X16 Preview

Re: X16 Preview

Ron Kimball said:
I have a DL1608 and I'd sure not want Behringer to copy it's deficiencies! I too would much prefer that it be rackmount.
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I don't get why people are crying about the Ipad. it is super stable, allows for extremely easy updates (meaning faster bug fixes and improvements) and as far as I know, there have been multiple versions of Ipad with only 1 change to the doc connector.

personally, I LOVE my DL and there are TON of people who love it too so if a competitor can create a better version of a winner, why not? I love the idea of the USB in/out... very nice... can't wait to see it.
 
Re: X16 Preview

Just seems to be a lock-in with apple - maybe logic will be the only daw it works with!!!!!!!!!!!!!? - if dependent upon a tablet then it needs to encompass more than the ipad as an option.
What would be better is an x16 ans s16 combination (i.e) no preamps on the x16 with a touch screen - even a revamped x32 along these lines.

........as a thought if it takes off - within a few years or even less everyone ( well a lot of people) will have a touch screen windows 8 ( or whatever version by then) latptop -transformer/swivel (for want of a better description) - a bit heavier but lots of competition re price!
 
Re: X16 Preview

Darrn Ward said:
I don't get why people are crying about the Ipad. it is super stable, allows for extremely easy updates (meaning faster bug fixes and improvements) and as far as I know, there have been multiple versions of Ipad with only 1 change to the doc connector.
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The iPad is fine if you want to waste money on and be locked in to over priced hardware that can only run what software Apple decides you can run. Personally, I like to get real value for my money and have choices in both hardware and software.
 
Re: X16 Preview

Nick Davis said:
Just seems to be a lock-in with apple - maybe logic will be the only daw it works with!!!!!!!!!!!!!? - if dependent upon a tablet then it needs to encompass more than the ipad as an option.
What would be better is an x16 ans s16 combination (i.e) no preamps on the x16 with a touch screen - even a revamped x32 along these lines.

........as a thought if it takes off - within a few years or even less everyone ( well a lot of people) will have a touch screen windows 8 ( or whatever version by then) latptop -transformer/swivel (for want of a better description) - a bit heavier but lots of competition re price!
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if behringer offered their own tablet that was as good as an ipad for the price of an ipad would you buy it? would you then complain about being "locked in" to beheringer?
I don't get all the griping.. a $3-400 super small wifi tablet that can control your sound system is A-mazing! I don't care what name is on it. it's worth the price even if you have to buy a dedicated unit just for your mixer.

almost every piece of hardware you buy these days will have you 'locked in' in one way or another. behringer, mackie, and others are doing you a favor by not including the touch screen or tablet built into their product (which would undoubtedly cost more than their product plus the aftermarket tablet) and instead saying that you can buy the accompanying piece of hardware that will also be useful for other things, and not be locked into it just being a mixer tablet.

Jason
 
Jason Lavoie said:
if behringer offered their own tablet that was as good as an ipad for the price of an ipad would you buy it? would you then complain about being "locked in" to beheringer?
I don't get all the griping.. a $3-400 super small wifi tablet that can control your sound system is A-mazing! I don't care what name is on it. it's worth the price even if you have to buy a dedicated unit just for your mixer.

almost every piece of hardware you buy these days will have you 'locked in' in one way or another. behringer, mackie, and others are doing you a favor by not including the touch screen or tablet built into their product (which would undoubtedly cost more than their product plus the aftermarket tablet) and instead saying that you can buy the accompanying piece of hardware that will also be useful for other things, and not be locked into it just being a mixer tablet.

Jason
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Just fyi, you can pick up Android tablets that do the same thing for less than $100, they just need developer support. Apple is just lining their pockets, which is why I don't own anything Apple.

Sent from my DROID RAZR
 
Re: X16 Preview

Silas Pradetto said:
Just fyi, you can pick up Android tablets that do the same thing for less than $100, they just need developer support. Apple is just lining their pockets, which is why I don't own anything Apple.

Sent from my DROID RAZR
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they DON't do the same thing though.. every single app that comes out is followed by people whining that there's no android version.
they may be capable hardware wise, but they literally can't do the same thing (yet).
SO, for the task at hand, the ipad is still a great value.
an ipad plus a wall-mount frame is still cheaper and better than a 10" crestron panel. (just as another example)

Jason
 
Re: X16 Preview

Jason Lavoie said:
they DON't do the same thing though.. every single app that comes out is followed by people whining that there's no android version.
they may be capable hardware wise, but they literally can't do the same thing (yet).
SO, for the task at hand, the ipad is still a great value.
an ipad plus a wall-mount frame is still cheaper and better than a 10" crestron panel. (just as another example)

Jason
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LIKE LIKE LIKE........ Android folks, get used to the silver medal...... everytime ;p
 
Re: X16 Preview

Behringer already needs to redesign this, as does Mackie. The new ipads use the Thunderbolt connector, not the old connector anymore. The product is already obsolete before it's even been released, and who's to say that things won't change again soon?

This is why I don't support products that ONLY run with an ipad.



Evan
 
Re: X16 Preview

Tim McCulloch said:
I don't care if it runs OS/2, BEOS or Unix, so long as it's not Apple.
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Which I never understood. If the tool does the job you need who cares if it's from Microsoft, IBM, Walmart or Apple? I've seen plenty of anti-Behringer snobs change their tone after actually using and hearing an X32.

I hope your employer or customers understand your willing to potentially cost them money or loss of functionality due to some irrational dislike for a company :roll:
 
Re: X16 Preview

Evan Kirkendall said:
Behringer already needs to redesign this, as does Mackie.
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Er, I don't know about the Mackie, but the X16 sports a USB port. Funny - you can swap out a USB to 30 pin dock connector cable for a USB to lightning connector cable in less than two seconds.

This is why I don't support products that ONLY run with an ipad.
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If that's your main reason, it's a pretty silly one given the triviality in overcoming your "obstacle".

And let's look at how long Apple has supported the 30 pin dock connector (over 10 years) vs. what are we on - the fourth or fifth major iteration of USB connectors, and at least the third version of "micro USB" - I have a bin full of Micro USB cables and there are at least four different styles - three of which are pretty widespread in use - let alone the proprietary ones from early Bluetooth headsets and others that were manufacturer specific (motorola being the worst) that I'm not even throwing into the mix.

Finally, Behringer has been pretty open with the parts of OSC that they use for the consoles. If Android is this big burning desire then that means people should be willing to pay for it, right? So why hasn't someone felt compelled to step up and fill the gap and reap the reward? I mean Android is open and open source is all about scratching your itch, right? So this shouldn't even be an issue, no?

Then again given the miserable conversion rate for Android owners vs. iOS owners in app sales, I understand why no one has bothered to step in and fill the gap.
 
Re: X16 Preview

Richard Pyne said:
The iPad is fine if you want to waste money on and be locked in to over priced hardware that can only run what software Apple decides you can run.
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Hmm, funny - I have a work-provided Android phone that has apps on it - Amazon music streaming and others - that can not be uninstalled because they are part of the base OS. Worse yet, they run in the background. Chewing up battery. I will NEVER use them, but I can't get rid of them.

Unless i root my Android phone.

Which, I can do the same on my iPhone - it's just called jailbraking. So let's just end the charade here - neither Android or iOS is as "open" as people are trying to make them out to be. Big surprise - they are both fostered from companies that are trying to make money.

Personally, I like to get real value for my money and have choices in both hardware and software.
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For me real value is being able to use a device and not having to think about managing it. I only got decent battery life on my Android device after I did some research, found a task manager application that will aggressively kill tasks that I will never use but can't uninstall unless I root my phone. Home screen notifications are non-existant compared to iOS, and all the "solutions" that people for years told me were superior to iOS are just "fake" lock screen's - hardly a secure solution. You can get total control over the real lock screen - if you root your phone. Big deal - I can jailbreak my iOS devices and get the same damn thing.

So fell superior for being "Apple Free" - but it makes about as much sense to me as the idiotic people who boycott Walmart.

And at the end of the day, companies like Behringer support the iPad first for two reasons:
1) In tablets especially, it dominates in sheer numbers
2) There are two screen resolutions and two major hardware platforms (iPad1 vs. the newer ones) they have to target

The volume simply isn't there for Android tablets, and there are a plethora of hardware configurations that exponentially increase development time. I don't doubt that at some time they won't target at least one or two Android tablets like the Nexus, but I wouldn't expect it soon. They are still trying to get the firmware baked, and the PC and iOS apps feature complete.

And lest I come off as totally anti-Android, I would much rather buy an at cost Nexus or below cost Amazon Kindle and root it and leave it with the console than an iPad - so I would happily use an Android app if they released one. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for it any time soon because I also understand how market's and businesses work and I have no religious platform biases one way or the other to get in the way of logic or reason.
 
Re: X16 Preview

Our customers aren't requesting this capability, in fact they reject it. I have a 3 page email from a national act that played a festival we unsuccessfully bid on. The provider basically said "sure, yeah, right... you'll get an M7 or Venue SC48 for FOH."

Promise her anything but give her Agpege....

When the act arrived the TD found a Studio Live at side stage, with an iPad.

Your customer base and clients are probably very different from most of ours. Our clients don't have a hissy fit because we run snakes or that the featured entertainers expect an FOH console to be in the house. We don't do bar gigs for the most part (boss will briefcase a bar gig as a favor to old musician friends), we don't do weddings, we don't do a lot of stuff where the mere suggestion of technical gear makes a client apoplectic.

FWIW, I've used both M7 and VENUE consoles with a Motion Computing tablet using VPN (purchased for $300 on fleabay). Not for mixing the show, but for setup and tuning. And for that, I don't need $400 of Gee Whiz, I have an iPad tacked onto the price.
 
Re: X16 Preview

Tim McCulloch said:
FWIW, I've used both M7 and VENUE consoles with a Motion Computing tablet using VPN (purchased for $300 on fleabay). Not for mixing the show, but for setup and tuning. And for that, I don't need $400 of Gee Whiz, I have an iPad tacked onto the price.
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So Tim, it's OK to tack on a $300 tablet, but not a $400 tablet? If you shop on fleabay you can get an iPad with 64GB, WiFi, and 3G cellular for under $300. Running windows or Mac based software on a tablet is not a substitute for running software designed to run on a tablet. In Windows land that is pretty much only the Lake controllers, in Mac land it is iPad apps. Like you used to say, but the platform that runs the apps you want to run.

Mac
 
Re: X16 Preview

Darrn Ward said:
I don't get why people are crying about the Ipad. it is super stable, allows for extremely easy updates (meaning faster bug fixes and improvements) and as far as I know, there have been multiple versions of Ipad with only 1 change to the doc connector.
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My $0.02 worth..

I like real knobs, buttons and faders. Others may feel differently but I have yet to find a 'virtual' pot that I can work with comfortably. And I like being able to find or keep my hand on a control by feel. To me a virtual work surface results in too much 'heads down' mixing.

Maybe someone already has a tablet PC or a competing tablet product or simply doesn't like Apple, but where a tablet device is required to have a functional mixer then not having options for the tablet devices can be a factor in some cases.

If something is necessary for a product to function then it should be part of the product or at least available as an option. A mixer that requires an iPad and/or an external network to function at even a basic level should at least offer the option of a package that includes all of the requisite components. There should be some way to purchase a functional 'mixer' from a single source that actually does all the things claimed and provides a single point of responsibility and support. If you can't mix without some other device then it is not a mixer, it is an audio interface.

Situations where you own the mixer and are the primary or only operator can differ from situations where the mixer belongs to a group or venue and there is no assigned operator or multiple potential operators and I believe that is particularly releveant with iPad based mixers and especially where the iPad is used wirelessly. If you were a club and had a DL1608 would you really hand the related iPad to some hallucinating oddball BE that sticks their head in the urinal and flushes?
 
Re: X16 Preview

It looks like the X16 isn't going to be the product most of us will be wanting, and that is fine, most of the products in the Behringer inventory is absent from this particular group's wishlist. The X32/S16 crowd will not be buying this product because it doesn't integrate with our current stuff in any meaningfull way. Hopefully there will be other stuff on offer that meets our needs and wants and integrates better with our current and future investments.
 
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