like crack - with no other way to differentiate themselves, manufacturers may feel compelled to hang on. Ugh...

 

[Yonatan Pandelaki]

re: X32 Discussion

Thank you very much for your helpful reply Eric.

Yes you're absolutely right, at the price of a complete GLD system, you can actually even grab 3 X32s, and keep the other 2 in the closet as backups. :razz:

About the Android thing, i'm aware of the Android problem, with its hundreds of OS versions. And to be honest, i forgot, with the P16 System, nobody really need an Iphone or Android monitor app anymore. In live situation, I'd rather tweak on real knobs than slide around on a screen.

 

[Jeff Babcock]

re: X32 Discussion

Why this aversion to 96KHz? So you only get half the channels, big deal! You are not sacrificing anything, you get a 32 channel 48KHz live mixer and a 16 channel 96Khz studio recording mixer and interface for the price of one. OK, so the extra selling point plus the extra development effort on Behringers part might put the price up if they don't decide to just sell the firmware upgrade to those willing to pay, but either way it makes sense. If you need to record more than 16 channels at once you obviously have to look for a bigger machine or settle for the lower sampling rate.
Yes you can make good recordings with 44.1 KHz, in fact some notable recordings were made with a noisy four track, a couple of Unidynes and a makeshift studio in a living room. Why bother with colour and sound, some classics are dusty old black and white silent movies.

My aversion to 96kHz is that it pulls the development team away from other tasks which have the potential to have more useful benefit for users.

FWIW - Yes, I have recorded at 96K. I can tell the difference. But to me the difference is not "better", it is just "different". I hear as much or possibly more difference between various converters as I do between the sample rate change. And nobody listening to the finished product which ends up back at 44.1 16bit (or worse still to compressed formats) can tell the difference between any of this stuff unless they hear it played back from the original 96K track, which doesn't happen much outside of studios.

Comparing this to black and white vs colour movies is a tremendous exaggeration of the difference. It's more like comparing a 1080p HDTV 120HZ to a 1080p HDTV 240HZ.

 

[Eric Hill - USA]

re: X32 Discussion

Its easy to set the channel strips press

Just because something is easy, doesn’t mean it’s intuitive. ~~:smile:

There's been enough discussion about how to program the scribble-strips. I think most people would agree that something needs to change in that regard. I've made one suggestion. (Put the scribble-strip setup on another tab.)

 

[Eric Hill - USA]

re: X32 Discussion

My aversion to 96kHz is that it pulls the development team away from other tasks which have the potential to have more useful benefit for users.

Very true!

It's not like Behringer has to build-in gimics to sell this board. I'm not saying 96k is a gimic. I'd just rather see the horsepower used elsewhere, and the development time elsewhere.

The X32 has a great feature set, at its price point. Nothing comes for free. There are only so many development hours in a day/week/month/year. If the development team is enlarged, that money has to come from somewhere. It either comes from the profit margin of another product, or it decreases the profit margin on the X32, or it causes an increase in the selling price.

For me, I would not want to see Behringer spend X man hours (translates into X dollars/euros) developing 96k at this point.

Eric H.

 

[Eric Hill - USA]

re: X32 Discussion

The dedicated channel Low Cut is 4th order, the cut filters in the 4/6 band EQ are 2nd order and you can use the matrix to double the slope

Thanks for that confirmation.

Eric H.

 

[Glenn Bucci]

re: X32 Discussion

Just because something is easy, doesn’t mean it’s intuitive. ~~:smile:

There's been enough discussion about how to program the scribble-strips. I think most people would agree that something needs to change in that regard. I've made one suggestion. (Put the scribble-strip setup on another tab.)

I think this is an excellent idea and one hopefully will be implemented in a firmware update. I will have a couple of volunteers at my church who will work the mixer once a month. Remembering all these menu options will be a chore. Having a dedicated tab for scribble strips would be just great!

 

[Silas Pradetto]

re: X32 Discussion

Very true!

It's not like Behringer has to build-in gimics to sell this board. I'm not saying 96k is a gimic. I'd just rather see the horsepower used elsewhere, and the development time elsewhere.

The X32 has a great feature set, at its price point. Nothing comes for free. There are only so many development hours in a day/week/month/year. If the development team is enlarged, that money has to come from somewhere. It either comes from the profit margin of another product, or it decreases the profit margin on the X32, or it causes an increase in the selling price.

For me, I would not want to see Behringer spend X man hours (translates into X dollars/euros) developing 96k at this point.

Eric H.

Since this is easily the cheapest digital board out there with any kind of decent feature set, users want the board to become everything to everyone. Unfortunately, even if the hardware is capable, by the time they do this it won't be any cheaper than a 'real' board.

I think the X32 should stick to being what it is, and everyone that wants the esoteric features should simply deal with the X32 the way it is, or buy a more appropriate product for their needs, rather than bombard Behringer with feature requests that don't make sense for the mass market.

 

[Steve Maksim]

re: X32 Discussion

There are only so many development hours in a day/week/month/year. If the development team is enlarged, that money has to come from somewhere. It either comes from the profit margin of another product, or it decreases the profit margin on the X32, or it causes an increase in the selling price.

Your reasoning assumes that their sales stay the same. Let's say profit on one console in $100. Assume it costs $50k to incorporate 96kHz operation (or some other feature). Then break-even point is selling 500 more consoles than they could otherwise; if additional sales are less than 500, then they lost money, and if they're more than 500, then the made money. This is basic economics.

 

[Silas Pradetto]

re: X32 Discussion

Your reasoning assumes that their sales stay the same. Let's say profit on one console in $100. Assume it costs $50k to incorporate 96kHz operation (or some other feature). Then break-even point is selling 500 more consoles than they could otherwise; if additional sales are less than 500, then they lost money, and if they're more than 500, then the made money. This is basic economics.

They aren't going to sell 500 more consoles because of 96k. They do not want to take away from their Midas sales; I bet they'll never implement 96k on this console.

Do you think the majority of buyers of this console even know what sample rate is? Most guys going into Guitar Center are just looking for a cheap board that works. They don't care about the underlying hardware.

 

[Tim McCulloch]

re: X32 Discussion

they aren't going to sell 500 more consoles because of 96k. They do not want to take away from their midas sales; i bet they'll never implement 96k on this console.

Do you think the majority of buyers of this console even know what sample rate is? most guys going into guitar center are just looking for a cheap board that works. They don't care about the underlying hardware.

Bingo! And that's not inherently a bad thing, either.

 

[Steve Maksim]

re: X32 Discussion

They aren't going to sell 500 more consoles because of 96k. They do not want to take away from their Midas sales; I bet they'll never implement 96k on this console.

You're not getting it. My post isn't about 96k, it's about how business works.

How about the Android app? People seemed excited about that. Let's say profit on one console in $100. Assume it costs $50k to program the Android. Then break-even point is selling 500 more consoles than they could otherwise; if additional sales are less than 500, then they lost money, and if they're more than 500, then the made money.

If Behringer has good business sense (and they seem to) then they won't care that you /aren't/ interested in the Android app or 96kHz operation or whatever other feature. They will care if enough people are interested in a particular feature to pay for the development (and marketing, etc.) and leave enough money left over to cover their risk and provide an acceptable profit. This is how business works.

Think about the X32 itself. If you're in pro audio to make your living, then it only makes sense to buy the X32 if you can make at least $2900 more with the X32 than you could without it. Otherwise it's not good business.

 

[Silas Pradetto]

re: X32 Discussion

You're not getting it. My post isn't about 96k, it's about how business works.

How about the Android app? People seemed excited about that. Let's say profit on one console in $100. Assume it costs $50k to program the Android. Then break-even point is selling 500 more consoles than they could otherwise; if additional sales are less than 500, then they lost money, and if they're more than 500, then the made money.

If Behringer has good business sense (and they seem to) then they won't care that you /aren't/ interested in the Android app or 96kHz operation or whatever other feature. They will care if enough people are interested in a particular feature to pay for the development (and marketing, etc.) and leave enough money left over to cover their risk and provide an acceptable profit. This is how business works.

Think about the X32 itself. If you're in pro audio to make your living, then it only makes sense to buy the X32 if you can make at least $2900 more with the X32 than you could without it. Otherwise it's not good business.

It's about ROI as much as it's about product placement. This console already has vastly more features than any $3000 console has ever had. They have other product lines to worry about; they're not going to put features and capability on the X32 to the point where it will compete with the $10k Pro1. It's just not going to happen.

I'm sure Behringer could put better preamps on their Xenyx series of consoles, under the premise that more studios would use them for recording. They might actually sell a few more, too. But trying to be something they're not just doesn't make any sense. There are other products for these other purposes.

The simple fact is that Behringer is in business because they make cheap stuff that works. That's not a bad thing, it's a good thing.

 

[Eric Eskam]

re: X32 Discussion

Every OS has it's annoyancies. This one is no different, and at the end of the day it's cosmetic rather than functional.
Worst case scenario would be to break out the label tape and a Sharpie to hark back to the good old days...!

I agree - I do think they need a way to help draw attention to the Utility button - it took me quite a bit of fiddling to figure out that it was a modifier instead of something in and of itself like the rest of the buttons to the side of the display. Perhaps if they had used function or ALT it might be more obvious. The good thing is, other than understanding the routing (which is more a lack of general mixing experience than a fault of the board) that was the only thing that really gave me pause - and as you said, once figured out it makes sense.

Having the full manual should close these few gaps for people.

At least with it being a digital board and it being so easy to save your config, the "penalty" for just going crazy and trying stuff out is pretty low! That and the board I was playing on wasn't mine