X16 Preview

Re: X16 Preview

I'm in agreement with the majority here who would like real tactile controls with iPad stuff as a bonus rather than it being the only way to control.

There is a market for a cut down x32. Having bought an x32 and facing the challenge of training a team of 12 volunteers on its use I would want the smaller mixer to feel the same. Our church has a hall that is used for many community activities as well as services. Currently we use a small format analog console but it Will need replacing soon. I'm sorry to say that it would be very hard to secure an iPad in this general purpose space.

I have a DDX3216 and have had many variants of Yamaha sf digital desks. The rack mount format is popular for good reasons. My DDX rack often holds everything I need for an event (desk, extra ada, processing, amps, PC for recording) though much of this can now be done with less equipment.

Finally, if you already have a video edit/production room/suite/van which has cut out for a rack mixer... why not.

Short version:
x32 compact - x32 but squeezed into rack format.
I would buy one for me and one for the church hall.

x16 pro - as above but with half of the analog I/o but keep aes 50
I would buy this and an x16 if the x32 compact wasn't available.

Namm 2013 announcement means no delivery until august 2013 or even later I would think.

Alan
 
Re: X16 Preview

Agreed that it looks more like it should be an X1608i (or Xi16, or Xi1608) with the X16 being a 16 channel rackmountable version of the X32, but that puts things in the crosshairs of Mackie and Yamaha for the way that they've named their desks.
Mind you, I can't think of a practical use for the X16 iPad desk.
A rackmounted 16 channel version of the X32? Now you're talking.

Has anyone thought about what Behringer would call a 16 channel rackmounted version of the X32, given that X16 is now taken...?

:D~:-D~:grin:

Karl.
 
Re: X16 Preview

I think they should re-brand the Ipad X16 to the X16DS ( door stop) lol

As per your question though X16R or XR16

I still believe iX16 is the best name for it, allthough I observe that miX16 are getting some votes.
Someone suggested that Apple owns i<Everything>, but I'm sure they have no claim on anything beyond iPxx

BTW, and this is for Uli;
Could you add a USB port on top of the unit that will support a USB wifi adapter?
 
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Re: X16 Preview

Mind you, I can't think of a practical use for the X16 iPad desk.

i've actually been thinking about this a lot, and it's a cool little unit.

Huh?

First of all, chuck that iPad thing in the bin and forget it ever existed. Which is kinda funny seeing how I am writing this on an iPad, but lets ignore that for a minute.

So, what does that leave us with? We have a rack mount 16 in 8 out audio processing thing with an Ethernet control port with an open, published protocol. For a thousand bucks. Ok, it doesn't have quite the mix and match capabilities of a Soundweb or Symnet or Rane box, (or network of boxes) nor the room combining and automix of the Lectrosonics, but not all applications require these features. If what you need is to combine and distribute audio in a simple application, the miX16 could be the answer.

If only (HINT HINT PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT) it had an AES port it cold be a little part of something bigger...
 
Re: X16 Preview

What we need is 2 versions of the S16 Snake. A normal S16 and a special SX16. The SX16 would have all the features of the S16 but with mixer hardware built in (like the A+H Mixracks). All they would need to add is the required processing in the box. You could then use the AES50 ports to expand the system so with each extrs SX16 you would get the hardware and processing for an extra 16 channels.
This could then be controlled either with a tablet style device or some form of control surface. A way to use the BCR/BCF series to control it could create a very affordable digital mixing system.

Or even change the S16 so that it now has an upgrade card slot with a card that is in essence a digital mixing card. The analog electronics for the ins/outs are already in the box and I should't have thought that a digital mixing addon card would need to be that big, as it would only need some DSP, memory and an ethernet interface/MIDI for remote control.
 
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Re: X16 Preview

What i would love to see out of a rackmountable mixer is the x16pro having only a few preamps/inputs for stuff you would need at foh for things like music playback, talkback mic etc, (also firewire usb) then using the s16 as the main stage preamps and be in a package under $2000 range i would order 1 today and 2 next week.

Cant wait for Namm this winter
 
Re: X16 Preview

Ugh.. please no. ...on several fronts.

Fundamentally I agree - I would much rather see an "x16" that is a smaller version of the X32 with physical control surfaces. But I think some of your criticisms of the iPad are a little over the top.

Apple has targeted it as a personal device tied to a personal account, so its not good for sharing.

Your seriously telling me that a piece of equipment integral for the operation of another piece of equipment wouldn't be permanently associated with it? How much sharing would you really be doing with the iPad needed for your mixer? And even if you do - there is more than likely only one app needed to run the mixer. How does that require profiles (not that I don't think profiles are sorely missing from iOS, but I fail to see it as a liability for this use case).

Apple has a long history of changing the dimensions and connectors for all of their computers and devices every other model (and even the software interfaces).

This is the statement that pushed me to respond. What rubbish!

The iPod 30 pin dock connector is over 10 years old! When I can walk into just about any store and see just as many iPod connector only chargers as USB chargers, your fears of instability are clearly and completely unfounded. As long as their console has a USB port and you can choose the cable, it's magically compatible with the iPads with 30 pin dock connectors, and all devices going forward that have the (long overdue!) lightning connector.

Apple updates their models, until recently, on an annual basis. Which is generally derided as being "too slow" when manufacturers for other platforms literally pump out new iterations weekly. Often with vendor specific and proprietary software on each model. Products are routinely outright abandoned or don't get updates for YEARS (*cough* POS work provided Droid Bionic *cough*).

Again, the springboard app interface hasn't change much since the original groundbreaking iOS release - what five, six years ago? This is regularly derided as Apple "loosing their edge" and being stale, yet for some reason your convinced they are shifty and inconsistent? And I have no doubt that part of the reason it took forever for Verizon to get the iPhone is Apple wouldn't let them bastardize it to timbuktu and back like they do every other phone they push.

Apple is the paragon of stability compared to the rest of the industry!

So you can guarantee that this board won't work with new iPads 2 years from now.

That's a valid question. A more valid one for me is the opposite of your concern. Will they guarantee it will work with my current iPad (probably my iPad one that was replaced by my iPad 3) for a significant amount of time and that some new feature or release wont REQUIRE me to update to a newer iPad? And if a new version requires a new iPad, will it be a separate app with the old app still being maintained in the app store for those of us with older devices and who possibly don't care about the new features if it means having to buy a new iPad?

And you've now made the core of your system something who's stability you don't control. You might as well make the x16 a PC software mixer, because you have just as much control over the OS and bugs that creep in as you would on a PC. (yes -- I've had my ipad crash due to badly written apps).

I think this is far less an issue than on traditional computers. Many of the problems I have seen happen due to bad code/poor programming. Pretty much any EA iOS game, for example :p

For me it's aesthetics - I'd much rather have physical sliders and buttons/knobs that I can reach for and adjust blind than having to fumble and shift focus to a touch screen.

BMW or Cadillac - I forget who - has a really annoying commercial out right now that talks about tablets and touch being modern and that "isn't it time that cars catch up" or some other nonsense - absolutely not! The last thing I want to do in a car is having to stop looking at the road and fuss with a touchscreen to adjust the temperature or do something routine. That's just bad design - changing something for the sake of changing it without having a valid, non-marketing, reason for the change. It actually makes usability worse!

Keep your ipad interaction as a remote -- something that is not physically connected and not in the signal path. That way you can adjust to their new models with software changes... and when Apple pulls the rug out from under you, you can connect to other devices too. No way I'd pay even $500 for a board tied to a sure-to-become-obsolete physical device.

Again, overall I agree with you but I think your "concern" is over the top and your exaggerating to prove your point (which I also don't think you need to do and weakens your argument instead of helping).

It'd be like buying a board that only works with some other company's microphone or amps. Hardware lock-in is really something that should be avoided.

I think you aren't giving them enough credit. If they stick with USB and the dock connector isn't built in (and with the recent switch by Apple from the 30 pin to lightning, I doubt they will build in) then not only will they potentially cover anything Apple produces, but should be able to support Android, Microsoft and whatever else is out there if they decide to. Or if they continue to publish specifications as they have been with OSC and MIDI, then someone else who really feels compelled to can write their own app. There are some pro's to this approach - it's not all cons.

Not that I'm still interested myself either :) But let's be reasonable here....

The devices should be related. An X16 should be a smaller version of the X32.

On this I heartily agree. I want physical control surfaces and I'm willing to pay for them!

I have no problem with them making this product - there are plenty of people for whom it will no doubt appeal to; just not me. But I do agree strongly with you and others it doesn't deserve the name x16.
 
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Re: X16 Preview

A couple more comments, and reiterating some old ones ;)~;-)~:wink:

Now that apple has released the iPad Mini, it would probably be a good idea to include a bezel insert that would accomodate this new variation.

I'm still not the wiser on whether the bezel has an iPad plug, so the mixer can actually be operated without a router, I'm assuming it has. Will the plug in that case also provide charging and other docking functions for the iPad?
 
Re: X16 Preview

While i still stand behind what i said about having an x16pro, im not against the X16. However to consider it over a studiolive 16.4.2 for my use, it needs to be expandable or maybe to be expanded into. Have the x16 be the preamp to bring the X32 to 48 chan (kinda like an s16)
I really hope we find out by/at namm what and when will be coming out otherwise it looks like i will have to pick up something else.
 
Re: X16 Preview

Your seriously telling me that a piece of equipment integral for the operation of another piece of equipment wouldn't be permanently associated with it? How much sharing would you really be doing with the iPad needed for your mixer? And even if you do - there is more than likely only one app needed to run the mixer. How does that require profiles (not that I don't think profiles are sorely missing from iOS, but I fail to see it as a liability for this use case).
The counterpoint sems to be that if an iPad is so integral to the operation then why do the manufacturers not offer the option to purchase the mixer as a functioning system including the iPad? It seems to be the manufacturers preesnting the iPad as not being an integral component and promoting people using their personal iPads/iPods/iPhones, especially when comparing the related cost to more traditional options.

Such mixers also create new situtaions when you think about them from the perspective of a dealer or Contractor providing a system for a church, club, auditorium, etc. How do they provide a functioning system and a warranty on the system installation? Is a venue really going to hand the iPad that is required for a functioning system to some drugged out flake as Mackie seems to suggest and thus that many bands may expect?

It essentially comes down to these devices often seeming much more appropriate as an individual's personal mixer rather than some venue's or entitiy's mixer and if used in the latter scenrios may be best to do so with an iPad permanently docked.
 
Re: X16 Preview

I will start this by saying I have a problem with calling what has been announced an X16.

I just got to play with the Mackie DL1608 and I just got to play with the XiControl on an iPad for the X32. I posted my feeling about that in 2 different threads. Based on that if Behringer comes out with a small unit that is basically in functionality half of an X32 with the control that the XiControl gives you I think it will be great. BUT you need to lose the manual trims and put some more input and outputs on it. Just take everything that is on an X32 and make sure you have half of it on what ever this new device is called. And as some have said it doesn’t need to be in the same format as the DL1608 you can just put it in a rack unit. I would love to see the WiFi built into it with a connector for an antenna so you can put the antenna above peoples heads.