X16 Preview

[Peter Morris]

Re: X16 Preview

Really, every segment of "the market"? As wide and varied as the markets represented here may be I'll have to disagree, but then I don't expect any manufacturer to be able to offer a solution for every potential situation or application.

Analogue Desks --- Behringer ... Midas ....etc. Digital Desks - X16 iPad thingo MI desk --- X32 weekend warrior desk --- Pro1 --- Pro 2 C ---- Pro2 ---- Pro3 ---- Pro 6 ---- Pro 9 ---- XL8 .... what am I missing ???

 

[Caleb Dueck]

Re: X16 Preview

Analogue Desks --- Behringer ... Midas ....etc. Digital Desks - X16 iPad thingo MI desk --- X32 weekend warrior desk --- Pro1 --- Pro 2 C ---- Pro2 ---- Pro3 ---- Pro 6 ---- Pro 9 ---- XL8 .... what am I missing ???

I agree that every market segment (price point) for digital consoles is represented, without any glaring gaps where another brand has the market cornered. This doesn't mean that they are everything to all people, just that other than specific niches, there is no significant weakness compared to other manufacturers across the entire spectrum.

 

[Ron Kimball]

Re: X16 Preview

I find it interesting that yous guys would want a digital snake option on a board that you can just put sidestage and walk off with the control surface to anywhere you want? I have two iPads now and leave one docked in the DL1608 in monitor world for that usage and "just in case" the FOH surface (or router) goes teats up on me.

 

[Brad Weber]

Re: X16 Preview

I agree that every market segment (price point) for digital consoles is represented, without any glaring gaps where another brand has the market cornered. This doesn't mean that they are everything to all people, just that other than specific niches, there is no significant weakness compared to other manufacturers across the entire spectrum.

That may be the crux of it as "market segment" has little definition, look at the auto industry where just about everyone claims their models to be some kind of leader in their market segment by constantly defining new market segments. So it all comes down to how you define the market segments and not everyone may have the same delineations.

I find it interesting that yous guys would want a digital snake option on a board that you can just put sidestage and walk off with the control surface to anywhere you want? I have two iPads now and leave one docked in the DL1608 in monitor world for that usage and "just in case" the FOH surface (or router) goes teats up on me.

Well, you can walk off with the control surface as long as you don't mind not having the trims/gains available, not having any cueing/monitoring, not being able to have a local source, not having talkback and being dependent on a wireless network. That may work for your use but not necessarily for all applications.

I also think you may be overlooking some of the potential applications for digital snakes. For example, I work on many venues that in order to provide flexibility in setup want more physical inputs than they will actually use at any one time. Think of something like a small black box theater that might only need 16 channels of mixing but could benefit from having I/O spread all around the room to support different room configurations. Or a band or choral competition that could benefit from being able to have one group setting up while the other performs. Those situations traditionally involved physical patching or larger mixers but that can sometimes be replaced with digital snakes and virtual patching with the additional benefits of not only being able to easily save and recall different configuration setups but also possibly reducing the cabling and infrastructure involved.

 

[Ron Kimball]

Re: X16 Preview

Well, you can walk off with the control surface as long as you don't mind not having the trims/gains available

Yes, not having remotable/recallable trims is a bit of an inconvenience and but one thing that would add a lot of $$$ to the cost.

not having any cueing/monitoring

An IEM would work fine .

not being able to have a local source

If your router is an airport extreme you can use airplay to send audio from FOH to the router and patch that into a channel or two .

not having talkback

wireless mic

and being dependent on a wireless network

5GHz is pretty reliable but if that had problems you run up and dock the iPad or have a second one always docked like me 8)~~.

I also think you may be overlooking some of the potential applications for digital snakes. For example, I work on many venues that in order to provide flexibility in setup want more physical inputs than they will actually use at any one time. Think of something like a small black box theater that might only need 16 channels of mixing but could benefit from having I/O spread all around the room to support different room configurations. Or a band or choral competition that could benefit from being able to have one group setting up while the other performs. Those situations traditionally involved physical patching or larger mixers but that can sometimes be replaced with digital snakes and virtual patching with the additional benefits of not only being able to easily save and recall different configuration setups but also possibly reducing the cabling and infrastructure involved.

A couple of 6 or 8 channel stage snakes are handy but you're way above the $1000 mixer category here methinks . You could actually run two or more DL1608's and switch between them, maybe use 8 channel disconnects for the outs (DB25? yuck).

 

[Tim McCulloch]

Re: X16 Preview

Yes, not having remotable/recallable trims is a bit of an inconvenience and but one thing that would add a lot of $$$ to the cost.An IEM would work fine .If your router is an airport extreme you can use airplay to send audio from FOH to the router and patch that into a channel or two .wireless mic 5GHz is pretty reliable but if that had problems you run up and dock the iPad or have a second one always docked like me 8)~~.A couple of 6 or 8 channel stage snakes are handy but you're way above the $1000 mixer category here methinks . You could actually run two or more DL1608's and switch between them, maybe use 8 channel disconnects for the outs (DB25? yuck).

Adding even the cheapest IEM and wireless mic for PFL and TB adds another $600-$1000 to the cost. Add in the inherent issues with 2.4GHz and eventual device saturation of 5Ghz and this ceases to be a enticement beyond the relative novelty of not being tethered to the mixer. Oh, wait, I forgot the $500 for an iPad, too. So this package comes up to the price of an X32... "but it's wireless..."

As Bill the Cat would say, "Pffffffft."

 

[Ron Kimball]

Re: X16 Preview

Adding even the cheapest IEM and wireless mic for PFL and TB adds another $600-$1000 to the cost. Add in the inherent issues with 2.4GHz and eventual device saturation of 5Ghz and this ceases to be a enticement beyond the relative novelty of not being tethered to the mixer. Oh, wait, I forgot the $500 for an iPad, too. So this package comes up to the price of an X32... "but it's wireless..." As Bill the Cat would say, "Pffffffft."

I already have a Galaxy AS900 IEM ($175 new) and a Nady wireless mic ($50 used) that I could use (the former from playing in an all IEM band and the latter usually used for announcements). I don't usually deal with stoopid loud bands or set up FOH more than 50 feet out so just walking up to them and/or returning to monitor world works . If I'm going to solo something to tweak it or look for that weird noise doing it from monitor world also doesn't bother me. iPad 2's are still being sold for $400 new from Apple. No matter what mixer you buy you'll probably need one to mix wirelessly. Most of the private parties I do have to be mixed sidestage unless you have wireless .

You also have to understand that my entire rig fits in a Scion Xa hatchback - RCF 310a mains, TH-Mini subs, 8 coaxial monitors, a couple B208D (for micstand mount monitors, center fills, etc) three amps (two IPR1600 and one IPR3000), etc. No room for an X32 LOL.

 

[bruce lomasky]

Re: X16 Preview

Am I the only one who likes the idea of an IPAD for the control? I am not concerned about newer versions of the IPad. I assume the Behringer will keep coming out with updated programs. The fact I can mix from anywhere!, adjust the sound from anywhere, no need for a snake (like to travel as light as possible), the fact that the software can continuously be updated and the understanding that the mechanicals (motorized faders, switches, etc. ) are the most costly part of any mixer (once the design costs have been amortized). Of course, this all boils down to how GOOD of an IPad program is produced. I would hope they look at the Prosonus / Mackie / Line 6 and take good features then add their own customization to make this rock.

bruce

 

[Chuck Simon]

Re: X16 Preview

Adding even the cheapest IEM and wireless mic for PFL and TB adds another $600-$1000 to the cost. Add in the inherent issues with 2.4GHz and eventual device saturation of 5Ghz and this ceases to be a enticement beyond the relative novelty of not being tethered to the mixer. Oh, wait, I forgot the $500 for an iPad, too. So this package comes up to the price of an X32... "but it's wireless..."

As Bill the Cat would say, "Pffffffft."

But you still will have to buy all that stuff if you want to use an X32 wirelessly. But that's not the point. The X16 and Mackie are geared for a usage different than yours and it is a perfect fit for others. I wish more here would consider that concept before they get so critical of other people's choices!

 

[Ron Kimball]

Re: X16 Preview

Am I the only one who likes the idea of an IPAD for the control?

No, but perhaps the only one that didn't read all the post in the thread before posting .

 

[Tim McCulloch]

Re: X16 Preview

But you still will have to buy all that stuff if you want to use an X32 wirelessly. But that's not the point. The X16 and Mackie are geared for a usage different than yours and it is a perfect fit for others. I wish more here would consider that concept before they get so critical of other people's choices!

My point is that to utilize the x16 in a way that allows us to make it work the way we're used to adds more expense.. The ipad is not an option, it's necessary to use the mixer, so add another $400. If one views wireless operation as a necessity, then it is wise to have the right tools for mission critical work. Perhaps your clients are more forgiving or your mixing techniques more amenable to using this platform, and I have no problem with you doing so; for our business and 99% of our clients it won't fly.

 

[Ron Kimball]

Re: X16 Preview

If one views wireless operation as a necessity, then it is wise to have the right tools for mission critical work.

What "tools" are you thinking of that would be more bullet-proof for wireless operation?

 

[Chuck Simon]

Re: X16 Preview

My point is that to utilize the x16 in a way that allows us to make it work the way we're used to adds more expense.. The ipad is not an option, it's necessary to use the mixer, so add another $400. If one views wireless operation as a necessity, then it is wise to have the right tools for mission critical work. Perhaps your clients are more forgiving or your mixing techniques more amenable to using this platform, and I have no problem with you doing so; for our business and 99% of our clients it won't fly.

It really wouldn't work for me either, but there is a segment out there that will find it very useful. Back when I was a full time musician running my own sound, I would have killed for something like that! And, you should know many musicians already have an iPad.

 

[Eric Cagle]

Re: X16 Preview

You know the product is cool for what it is, especially at that price point. It does look like the Mackie DL1608 though, which is here now and priced around $1000 US. It occurred to me that alot of us are all spoiled with the game changing X32 and many don't want the new product to be the X16 of "our" X series which we are now quite fond of and attached to. The X32 thread has shattered all records on this forum and has helped convince many of us, including myself, to buy one or more of them. It is so interesting that so much of the attitude on this forum has gone from "I won't use anything Behringer" to "Thou shalt not produce anything in the X series that is unworthy of our beloved X32." My oh my how times have changed.

Now I can whine as well. The concept is nice for what it is but give us a real (cut down X32) X16 or a rackmount X24 so I can replace my MixWizard and effects rack C-rig and go wireless. I will gladly pay an extra $500 or so if it can be done. Just a control surface for the S16 would do it. I would pay the $1000 and buy the S16 gladly. Make it 2 or 3 layers and and expandable to 2 or 3 S16's and that would be an amazing system.

 

[Ron Kimball]

Re: X16 Preview

Just a control surface for the S16 would do it. I would pay the $1000 and buy the S16 gladly. Make it 2 or 3 layers and and expandable to 2 or 3 S16's and that would be an amazing system.

iLive killer .

 

[Don Boomer]

Re: X16 Preview

they are not violating either of our written rules regarding content and manufacturer participation.

So can everyone play too?

 

[Ron Kimball]

Re: X16 Preview

So can everyone play too?

One "difference" is that Behringer has no "official" forum while Line6 and Mackie do:
Community: Space: StageScape M20d Mixer Community Support
DL1608 - Mackie Forums
OTOH that's really a -1 to Behringer so I don't see why they should be allowed here because of that vs disallowing other similar reps. The StageScape is another very interesting "touchscreen centric" mixer but may not have much interest here if the reaction to the DL1608 and X16 is any gauge? But if you want to leak the StageScape 2 I'm all for it . Or send me a Line6 StageScape and I'll write all about it . Same offer to Uli . I have a Mackie DL1608 and Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL in that "space" so far.

 

[Eric Valenzuela]

Re: X16 Preview

I don't recall saying I wanted those features for $1000.00. I do recall uli presenting a mock up of a product which I can only assume he wishes to sell to a junior/varsity crowd... If he is looking for a Dj, or small church dollar then I think he's asked the wrong group. I also think he is tarnishing the accomplishment he's done with the x32 by releasing yet another close representation of another original idea and branding it in the same line. It's been said more elequantly by others here, so that's all I got to say about that - f gump

I think Uli at least tried to ask the correct group. This is the Junior Varsity forum.

 

[Bennett Prescott]

Re: X16 Preview

So can everyone play too?

Don,

Behringer is not special in this regard. As long as you are willing to engage the community I welcome Line 6's participation in these forums.

 

[Ron Kimball]

Re: X16 Preview

I think Uli at least tried to ask the correct group. This is the Junior Varsity forum.

I keep lobbying for a "Little League" forum here LOL . If it isn't suitable for rental or a visiting BE's use but only for purchase by an end user maybe it belongs there? Nobody sane is gonna rent out a DL1608 or StageScape .